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Old 09-04-2019, 01:44 PM
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Default Catholic View of Church History



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This chart is the Catholic take on church history showing when others parted;
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:25 PM
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This chart is the Catholic take on church history showing when others parted;
Orthodox did not change a thing from the point of view of true Catholic history. How can they be accused that they change anything? If one changes something then he accuses the other one (that did not change a thing) of what he just did how do you call the first one? double whammy bad.

So first correction of this chart would be concerning the Orthodox. We did not change a thing. We are not the ones that went against our own signature given at the Third Ecumenical Council.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:54 PM
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EddieT, Where did you get this chart? I have not seen it.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:03 PM
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This is always a tricky discussion
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:16 PM
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EddieT, Where did you get this chart? I have not seen it.
From this very informational book in PDF:

https://douglawrence.files.wordpress...thsbeliefs.pdf
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:28 PM
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From this very informational book in PDF:

https://douglawrence.files.wordpress...thsbeliefs.pdf
Well this book is wrong. Orthodox DID NOT Broke from the Catholics. Unless you suspend simple Logic as I describe it in my post above (Post#2). So that should give you pause to use this book, because it lacks simple logic.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:41 PM
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Well this book is wrong. Orthodox DID NOT Broke from the Catholics. Unless you suspend simple Logic as I describe it in my post above (Post#2). So that should give you pause to use this book, because it lacks simple logic.
I don't agree with the origin of the church as indicated. The first congregations were decidedly Jewish, were not headed by Peter and what is called the church today is an offspring of a congregation in Rome. In fact Sha'ul was partly (Ch 11) trying to straighten out that congregation with respect to the Jews when he wrote Romans . Note that the letter was not addressed to Peter and Sha'ul introduced himself.
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Old 09-05-2019, 06:44 AM
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I don't agree with the origin of the church as indicated. The first congregations were decidedly Jewish, were not headed by Peter and what is called the church today is an offspring of a congregation in Rome. In fact Sha'ul was partly (Ch 11) trying to straighten out that congregation with respect to the Jews when he wrote Romans . Note that the letter was not addressed to Peter and Sha'ul introduced himself.
Agreed, I had no idea there was disagreement on the first Church in Jerusalem and the obvious fact they were Jewish. Not in Rome and by Romans. That came much later.

I always thought there was some credible evidence Peter was in Rome, then to discover there is NO good evidence Peter ever stepped foot in Rome.
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:34 AM
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I see no good from threads like this
Purposefully antagonizing members of a denomination over and over
Are you not convicted to promote what you see fit ?????
As opposed to gratitious antagonism using low hanging fruit ?????

The chart is most intetesting in organizing a lot of data

Seems like compensation for having a tiny appendage

I agree with the facts, not the method

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Old 09-05-2019, 07:55 AM
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The schism between orthodox and Catholic is super-stupid in my opinion

Does it really matter if the Holy Spirit emminates solely from God or from God and Jesus ?

There is more to the split, but Rome is so far superior historically to the present and continuing, the chart in post #1 is the only sane way to decipher all this history and baggage.

There is no good reason for Catholic and Orthodox not to be in full communion
But for petty, tiny, insignificant long forgotten issues

Stiff-necked fools on both sides.

But, Rome has had its arms open for a long, long time, so the ball is in the Orthodox's court

It would be the single greatest advance The Church could make, i.e. rapprochement and full communion

We are all worse off for it

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Old 09-05-2019, 09:12 AM
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The schism between orthodos and Catholic is super-stupid in my opinion

There is no good reason for Catholic and Orthodox not to be in full communion
But for petty, tiny, insignificant long forgotten issues

Stiff-necked fools on both sides.

But, Rome has had its arms open for a long, long time, so the ball is in the Orthodox's court

It would be the single greatest advance The Church could nake, i.e. rapprochement and full communion

We are all worse off for it
Well said!

I've never knew much about the big divorce until I heard more of the specifics from posters around here. It does appear petty, silly and counter productive. Seems if the big-ego types were removed and more sensible people were involved they could reunite. Ego can be a stubborn task master.

It does appear the Catholics are the more willing party and the reasonable adults in the room. Even enduring some insults like being called the first Protestant Church which appears to be the most stinging insult the EOC could think of.

At least that's my impressions which will no doubt be called wrong.
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Old 09-05-2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
The schism between orthodox and Catholic is super-stupid in my opinion

Does it really matter if the Holy Spirit emminates solely from God or from God and Jesus ?

There is more to the split, but Rome is so far superior historically to the present and continuing, the chart in post #1 is the only sane way to decipher all this history and baggage.

There is no good reason for Catholic and Orthodox not to be in full communion
But for petty, tiny, insignificant long forgotten issues

Stiff-necked fools on both sides.

But, Rome has had its arms open for a long, long time, so the ball is in the Orthodox's court

It would be the single greatest advance The Church could make, i.e. rapprochement and full communion

We are all worse off for it
If things don't count as much then the ball is in Catholic court since what they changed once they can change again (back to the original), no? So it is logical to believe that the Catholics should go back to drawing board on how to get the Orthodox to be in union with them. Certainly not by changing things and then ask the Orthodox to change.

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Well said!

I've never knew much about the big divorce until I heard more of the specifics from posters around here. It does appear petty, silly and counter productive. Seems if the big-ego types were removed and more sensible people were involved they could reunite. Ego can be a stubborn task master.

It does appear the Catholics are the more willing party and the reasonable adults in the room. Even enduring some insults like being called the first Protestant Church which appears to be the most stinging insult the EOC could think of.

At least that's my impressions which will no doubt be called wrong.
Your impression is wrong. See above why. And coming from a Protestant is double standard as well if you know what I mean.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:42 PM
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Your impression is wrong
Could be, it's why I called it my impression.

You have to admit the Catholics do seem to be the adults in the conversation. They tend to take the high road. Just read the thread on this issue a while back.
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Old 09-05-2019, 05:44 PM
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If things don't count as much then the ball is in Catholic court since what they changed once they can change again (back to the original), no? So it is logical to believe that the Catholics should go back to drawing board on how to get the Orthodox to be in union with them. Certainly not by changing things and then ask the Orthodox to change.
Maybe offer an apology and show some humility
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Old 09-05-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
This chart is the Catholic take on church history showing when others parted;
Thanks for providing this chart.

I did not know about pre-Great Schism departures.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:05 PM
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Could be, it's why I called it my impression.

You have to admit the Catholics do seem to be the adults in the conversation. They tend to take the high road. Just read the thread on this issue a while back.
You are talking about Truth vs. lie here. Is it the high road to allow the lie to be called truth and the truth a lie? Maybe in your skewed moral code.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:08 PM
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Maybe offer an apology and show some humility
So the Orthodox need to show humility and ask forgiveness from the Catholics after the Catholics trampled over their own signature at the Third Ecumenical Council that stipulates that no doctrine in the Creed shall be added or changed UNILATERALLY? Is this the EXACT point we the Orthodox should ask forgiveness for? So lawlessness should be awarded and praised?

Again, we see that amazing skewed moral code of yours. Is that how you deal with all moral problems? Is that what your signature is worth? The same as the Catholics signature on the Original Creed?
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:11 PM
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Thanks for providing this chart.

I did not know about pre-Great Schism departures.
Yeah I know. When people come first time in contact with Church History it is mind blowing that this field actually exist. And is an important field in theology. If only the Protestant world will include it in their curriculum.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:21 PM
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You are talking about Truth vs. lie here. Is it the high road to allow the lie to be called truth and the truth a lie? Maybe in your skewed moral code.
Honestly, something just doesn't sound right with that. Don't you think they would have a difference perspective?

Maybe try and see their side.
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Old 09-05-2019, 08:29 PM
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Honestly, something just doesn't sound right with that. Don't you think they would have a difference perspective?

Maybe try and see their side.
Shhhhhhh, someday both will have to reconcile with the Messianic Jews.
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