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Old 08-24-2019, 05:13 PM
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I don’t start fights. So if I’m in one it’s a defensive situation.

I carry a buck automatic knife with a little over a 3 inch blade. I’m fairly sure if I’m in a fight the other guy doesn’t want to be stabbed. If I’m in a fist fight , he’s in a knife fight. If he pulls a knife or other weapon he’s going to be in a gun fight.
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:51 PM
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While size and weight are a factor for me, I really consider the sheath and carry system equally as important as the blade itself. Access, securely staying place (and keeping the knife sheathed), along with a comfortable means to carry are all factors I really consider and find important.

I recall the movie "Close" where the female body guard carried a small shiv strapped to her calf; simple, small, easy to access. My primary defensive tool is a handgun, so I really don't need a large knife, nor do I have the desire to try and carry one opposite my gun. I like the idea of the smaller, inexpensive throwing blades, but I would have to have a sheath and carry system made...good suggestion.

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Most come with some kind of sheath system for the set. Typically inexpensive nylon canvas. A bit of nylon sail repair thread and sail repair needle can help you sew it smaller or move a strap. Then just trim the excess off and use a soldering iron on the loose thread ends to stop any unraveling. Or if you own a heat gun you can form a thin kydex sheath. Both tasks would be considered entry level for working with the respective materials, so it makes for an interesting garage project.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:36 PM
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For smaller fighting blades you can easily conceal it helps to look at throwing blade offerings.
I am familiar with the concept. Your post is entirely logical, addresses actual needs well, and thereby has validity. It should be considered.

There is one problem though, as I see it the standard operating procedure on the internet for these decisions hinges on the fact that the level of cool of one's gear is directly proportional to one's self-esteem. That being a given, the ramifications of carrying such cheapo knives for any length of time, beyond simply picking one up and then dropping it in disgust, could very well result in impotence later on that night, when you really need to perform. Continuous carry would probably lead to having headaches and indigestion also.

In light of that, careful consideration must be given before implementing such a strategy, a cost benefit analysis is in order when there is so much at stake.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:38 PM
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I knew a young lady a long time ago. She was an exotic dancer at a place in D.C. called Chances R. Clothing didn't have anything to do with her act. But all the girls got coached on how to defend themselves because often 'clients' got obsessed over a girl. This coaching involved the use of a flat little box cutter with a new razor blade.

Well, one night a creep that had become a bit obsessed with Christal tried to abduct her on the parking lot after she got off at 2am. She was grabbed from behind and a hand over her mouth kept her from screaming. All 5' 2" of her was being dragged not a van. She employed the box cutter and opened up her abductors arm from wrist to elbow and then ran like hell.

Gut wasn't hard to find, he was the guy at the local ER claiming to be attacked by a bunch of local gang members. He went to prison with a partly disabled arm. Lots tendon and nerve damage.

Cheap edged defense? Go box cutter. Flat, light, cheap and effective.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:37 PM
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I knew a young lady a long time ago. She was an exotic dancer at a place in D.C. called Chances R. Clothing didn't have anything to do with her act. But all the girls got coached on how to defend themselves because often 'clients' got obsessed over a girl. This coaching involved the use of a flat little box cutter with a new razor blade.

Well, one night a creep that had become a bit obsessed with Christal tried to abduct her on the parking lot after she got off at 2am. She was grabbed from behind and a hand over her mouth kept her from screaming. All 5' 2" of her was being dragged not a van. She employed the box cutter and opened up her abductors arm from wrist to elbow and then ran like hell.

Gut wasn't hard to find, he was the guy at the local ER claiming to be attacked by a bunch of local gang members. He went to prison with a partly disabled arm. Lots tendon and nerve damage.

Cheap edged defense? Go box cutter. Flat, light, cheap and effective.
Flat box cutter? Maybe you mean a snapblade wallpaper trim knife?



Vicious little beasts that can extend a number of inches. Flay you right open.

Cheap and disposable, but don't think a cop will ignore them as a work tool unless you also carry rollers and bucket of glue on you as well.
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Old 08-27-2019, 11:07 AM
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Flat box cutter? Maybe you mean a snapblade wallpaper trim knife?



Vicious little beasts that can extend a number of inches. Flay you right open.

Cheap and disposable, but don't think a cop will ignore them as a work tool unless you also carry rollers and bucket of glue on you as well.
No, the flat metal kind that takes a single edge razor blade. Stamped sheet metal body that slides out to reload a new blade. Flays you right open as you say.
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Old 08-27-2019, 11:35 AM
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No, the flat metal kind that takes a single edge razor blade. Stamped sheet metal body that slides out to reload a new blade. Flays you right open as you say.
Oh those. Sharp, but no reach or depth to the cut. Any kind of coat/jacket/sweater on your opponent and you'll need two swipes for the same cut. Fine if they don't know it is coming and not armed themselves, but an immediate disadvantage if they have a blade. Or hell even a brick or a stick. If you are going to bother with a blade then get something that cuts to a depth a bit so you cut flesh on the first try.
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Old 08-27-2019, 01:04 PM
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Oh those. Sharp, but no reach or depth to the cut. Any kind of coat/jacket/sweater on your opponent and you'll need two swipes for the same cut. Fine if they don't know it is coming and not armed themselves, but an immediate disadvantage if they have a blade. Or hell even a brick or a stick. If you are going to bother with a blade then get something that cuts to a depth a bit so you cut flesh on the first try.
Wrong.

Google Micheal Janice pork man tests. A box cutter went almost to the bone, way out of proportion to its size. It will go right though a sleeve or jacket. Across a face or hands it's devastating. The box cutter has been a inner city thug favorite since I was a kid in D.C.It's a stealth counter attack weapon for street and alley. It works well.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:24 PM
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Wrong.

Google Micheal Janice pork man tests. A box cutter went almost to the bone, way out of proportion to its size. It will go right though a sleeve or jacket. Across a face or hands it's devastating. The box cutter has been a inner city thug favorite since I was a kid in D.C.It's a stealth counter attack weapon for street and alley. It works well.
Google? Why? I grew up on Houston city streets. There has been a blade on my person since the late 60's. Knife fights were common enough in/after school. Box cutters were used but were always at a disadvantage with someone had more reach with arm or blade.

No we weren't fancy about it but we bled just the same. Hell, half of the girls I knew had their own arm scars. My sisters have them. Me, between my misspent youth, military, and industrial machinery I look like a roadmap. Fact is that my teenage years working in restaurant kitchens taught me more about putting the blade in a fight where it worked better than anything the Jarheads taught me.

I didn't say sleeve, btw. I said coat, sweater, or jacket. I wasn't talking about thin stuff either. All my coats are leather or heavy denim.
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:33 AM
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Wrong.

Google Micheal Janice pork man tests. A box cutter went almost to the bone, way out of proportion to its size. It will go right though a sleeve or jacket. Across a face or hands it's devastating. The box cutter has been a inner city thug favorite since I was a kid in D.C.It's a stealth counter attack weapon for street and alley. It works well.
Wrong? So you are saying depth of cut, doesn't matter, that a box cutter can be relied upon to cut deep enough in all situations? The knife must be capable of very deep slashes, through the giant fat mans blubber, his leather trench coat, and any other clothes he may be wearing in between. If not then you are just an irritating punk to someone who knows what they are doing, and they will kill you.

Yeah, really, the box cutter has been an inner city thug favorite since forever, and I believe that, but I am not so idiotic as to look to inner city thugs for instruction on knives, or knife fighting.
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Old 08-28-2019, 05:28 AM
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Using straight razors was a big street fighting tool at one point.

Wouldn't be much different to a box cutter.

https://youtu.be/vdU8NnMSkpg
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Old 08-28-2019, 07:32 AM
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Wrong? So you are saying depth of cut, doesn't matter, that a box cutter can be relied upon to cut deep enough in all situations? The knife must be capable of very deep slashes, through the giant fat mans blubber, his leather trench coat, and any other clothes he may be wearing in between. If not then you are just an irritating punk to someone who knows what they are doing, and they will kill you.
I think there is some risk with "slashes" regardless of how deep with small blades. There is some value as a last ditch, surprise factor when the assaulter feels a little pain and sees a lot of blood. Razor blades are an inexpensive option to create that potential break of a hold, but I do agree, it likely won't incapacitate a determine attacker outside of a significant blood loss from an arterial cut.

For a smaller opponent not expected to have a serous weapon, even a car key can be used to gouge and rake to break contact. Such smaller weapons aren't a guarantee, but they are often more effective than nothing for those of smaller stature.

Again, from my training, I just need about six inches of room on my strong side to draw my handgun, so my needs of a blade are not necessarily focused on deep penetration. It's simply a balance of limited skill, needing a smaller blade for concealed carry where comfort is still a factor I attempt to achieve along with ease of access and short-range implementation.

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Old 08-28-2019, 09:26 AM
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I like the Obake. I got one for my wife, and daughter, then one for myself just in case. I don't carry mine often though.

I carry an old Kershaw Echo. I had a guy make a couple of Kydex sheaths for it. One has straps for it to carry horizontally on my belt, the other does not, and I can use it for a variety of carry options. I just love this little blade. I'd buy another one if I could find one, but being a discontinued knife, and a cheap one that a lot of people beat the crap out of, they aren't easy to find.

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Old 08-31-2019, 09:09 AM
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Wrong? So you are saying depth of cut, doesn't matter, that a box cutter can be relied upon to cut deep enough in all situations? The knife must be capable of very deep slashes, through the giant fat mans blubber, his leather trench coat, and any other clothes he may be wearing in between. If not then you are just an irritating punk to someone who knows what they are doing, and they will kill you.

Yeah, really, the box cutter has been an inner city thug favorite since forever, and I believe that, but I am not so idiotic as to look to inner city thugs for instruction on knives, or knife fighting.

An inner city street punk has fought his way up to survive. An adult thug has put down more people than you dream of outside your video games. How many real world knife fights/muggings have you been through? Most of you keyboard commando's have no idea how violent life can be in an inner city slum, no matter D.C., Baltimore, east L.A., London's east end, Autin's 6th street. Take a slash with a box cutter across your hand, face, throat, or wrist and shrug it off. Yeah, right.

Theres a lot of tensions, ligaments and blood vessels right under the skin. It don't take much to put a hand out of commission. Target the sides of the neck and it becomes a moot point real fast.

The human body is a frail thin skinned watery bag of meat. It don't take much to disable or even kill you.
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Old 08-31-2019, 05:03 PM
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An inner city street punk has fought his way up to survive. An adult thug has put down more people than you dream of outside your video games. How many real world knife fights/muggings have you been through? Most of you keyboard commando's have no idea how violent life can be in an inner city slum, no matter D.C., Baltimore, east L.A., London's east end, Autin's 6th street. Take a slash with a box cutter across your hand, face, throat, or wrist and shrug it off. Yeah, right.

Theres a lot of tensions, ligaments and blood vessels right under the skin. It don't take much to put a hand out of commission. Target the sides of the neck and it becomes a moot point real fast.

The human body is a frail thin skinned watery bag of meat. It don't take much to disable or even kill you.
In knife combat there are slashes, stabs, and combinations of the two, insofar as intentional cutting with the knife is concerned. The pommel can be used as an impact weapon, as can the sides and spine of the blade. The knife, if there is enough length, can be utilized for leveraging in locks and cranks, and any cutting is secondary.

If the knife is of such a short blade as to only be useful for slashing, then more than half of the potential usefulness of the knife is lost by its design.

In knife combat the ultimate aim is instantaneous incapacitation of the opponent to the point that they represent zero threat. It is rare that this is actually achieved quickly. The reality is that even though a person sustains cuts and stabs, they are not neutralized as to their potential threat. A person can kill you while they are bleeding out from a slash, a stab, or whatever combination thereof.

Therefore it behooves one to employ all the potential of the knife, not just slashes, by choosing beforehand a knife that is capable of both slashing and stabbing, and with effective training, bashing, leveraging.

An apt analogy would be arguing the value of a single shot firearm, however powerful that single shot is, over the potential of a semiautomatic with a thirty round magazine.

As to the inner city street punks/thugs, I am not at all as impressed as you seem to be. I fully realize their danger, but their potential doesn't come close to that of a trained knife fighter that understands the limitations of fighting with a box cutter.

You are so wrong as to the frailty of the human animal, and your misconceptions as regards this will definitely get you killed if you engage in combat with knives, or even firearms for that matter.

When people are in a life and death struggle, and their body is full of adrenaline, they may not even feel the slashes you inflict upon them, and unless you are lucky, or skillful enough to hit a heavy bleeder, then they will keep trying to kill you. Even if you do slash a vein they will not bleed out quickly enough for your level of complacency, and ignorance. The arteries, major internal organs, spinal cord/brain, are what you need to cut/stab to achieve a relatively fast kill, and they are deeper in the body, more protected, necessitating a longer blade than a box cutter to easily reach, or reach at all.

If you are fighting a trained knife fighter armed with something along the lines of the recon tanto, and you are armed with a box cutter, you are at a severe disadvantage, and will, in all probability, die.

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Theres a lot of tensions, ligaments and blood vessels right under the skin.
I agree, along with ligaments and blood vessels, humans can have a lot of tensions under the skin, and in their heads, and I think you suffer from more than your fair share of such tensions, to the point that they are negatively impacting your cognitive abilities.

How many fights have I been involved in, with whatever weapons .......... that sort of internet cred throw down is the hallmark of the keyboard commando ........ I believe you are projecting in your characterizations. Make a prodigious effort to think about this, post up ones dd214, post up police reports, talk about fights that are seen as unsolved crimes by law enforcement, just open up about many things that create vulnerability, all in a futile effort to satisfy the demands of somebody on the internet, yeah right. How about simply analyzing the content of what is said, with logic and rationality, in order to establish the validity of the information.
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Old 08-31-2019, 05:53 PM
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An inner city street punk has fought his way up to survive. An adult thug has put down more people than you dream of outside your video games. How many real world knife fights/muggings have you been through? Most of you keyboard commando's have no idea how violent life can be in an inner city slum, no matter D.C., Baltimore, east L.A., London's east end, Autin's 6th street.
You are so full of bull.

99% of slum residents get home safely through knowledge of the terrain and guile.

Guns are easy enough to get that most US thugs haven't done much more than fold a knife and put it in their pocket.

The time knives were commonly practiced US street weapons passed decades ago.

Unless you live on the streets of Manila or Marseilles today then your knife skills are no better than the video game players you mention.

When the most common skill set is basically nil then tool advantage and the sheer willingness to act will solve most fights in your favor.

With my actual youth experience, guile, and overall lack of skill in modern thugs the chances of me running into a skilled knife US street fighter who can best me with a box cutter is so low that I'm more worried about being hit by a lightning strike. If I'm going into the bad places I'm smart enough to bring a gun anyway.
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:26 PM
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Back to your OP Rock, the Scrub and the Obake seem to be reasonable choices for creating enough distance to draw your firearm. How are they working out in your EDC setup? I still stick with the Kobun. It seems to carry flat and close to body in IWB or SOB carry. Sometimes I carry two if I can't carry a firearm.

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Old 09-01-2019, 07:43 PM
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Back to your OP Rock, the Scrub and the Obake seem to be reasonable choices for creating enough distance to draw your firearm. How are they working out in your EDC setup? I still stick with the Kobun. It seems to carry flat and close to body in IWB or SOB carry. Sometimes I carry two if I can't carry a firearm.

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I really like the profile of the Scrub, but the slim IWB carry method with the Obake is winning out. It just seems to carry more comfortably. The trick is finding the right balance of comfort, ease of access, and concealability. While we all love to talk knife designs, I've found the sheath system as equally as important.

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Old 09-02-2019, 02:16 AM
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one of these works as well.but ya need something you can hold onto that wont snag in clothing or motion and get pulled out of your hand.....
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:15 AM
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For smaller fighting blades you can easily conceal it helps to look at throwing blade offerings.

Granted, most are cheap steel and you have to wade through a bunch of offerings to find one that will hold a decent edge and isn't just a pointed metal stick, but the cheap knife makers make them in a million shapes for the idiots who think that throwing away your weapon is a good idea. But because they come in small sets instead of singles you can buy with the express ability to ditch it if you think having it is an impending bust, and then go back home and replace it.

Many come with narrow handles and long double sided blades, ripe to hone a decent double edge and well wrap with friction tape or parachute cord to beef up handling characteristics. Fashioning a clip sheath for boot or waistband isn't that hard either. You do need a good edge but since it is only for fighting you don't have to wade through a million cheap offerings to find one where they went with super grade knife steel. It's affordable, reasonably disposable, and should keep the edge you need long enough for the hopefully brief knife fight. Long knife fights are not worth planning around.

People considering a knife fight typically and rightfully ignore all these Bud-K and the sort throwing knife offerings because only mall ninjas load up with a spread of throwing knives. You just need to look at them as one carry knife with affordable replacements in the box.



Something like this with a good base of paracord and hockey stick tape wrap can be sharpened for a few minutes of good fighting and then ditched over a stream bridge as you exit the area. If you survived the fight mostly intact then you could go home and make up a new one.

Trust me, they didn't use D2 tool steel in the early Sykes Fairbain blades and they didn't demand hard use from it. But they were the OSS early standard for knife fighting. It was mostly about shape, concealability, and skill. Jim Bowie died over a century ago and we haven't had much call for his brand of fighting knives since. If big is what you want then pick up a surplus WW1 bayonet. Cheap and proven in literally thousands of trench knife fights. Otherwise go smaller and simpler like a Kunai blade with some handle help.
I think the big down fall of the throwing knives is the crappy sheath. And if you only want to carry one at a time, why carry a sheath that holds, or is meant to carry a couple, few more.

Picked up a pack of SOG throwers for my wife, as she was interested in having her own to go throwing with. She ended up getting some girlier ones, so I ended up with the SOG knives. Seem to be a pretty rugged (tough) steel, and came pretty sharp.

Not sure about the wisdom of throwing away your blade; more of a sport that's getting (or gotten) more popular, but if you have a few, well maybe? Got the blades for the fun of throwing them anyway, rather than the misapprehension that I would be using them as defensive weapons. Might be useful for harvesting some small game, like a rabbit or grouse that lets you get too close. I thought that sticking a knife into someone's chest was pure Hollywood bs, until I tried throwing. And it'll be a lot different then throwing at a static wood block, but I'd never say it didn't have merit anymore if a person got good. Of course the better and easier answer is having a gun, but I was really surprised at how those blades penetrated a block of wood. I don't think I could stab it any deeper than I got by tossing them at 20'. They'd sink in a good inch, and take a good tug to pull out.

Hard to imagine that I would be trying to ditch a blade after using it. I think after something like that, and probably leaving the scene in haste and possibly covered in blood, and maybe leaving some of my own, acting coy would probably be the last thing I'd try.

Lots of different offerings out there, and I probably wouldn't get too hung up on whether it's billed as a fighting knife or "tactical", or even how great of a steel it is. Probably more on whether it fits my hand, pocket, or carries well, and whether or not I should conceal it. And then a reasonably good steel that will take a keen edge.
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