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Old 08-01-2019, 02:47 AM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Default Bunker door



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'bunker' might be the wrong word.

I've decided to do a small concrete structure set into the side of the hill (think walk out basement without the house.)

Partially to put my canned goods in so that should I leave in winter I can winterize the house and let it freeze.

Partially for bulk goods storage in a stable (temp) environment.
(Mostly those 2)

Partially as an experiment for my future ICF house (I'll hang a hammock in there.)

And although I'm playing with the idea of making it a NBC "bunker" I'll probably go with just fairly secure storage.
(So advice on doors of both types are welcome.)

I'm kinda thinking of those roll down doors like gas stations have, backed by a good security door. (Want the opening big enough for a pallet on a pallet jack.) As I think that'll be the most reasonable security/economic meeting ground.

Been randomly googling, figured I'd tap the brain trust.
Whatchagot?
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:52 AM
Mr4btTahoe Mr4btTahoe is offline
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Sounds like a root cellar. We just built our door out of 1x treated.. hung with gate hinges and insulated. A roll up door could work but if you decide to go NBC with it.. it may be difficult to seal up.

I'd build 2 doors that open outward like a shed with an area of overlap in the center. Insulate and call it good but that's just me. I'm cheap. Lol
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:57 AM
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https://www.bilco.com/category292/BILCO_Basement_Doors
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:56 AM
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I’d likely go with two doors at least!

Outside security door with airspace and then inside insulated door.

A heavy hinged door with its frame welded up and then poured into the concrete would likely be stronger than a roll up door.

If you weld I’d likely make something for that application. Likely incline as you come in so door shuts tight and water isn’t going to run in under the door.

Puck style locks in protective boxes and pins recessed in hing side so cutting hinges off wouldn’t open door.

Walk in freezer style strip door to make second airspace may help

Make a covered shed in front for a “porch” that you can store hay bales in stacked against the back wall to freeze proof the front. Then as long as it’s underground deep enough it’s winter walk away if you want.

Roll up would work better with this option!

SD
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Old 08-02-2019, 07:32 PM
KLF KLF is offline
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Personally, I would add/design a vestibule type small space in front regardless of your plans. So that you can keep inside temperature from being largely affected by outside weather. The inner door does not have to be anything special. It makes no point to vent all the heat outside during winter when you exit/enter the storage.

This design is something I came across earlier:
http://www.jrholvikellari.fi/kuvat/viinitupa.gif

Three sets of doors. That is a root cellar manufacturer's layout. Largest room is wine tasting area (well insulated), second is wine cellar (light insulation) and the last part at the end is actual root cellar (least insulation).

This is of course dependent on how much actual space you have available. The first space would be most insulated and large, one you can fit stuff in pallets and also use as a living space. Second room would be storage for dry goods and the last room one at the end actual root cellar storage.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:11 PM
Gulcher Gulcher is offline
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Depends what you want to keep out. I build one for a guy that had 1/4 in. plate skin and 4 in. of steel reinforced concrete core. A .50 with standard ammo would have to chug on it for a good while. The frame was 1/4 in steel channel which I welded embeds attachments to, to be set in poured concrete. He needed a small picker to take it home. I built one other one for a different guy, it was 3/8 plate core with 1 in. oak boards on both sides bolted completely through. Depends on what you want to keep out. Go with inside locking pins and covered hinges.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:16 PM
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Without knowing a few more details, this might have to be modified somewhat.

I believe your best option will be to go with an insulated security door, with the mountings being usable for a much stronger door for NBC protection. It can be done several ways, again depending on what some of the parameters you will be using. With the physical limitations, I think I would avoid using any design that includes stacking blocks or sandbags if radiation protection becomes necessary. Better to do a door that has the protection needed.

It sounds like the structure will be built with ICF since you stated it will be an experiment for your future ICF construction house. Also, since it appears that the floor will extend outward enough, and be built strong enough to support the pallet jack with loaded pallet. With that being the case, I think a side rolling door would work the best for both options.

The width of the front of the structure would either have to be 11 to 12 feet, to allow a 6 foot wide door to slide to the side to access a 5 foot opening so a 48” x 48” pallet will fit through the doorway without any problems.

Now, if the structure is not going to be that wide, it might still be possible to use the door as described simply by extending the outside floor past the side of the structure enough so the door can be opened. The upper guides would also have to be extended to keep the door in place.

The advantages of this design is that it can be as heavy as necessary since the weight is all on the inset inverted angle tracks that the V-groove wheels of the door would ride on. Initially, only thick foamboard insulation could be installed against the inside front of the door. Concrete could be added later if it is decided to make the structure into an NBC shelter.

With the door overlapping the opening by several inches when closed, any blast overpressure would simply press the door more tightly against the wall. When the blast wave reverses it is unlikely there would be enough air inside the structure for it to push the door outward against the guides at the top and the tracks at the bottom.

A heavily insulated inner wall and door of conventional construction would be used as part of an airlock entry. It could use an insulated roll-up type door, or a side sliding door if the width allows, or a pair of swinging doors. Since it is protected, a by-pass side sliding door could be used if there is at least some additional width over the five foot wide opening for the pallet jack access. Adding a clear plastic strip air barrier to this inner door will help keep the temperature stable when going in and out.

If the side sliding door is not going to be workable, that leaves roll-up or swinging doors. If several heavy hinges are used on both of the 2˝ foot wide doors, and a support wheel is installed on the moving edge, then a fairly heavy set of doors can be constructed. Again, thick foam board insulation against the inside front of the doors, with space provided for concrete or some other shielding material to be added later.

The inner wall and doors would be the same as for the side sliding main door installation.

The two sets of doors could be placed quite close together, as the outer doors would open outward, and the inner doors either roll up, slide to the side, or swing inward.

The main thing, in order to have the structure be dual use with NBC protection, is to have the doors stout enough and supported well enough, to have the shielding material added to the insulation. And, to have enough insulation to make the structure as temperature stable as possible.

One other option (two options depending on how you look at it) is to use conventional heavy insulated double doors, possible with a second inner set for the air lock aspect, and use either a drop down or pull up heavy plate or a concrete filled box to cover the door if NBC protection is needed.

If it is a drop down, it can act as a roof over the outside pad. If it is a pull up, it can be part of the outside pad. Drop down is easier, as it only needs to be controlled as it comes down of its own weight. The pull up will need a winch, either manual or with manual backup, to pull it up into position.

The drop down cover, of course, would need either a winch system or hydraulic system to open it back up. Pushing it open with jacks just enough to get out might be enough for a while, but it would need to have a mechanism to get it back up to full height at some point.

It could be designed so it drops down to cover the door, and then the top is lowered down once the danger is over. The cover could then be hoisted back up and put back into place for future use.

The drop down and pull up covers seem like they would be more involved than was worth it, but it is an option.

There might be some other options, but I would need more details to trigger the additional ideas. Width of the front, actual door opening needed, how much, if any, the front can be extended outward from the hill face, how the floor is to be constructed, any limiting factors on how the doors open, and anything else that might affect the door design.

Hopefully this will at least trigger some ideas even if the designs described are not suitable.

I can do some drawings to illustrate the ideas if needed.

Just my opinion.
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:35 PM
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It makes moving material a bit more work, but prevents battering, and adds a blast barrier NBC issue... Hesco type cages filled with rock, even repurposed 525 gal totes metal cage and plastic would not have to be food quality for this. filled with rock and then a wet thin concrete they aren't going anywhere.

Stack so there is a 90 degree turn to get to door.

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Old 08-11-2019, 09:13 PM
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They aren't cheap, but if you don't want to mess around, you can get vault doors to mount into the concrete wall. This would be a great second door behind a plain outside door with a small entryway room.
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Old 08-12-2019, 07:37 AM
Mr4btTahoe Mr4btTahoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImStillHere View Post
It makes moving material a bit more work, but prevents battering, and adds a blast barrier NBC issue... Hesco type cages filled with rock, even repurposed 525 gal totes metal cage and plastic would not have to be food quality for this. filled with rock and then a wet thin concrete they aren't going anywhere.

Stack so there is a 90 degree turn to get to door.


Hesco barriers are sweet... and you can make the cages yourself out of fencing and bailing wire in a pinch. Get some IBC totes and line them with wire mesh/fence as the plastic will degrade over time.

Planning on doing something similar to my shelter entrance in the near future.
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Old 08-19-2019, 10:20 AM
SDFGuy09 SDFGuy09 is offline
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I built a balanced door in my basement. Took some doing but my engineering degree paid off. I'll upload the plans I used.
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