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Old 06-25-2019, 12:14 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Originally Posted by evilwhitey View Post
Because you'll be dealing with people that don't care about PMs and don't see them as currency. If we're talking short term SHTF scenarios 15-20 years out when digital currencies are the norm, most of the PM proponents will be dead
so, YOU ARE saying that something that's been the same for all of recordes.history will change....

and people will still have access to digital means of exchange just as they do today in remote parts of Africa with nothing more than a cell phone. If the 3rd world can do it today, I don't see digital going away once it becomes the norm.

Yes, if it's the end of the world and all digital infrastructure is gone, PMs may have speculative worth greater than industrial use dictates, but here you change your mind.

but it would take an immense cataclysmic event or events, to bring that about. Even so, I think there would be better forms of barter at that point.

I'd much rather have food, water, tools/gear, guns/ammo, land, etc than PMs.
Right, because my food, water, tools, gear, guns and ammo, land, cows, garden, fruit trees etc make this oz of gold that's been in in my pocket for the last 10 years be repelled from me and vanish!?!
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Right, because my food, water, tools, gear, guns and ammo, land, cows, garden, fruit trees etc make this oz of gold that's been in in my pocket for the last 10 years be repelled from me and vanish!?!
You may want to go back and read what I wrote, you obviously didn't comprehend it.

Not sure what you're getting at. All I said is that I'd prioritize other preps far before PMs and yet so many "preppers" are obsessed with PMs like they're a magical insurance policy. They aren't, and they will become less so as time moves forward.

We didn't have computing or the internet for 99.9% of human history, so yes, things can and will change. The world is becoming interconnected at an astounding rate.

You sound a whole lot like people who resisted the telephone in favor of the telegraph, the tv in favor of radio, email in favor of physical mail, automobiles in favor of horse drawn buggies, etc etc.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:42 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is online now
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PMs will always have value. My only objections is when hawkers of PMs con people into thinking they are money or Constitutional money or that the value has always been constant.

PMs are an asset. They are not an income producing asset. They are a poor hedge because they are not a reliable hedge. It is most of us best guess that save PMs that they will be the closest thing to money in an all out SHTF. Not likely generally accepted but a barter tool for equalizing unequal trade.

I cannot see 1s and 0s on a thumb drive fulfilling any of the above. The fact that someone can find someone to exchange something for them is irrelevant.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:38 AM
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Here we go again. Please show me where anyone said or suggested that anyone stock PMs only or even first, then food, water, ammo and etc. It happens every time anyone says "Yes, I think PMs would be a good prepping tool." Or anything similar.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:12 AM
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How do you eat in a digital economy?
One byte at a time.

Joking aside, of course precious metals will have value in the future economy. They just are not money used in everyday transactions as they were in the past. For that matter physical representatives of money such as dollar bills are fast being obsoleted by electronic payment.

Gold and silver will still be in demand for personal ornamentation and industrial uses.
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Old 07-07-2019, 02:23 PM
Patriot88 Patriot88 is offline
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Originally Posted by LazorWolf View Post
I am a bit torn, I have some funds to invest in Gold and Silver but I am wondering when we go digital will gold and silver have value?

I cannot see how it will have value, convince me it will.
Newsflash, we already are a digital economy. Cash is only used in aprx 10% of transactions in non-****hole countries. If you own gold and silver in order to use it as cash then need to get a better grasp on the economy. Gold and silver are a store of wealth but it have its greatest utility when the dollar collapses or if the digital economy has a catastrophic failure.
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by LazorWolf View Post
I am a bit torn, I have some funds to invest in Gold and Silver but I am wondering when we go digital will gold and silver have value?

I cannot see how it will have value, convince me it will.
If by digital economy you mean the Fed recalls all cash. There will be some sort of unground economy, my guess would be gold and silver would be king in that sort of environment.
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Old 07-07-2019, 05:24 PM
MFF Jumpmaster MFF Jumpmaster is offline
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I included gold and silver as part of my preparations. I recommend that you only invest the amount that you can afford to set aside and never need. Also, go with a 75/25 mix of silver to gold. Silver will be easier to exchange for the goods you may need, and neither goes up nor down a great deal in value. It's currently $14 or so, and will not be more than a few dollars up or down until a major currency collapse.

My theory is this: gold never goes up or down. Consider that one $20 ounce of gold in 1900 bought a tailored suit and custom made shoes. Today, that same $1300 (+/-) ounce buys the same. The dollar has decreased in value, but gold remains stable.

As a prep, precious metals are not an investment. They are bartering material. As such, you might find that medical supplies, alcohol, and cigarettes will get you a better deal. But... metals don't expire and aren't easily damaged!

Last edited by MFF Jumpmaster; 07-07-2019 at 05:24 PM.. Reason: Clarification
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:44 PM
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Gold very much goes up and down in value. I remember the "crash" in gold prices about 1995 or so. Down to around $225 an ounce, or something like that. If I recall correctly, it was because Australia sold off its gold reserves, or something like that. I forget what it was just before then. Silver was at $5.30. Various things will affect the price or "value". I wish I had bought a ton of it back then....

If it weren't for the fact that gold and silver have real industrial use (and there will always be a demand), I would have said it is no different than phony paper money. It only has value because it is perceived to have value. When people stop believing that gold is anything more than a useless shiny hunk of metal, then it will have no "intrinsic value" at all. Lots of things have been used as money because people perceive it to be valuable. Silver and gold and diamonds and rubies are no different.

I think silver and gold will probably always be worth something (again, if only because of the industrial demand), but it may or may not "hold its value" like people think it will. If I had money to spend (and I don't), I'd be buying land rather than gold.

I also don't subscribe to most of the popular SHTF scenarios, so I probably have a different perspective than most here.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:58 PM
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Gold is a commodity not a standard! Suppose tomorrow it was discovered 300 feet below the surface of Mount Everest the mountain was solid gold. One year from now, probably much less, we would be comparing gold prices to tin prices. But the fiat dollar would remain relatively the same depending on monetary policies.

The idea that gold in relation to its purchasing value does not change is a myth. It is happening right before our eyes. Consider how many gallons of milk an ounce of gold would have purchased today vs. its high.

Gold is a commodity. The price varies based on supply and demand. The supply does on change often especially on a global basis. The gold supply within the US has changed during our history and caused problems with the money supply.

The problem with trying to explain gold and money to most gold standard lovers is they cannot see the two as separate commodities. Gold is relatively finite with very little supply added each year.

Money, especially the dollar is also a commodity. It is the international money of trade. Many people in the US get excited when the money supply is increased. Sometime that excitement is with good reason.

For money to be a standard to which people trade goods and services there must be an adequate supply. If we were a stand-alone country without outside trade a gold backed dollar would work just fine.

But we are not. We are the country of international trade. Oil is priced and traded in dollars. That sucks up a lot of dollars. In most countries their currency in referenced in dollars for determining exchange rates.

If we traded in gold backed dollars today we would not have any dollars to use in our daily lives partly because of the above and partly due to our balance of trade deficit.

Now a good argument can be make for the self-governing a gold standard would have on trade deficits and surpluses. Such arguments sound very good when using two countries. Factor in all the countries in the world and the results are disastrous.

The truth is if we were on a gold standard today we would have no gold. Therefore we would have no money. At one time on our history while on the gold standard (maybe it was the silver standard) money was so hard to come by that people used postage stamps for currency because hard money was too valuable to use for money. During the Civil War often general stores would stamp out their own copper coins. They were accepted in relative large areas given the transportation issues.

Today we actually have two different dollars issued by the government one is the Silver eagle the other is the fiat dollar. The Silver Eagles are legal tender and have a weight of one troy ounce of silver. (Most of you know: One Troy Pound has 12 Troy Ounces or 13 US Ounces.) The fiat dollar is also legal tender.

So the question begging to be asked is why is the Federal Reserve increasing the money supply? For years we have requested that China permit their currency to float in value against the dollar. Their currency is fiat money too. They have refused. Their policy causes lost jobs in the US. Their fixed ratio to the dollar hurts employment in the US.

China’s policy hurts all other currencies pegged to or floated against the dollar. (Countries with small economies do not have the same impact because of their size and the amount of trade they do with us and worldwide.) Because we import so many things from China our net inflation rate must increase.

You can say what you like but our fiat dollar attached to any commodity standard would not work. Global trade is here to stay. We do not have within our sovereign borders all the commodities we need. We do not want to have our people making many of the mundane items we use. If we attempted this, our standard of living would drop like a rock.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:03 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFF Jumpmaster View Post

My theory is this: gold never goes up or down. Consider that one $20 ounce of gold in 1900 bought a tailored suit and custom made shoes. Today, that same $1300 (+/-) ounce buys the same. The dollar has decreased in value, but gold remains stable.
That simply is untrue as a general analogy.

Pick something anything you can trace the price of from 1900 to 2019 and post the link. Then pick your preferred gold price data link. I will do the correlation for you.

If your analogy were true then why doesn't the price of gold and silver correlate? Why does the ratio vary so much?

The truth is both gold and silver are nothing more than commodities. Commodities that have often been used as barter but have always failed as money.
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Old 07-13-2019, 09:38 PM
pinetree64 pinetree64 is offline
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I like gold coins. I have a couple thousand bucks worth. I figure it’s a way to hold value off the books. I don’t view them as an investment. For that, I use GLD. To generate income from it, I sell options.
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:34 PM
country_boy country_boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFF Jumpmaster View Post
I included gold and silver as part of my preparations. I recommend that you only invest the amount that you can afford to set aside and never need. Also, go with a 75/25 mix of silver to gold. Silver will be easier to exchange for the goods you may need, and neither goes up nor down a great deal in value. It's currently $14 or so, and will not be more than a few dollars up or down until a major currency collapse.
So in the past 20 years silver has ranged from$4 to $48 Reality doesn’t back your argument up.
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:44 PM
rriley rriley is offline
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Originally Posted by country_boy View Post
So in the past 20 years silver has ranged from$4 to $48 Reality doesn’t back your argument up.
This range is not a valid example because the Hunt Brothers manipulation ran the market from $4.73 to $48.00. You would get a more reasonable representation of the silver range if you back out the relatively short period that the Hunts were involved.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:09 PM
fistfulladirt fistfulladirt is offline
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Originally Posted by rriley View Post
This range is not a valid example because the Hunt Brothers manipulation ran the market from $4.73 to $48.00. You would get a more reasonable representation of the silver range if you back out the relatively short period that the Hunts were involved.
Agreed, but the Hunts weren’t involved 30 years later when silver drove towards $50 once again.
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Old 07-14-2019, 08:55 PM
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Israel Putnam Israel Putnam is offline
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I just bought a roll of silver quarters and a roll of silver dimes today at the flea market for about spot.
I could have bought a can of 420rnds of 62gr 5.56 on strippers for $120.
I chose the roll of quarters $105.

As stated earlier, even if all money was banned there would still be people using some sort of “money”, and that’ll be pm’s.

If it comes to a trade economy someone will want something you have but they won’t have something you want or vice versa.
In this case you’ll either trade pm’s or one of you will be doing without.
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Old 07-14-2019, 10:03 PM
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The chips in our credit cards will be the only way to pay in the future.... official purchases, that is. Prophetic texts state those chips will eventually be embedded in our hands or foreheads.

But.... the Black-market will always exist. What that currency is, is anyone's guess, but I think silver and gold will always have a place.

Additionally..... half-pints of liquor, toilet paper, ladies products, etc will buy things you need and don't have.
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rriley View Post
This range is not a valid example because the Hunt Brothers manipulation ran the market from $4.73 to $48.00. You would get a more reasonable representation of the silver range if you back out the relatively short period that the Hunts were involved.
I did. I said past 20years. That would be 1999-2019.Ag hit $48 in2011, nearly a decade after bunker hunt died. The hunts cornered silver in 1979, 20 years before my time line.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:33 AM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is online now
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I am inclined to think the more the economy becomes digital/electronic the more the prices of PMs will settle on their intrinsic value. IMO that will give us buyers regardless of our reasons to a more stable cost value. From there we can speculate on the premium value during a SHTF.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:15 AM
OldDesertrat OldDesertrat is offline
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Sorta funny: Over half the world's population believes that gold is money, while a few people in the U.S. disagree with that.

I just figure that PMs may well become the currency in demand at some future time in a post-SHTF situation. But more important is one's capability for water, long-term food supply and the means to protect them.
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