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Old 03-18-2019, 06:38 PM
old disturbed guy old disturbed guy is offline
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Default AR10 vs M14 (M1a)



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Probably done before but I could not find it. In buying a rifle today, which would be the better purchase, an AR10 or an M1a in terms of cost, accuracy, weight, length and overall reliability and handling. Use would be residential and field (300 yds) areas of defence,not really in buildings.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:46 PM
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I only have AR 308s (DPMS pattern) not AR 10s (Bushmaster).
They work real good.
I like them. I would go this direction again.
Want to get a 338 Federal Upper for one of my lowers.
PSA has had some good deals on M1a lately.
Never owned one, but they seem real nice.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:49 PM
Doc_Jon Doc_Jon is offline
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This dead horse has been beaten into glue

Try searching for "M1A" "M14" and "AR10" and then sift through the search results.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:56 PM
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Search what you want...but for under $800 you can get a 16" AR in .308 that will do the job just fine, weigh less, and allow you to change out most parts as you wish without taking out a loan. More length if you want it, of course.

The M1A may be better at the top end, if you spend enough money...but for most people, as they use the guns, the returns don't match the investment.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:03 PM
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...to stoke the fire, I will recommend the M14.

It simply has a much longer track record as a proven battle rifle. But I personally feel that a good, basic, M14 setup will cost a little more than a good basic AR10 setup...and in all honesty once you get to the top tier I am not sure there is a big difference.

Others will argue but imo the M14 is more accurate. Some will say the AR10 has better ergonomics but training on the M14 really eliminates any advantage of ergonomics the AR10 has.

I will admit the AR10 has more furniture options. There are some custom stocks out there for the M14 but they will cost you.

The magazines are more reliable for the M14 (only use USGI or CMI)..but the 308 pmags and lancer mags have made mag options much better for the AR10.

It's easier to mount optics on the AR10, but with a good mount on the M14 it's hard to argue mounting points as a reason to go with the AR10.

My M14s weigh more than my friends AR10...but if you are man enough to handle a 308 then dont worry about it.

Either this thread will die fast or it will turn into the normal M14 vs AR10 arguements with the FAL and HK guys randomly popping in to tell you why to go with their choice.

My best recommendation is to buy both
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
The M1A may be better at the top end, if you spend enough money...but for most people, as they use the guns, the returns don't match the investment.
I can Not agree with this. A top tier M14 will outlast your grandkids. And the price on top tier M14s keeps going up as the supply of mil surplus parts gets smaller and smaller.

I honestly view them as an excellent investment...but a top tier M14 is a very pretty penny. But it is possible to accumulate the parts over time to offset expense. Or find a good used older one with all USGI parts and put a new barrel on it.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:26 PM
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I can Not agree with this. A top tier M14 will outlast your grandkids.
So will a bottom tier AR 10...for most people, as I said.

And as the left continues to erode our liberties, either gun may become illegal, or almost priceless.

Nothing wrong with the M1A...but I see no reason to spend "more" just so your grandkids, who may or may not exist, might be able to play with an antique gun.

I appreciate the 120 year old Mausers I have, and the 100 year old Enfields...even my 70 year old Garand...but the fact is, in 100 years, the M1A might be the same thing, just a neat memento, an odd bit of nostalgia that serious shooters use for fun, or a competition within the class, because they have SO much better stuff available.
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:34 PM
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yeah, when our grandkids are running and gunning plasma rifles, in the 40 watt range, these ars, m12s and fals will be relics.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:45 PM
Snyper708 Snyper708 is offline
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Get the one you like the most.
Or get both.
It doesn't have to be "either/or".
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:07 PM
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[quote=Doc_Jon;19415952]

My M14s weigh more than my friends AR10...but if you are man enough to handle a 308 then dont worry about it.[/QUOTE]

Most aren't...including me. I'm likely in the best shape of my life and have zero desire to carry around a 10+pound rifle. You don't see many .308 rifles in classes for several reasons, but mostly because of weight and ammo costs. I still want the .308 benefits, so I'm testing out POF's Revolution, which is a 7.5lb AR15-sized .308. Still, many ignore the weight because they haven't seriously trained with one or carried one except to their truck from the house. Weight matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
My best recommendation is to buy both
Now this, I fully agree with

Honestly, it's hard to look past the numerous AR10 variants and prices these days. However, every American should own at least one M1A

ROCK6
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:03 PM
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If I were behind the counter,and you asked me,I'd hand you and AR pattern rifle. Probably a D.P.M.S. GII Recon. Since I own one I can say it's accurate,"lightweight",reliable,and cost effective considering.
An 8lb AR pattern .308 is a handy boomstick to have available....I.M.O.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:22 PM
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I have a PTR91, which is one of the other 308 platforms.
I wanted another p308 platform, so I researching it and found a lot of mediocre reviews on the current Springfield M1a's. So-so accuracy, difficult to mount optics to, heavy, etc... Basically old tech that's somewhat dead-ended. YMMV, of course.

So I went AR10 and am building an Aero M5 based gun. I bought a BA/Hanson barrel to make sure it's as accurate as can be, and added a Larue MBT trigger to help me be as accurate as I can be... Adding an optic will be simple, as will changing anything else I need to.

If you go AR10, PSA has great entry level kits that are good to go. And I believe they're DPMS pattern so should be upgrade-able/modifiable.

There is no 'mil-spec' in the AR10 world, so there are two main AR10 'patterns;' DPMS and Armalite. Minor differences, but enough so that they're not compatible.
It gets a little more complicated than that in that there are high profile and low profile DPMS uppers. Most of these differences are really just the upper receiver design. But don't worry, once you decide on it, there are plenty of options for each of them.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:23 PM
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
Most aren't...including me. I'm likely in the best shape of my life and have zero desire to carry around a 10+pound rifle. You don't see many .308 rifles in classes for several reasons, but mostly because of weight and ammo costs. I still want the .308 benefits, so I'm testing out POF's Revolution, which is a 7.5lb AR15-sized .308. Still, many ignore the weight because they haven't seriously trained with one or carried one except to their truck from the house. Weight matters.ROCK6
I will agree that weight has to be considered, and I read all of your arguments the last time a similar topic was discussed (I think that time everyone was discussing FALs).

I thought alot about the types people are using in classes after you mentioned it last time and I honestly think it has to do with alot more than weight.

You mentioned ammo cost which is a definite concern...308s are expensive to feed and very hungry.

I think that part of why folks choose AR15s over M14s in the classes has to do with their prior firearms experience, what is recommended by the instructors, ergonomics do allow for slightly faster reloads, and a sexiness factor of what the shooting public "thinks" is better because they see all of these ex-SF types on YouTube running John Wick drills. Another part of it is they are either ignorant of M14s or they think that a 5.56 is some kind of super round.

I started shooting M14s in my mid teens because that's what my dad and uncle shot. I was familiar and accurate with one way before the army ever put an M16A2 in my hands, so I grew up respecting 7.62x51. When in the army, before the wars started, only a few old NCOs even knew what an M14 was, but ALL of those I ever met who had used one preferred M14s to M16s.

I know many LE officers and when they have an AR in their vehicle they feel like they have a cannon, simply because they dont know anything about M14s. I have introduced several to M14s and they immediately want it over their ARs.

As far as the sexiness factor goes, we have all seen SF types running around with MK18s and such and I honestly feel like that tacticool factor is what motivates many to pick an AR type.

This might chafe a few 4th points of contact but I had the chance to work with SF types and I was not honestly impressed with the weapons knowledge of most of them. Yes they are super tough, excellent shots and very brave but their weapons knowledge became so mission specific that I felt they developed tunnel vision. When one is using them as a source for weapons recommendations you have to keep in mind that, while as individuals they are self sufficient, they are used to a massive support system supplying, repairing and feeding their weapons. And I believe this mentality carries over to their teaching once they are in the private sectorpop l.

I like ALL rifles...never seen one that I didn't want...but I feel that if someone wants a no BS, heavy hitting, reliable, accurate and simple to operate rifle, that can make it through any SHTF scenario then an M14 is the best option.

The best advice I can give for any rifle is that you must train with it. The best rifle in the world is useless unless you are taking it to the range and really shooting the crap put of it, shooting from different positions, on the move, simulating failures and every scenario you can think of. If the choice is between an M14 or a cheap AR with 1000 of ammo, then get the AR and learn how to shoot.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:15 AM
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I have always been enamored by the M1/M14/M1A, but I will never be able to afford one. So I'll save my pennies and start buying parts for an AR-308. If I get lucky, I'll be able to assemble it before the Leftist's take away semi-auto's in about 10 years or so....
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:26 AM
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Just got an email ad from Classic Firearms, with several M14s from James River Armory. I have to admit, I'm kinda tempted to take the plunge.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:55 AM
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.

This might not be the lowest priced AR-10 on the market, but it does come with a transferable lifetime warranty.

https://www.k-var.com/windham-weapon...ekly_3_18_2019



.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
I started shooting M14s in my mid teens because that's what my dad and uncle shot. I was familiar and accurate with one way before the army ever put an M16A2 in my hands, so I grew up respecting 7.62x51.
So...you have an honest bias for the M14, that makes sense. I feel the same way about Savage Model 99's over Win '94's.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
When in the army, before the wars started, only a few old NCOs even knew what an M14 was, but ALL of those I ever met who had used one preferred M14s to M16s.
Odd...every single guy I knew while in the military that had been in Vietnam early on loved getting rid of the M14 for the M16, as does every guy I know now, that was there. Marines or Army, makes no difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
I know many LE officers and when they have an AR in their vehicle they feel like they have a cannon, simply because they dont know anything about M14s. I have introduced several to M14s and they immediately want it over their ARs.
I find it sad that your LEO's feel that way. Most of our LEO's have a 300 Win Mag or a 30-06 at home for hunting elk, so they know better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
I like ALL rifles...never seen one that I didn't want...but I feel that if someone wants a no BS, heavy hitting, reliable, accurate and simple to operate rifle, that can make it through any SHTF scenario then an M14 is the best option.
Wellllll.....it's AN option, at least.

"Best" is a relative term, and is often the enemy of "more than good enough."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Jon View Post
The best advice I can give for any rifle is that you must train with it. The best rifle in the world is useless unless you are taking it to the range and really shooting the crap put of it, shooting from different positions, on the move, simulating failures and every scenario you can think of. If the choice is between an M14 or a cheap AR with 1000 of ammo, then get the AR and learn how to shoot.
So we are in agreement on that.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckleberry View Post
.

This might not be the lowest priced AR-10 on the market, but it does come with a transferable lifetime warranty.

https://www.k-var.com/windham-weapon...ekly_3_18_2019



.
That is a light AR .308 at 7.5 pounds
Chrome lined barrel big plus
Price is fair
The BCG is nebulous. Only says 158 steel. But that is an easy fix.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:32 PM
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The AR platform is easier to get into because you can buy parts as you have money and build one, there are more parts to choose from like triggers, barrels, etc, easier to put an optic and light on, easy to build, and MUCH more versatile. You can keep a couple different uppers depending on what you want to do. You can also work on them without taking them to a gunsmith.

Prices on parts are still going down and haven't reached the bottom yet, like AR15s have.

If you buy any of the other platforms, you're limited to just a few manufacturers for each platform or for the parts for those rifles. There are countless manufacturers for the AR platform.

IMHO the only advantage an M1A (or a FAL or anything else) has over the AR-308 is they have historical value. While I DO see the value in that, in terms of just having a 308 for shooting, the AR wins hands down.

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