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Old 09-20-2018, 08:08 AM
jrtatonka jrtatonka is offline
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So, my house is over 200 years old 16"-18" thick stone walls. We are working on repointing the mortar joints to seal it up.
Steel shutters could be made to cover the doors and windows, etc.
The house is going to need a new roof in the next few years. The plan was a new standing seam metal roof, BUT!!!
How would you go about making it so the house becomes a fallout /radiation shelter?
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:29 PM
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It would be somewhat difficult to create a high level of protection shelter without really extensive and expensive modifications.

16" -18" stone would provide, at best, a PF of 150 to 250, depending on many details. Which is certainly much better than wood frame.

With steel shutters and either more stone blocks, solid concrete blocks, or sandbags to fill the window and door openings, that level of protection can be maintained fairly easily.

You would need to check for any spots where there are gaps in the wall. Points of penetration, vent openings, points where the wall is thinner for some reason, etc.

For the roof, there are a couple of options. The least expensive and easiest, if you are set up to have pressure water system if the grid fails, is to have a washdown system for the roof.

I am not sure if the place is single story or two or more. The washdown system would work moderately well for two or more stories, not so much single story.

While there would be radiation penetration while the fallout was coming down, not allowing it to accumulate will lessen the danger. But if the fallout is heavy, lasts a long while, or is very high level radiation, you would probably accumulate too high of a dose to be safe.

The other option is to add mass from wall to wall and end to end of the building before putting on the new roof. Any amount will help. If the joists will support it, and they just might the way they built 200 years ago, put down 3/4" plywood if the joists are closely spaced, or build a platform to bridge the space if the joists are wide space heavy timbers. Then the same as for the windows and doors. Concrete blocks or sandbags. You would really have to be careful here not to overload the structure.

Depending on the pitch of the roof, and the design, you might build a sort of box between and under the rafters, creating a closed space that can hold the blocks or sandbags. By adding additional rafter supports, the existing roof structure would not be carrying the weight, the new construction would. And being a triangle, if you tie the walls together with cable so they cannot spread, it would support itself fairly well.

Another option that would use much less material, is to build an arch shaped box in the attic, much the same way, and fill it with sandbags. Still need to tie the walls together, but the arched box would use less materials.

It simply might not be practical depending on the ceiling, attic, and roof structures. If they are complicated or there is not much room, it could not be done.

The only other thing I can think of is to create a shelter room inside the home, taking advantage of the thick walls. Add similar walls inside, and create a lowered ceiling to give space for mass above. The extra walls would have to be on existing under floor supports, or some would need to be added to support the weight.

Not very good options, I know, but the best I can think of at the moment.

Just my opinion.


The other option is to
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:59 AM
jrtatonka jrtatonka is offline
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I was thinking a poured concrete roof would negate the effects of fallout (Yes you can have a pitched concrete roof)
It's a 2 story house with full attic.
Problem with my property is that it is relatively flat, and with FEMA redrawing the flood maps a few years ago, my place is now in a 100yr flood plain. So there is no possibility of any kind of underground shelter, unless I were to excavate 2' build a shelter, and then have mountains of dirt brought in. (it would kinda stand out like a sore thumb)
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:22 PM
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Take a look at the 'double wall shelter' in MP-15 in the attachment. Also the other attachments to show multiple use shelter designs. Combining some of the design elements could create a shelter that blends in, and can even be DIY built over time.

Depending on the level of protection you want, the fill width and overhead cover can be adjusted from the 20" listed in MP-15 to as much as 5' if space is available, and the fill material is.

The 8'x8' size can be extended one way without much trouble. But if both dimensions need to be larger, columns every 8' with a beam on top of them is required to support the roof. No more than an 8' span in any direction.

Much less fill is needed if the double wall system is used, rather than mounding over a shelter. Plus, the exterior finish can be anything. To match the house, to contrast it, to enhance the look of the property, whatever. Can even add some attachment points for ivy or other climbing plants to grow up and over it.

Since there is a good chance of flooding, by putting good doors at both the first entrance as well as the entrance into the shelter proper, and having a protected roof hatch and/or exterior stairs, a severe flood could be survived on top of the shelter. This works even better if the outermost of the two walls is extended upward to enclose the area. Can even make it look like a castle wall if wanted. Probably not.

But who would think that a nice garden shed, with a small garden on top, with a gazebo, say, is a bonafide semi-deluxe fallout and disaster shelter? Especially since the announcement of being in the 100-year floodplain, building a thick-walled place to get above the flood waters might seem pretty natural.

Just my opinion.
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File Type: pdf H-12-2.pdf (806.0 KB, 32 views)
File Type: pdf MP-15 The Family Fallout Shelter.pdf (3.09 MB, 43 views)
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtatonka View Post
I was thinking a poured concrete roof would negate the effects of fallout (Yes you can have a pitched concrete roof)
It's a 2 story house with full attic.
Problem with my property is that it is relatively flat, and with FEMA redrawing the flood maps a few years ago, my place is now in a 100yr flood plain. So there is no possibility of any kind of underground shelter, unless I were to excavate 2' build a shelter, and then have mountains of dirt brought in. (it would kinda stand out like a sore thumb)
The few inches of concrete you could pour as a roof without substantial support or reinforcement wouldn't make much difference. If you're using lite-deck, you need even more of it because it's not as dense as traditional mixes. The Aboveground Double-Wall Shelter in the MP-15 document Jerry mentioned is going to probably be the best option in your situation. You could use it as a root cellar until it's needed for its intended purpose. You need mass... and mass = weight.
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