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Old 10-18-2017, 09:26 AM
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Not in this timeline cleatis. At least not yesterday at the WalMart in central America.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:29 AM
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A Faraday cage does not need to be grounded to work. Grounding the cage could actually cause even bigger problems. Consider the Faraday suits that the Helicopter power line repairman wear. They are not grounded to the earth. If they grounded the suit or helicopter to the ground, a short circuit would be created. Items inside of the Faraday cage must also be isolated from the cage.

Aircraft are not grounded. The aircraft skin acts like a Faraday cage to protect occupants and internal components.
http://readynutrition.com/resources/...tegy_20092016/
This is what I am talking about. I am NO EXPERT on this subject, was not saying a car is or is like a Faraday. I think the tires would cause it to not work as a faraday but I have no clue. As far as grounding faradays, many things I have read say you should. Guess we will have to all compare notes after we live thru one. Till then, all I am doing is guessing.......
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:34 AM
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Not in this timeline cleatis. At least not yesterday at the WalMart in central America.
Central America?!?!?!? Maybe that's the thing. You mean below Mexico or in the middle of the country? I am in Missouri and we got them here. Did you see the picture?
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:37 AM
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Best not to get EMP advice from a Nutrition Site. If they post an article on Hog Washing prior to slaughtering, I'd read that.
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Old 10-18-2017, 09:41 AM
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Best not to get EMP advice from a Nutrition Site. If they post an article on Hog Washing prior to slaughtering, I'd read that.
Hey! You take what you can get! Like I said, just something I read and found it interesting.... Now, should you ground the hog before you wash it?
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Old 10-18-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
http://readynutrition.com/resources/...tegy_20092016/
This is what I am talking about. I am NO EXPERT on this subject, was not saying a car is or is like a Faraday. I think the tires would cause it to not work as a faraday but I have no clue. As far as grounding faradays, many things I have read say you should. Guess we will have to all compare notes after we live thru one. Till then, all I am doing is guessing.......
I have a lot of experience designing and testing Faraday cages. It's my opinion that a cage should not be grounded for best EMP isolation. There are other experienced engineers who argue that it should be grounded.

For cages such as the famous sealed garbage can or metal box I would not ground. These are reasonably good cages and thus a low resistance path to ground should be avoided to minimize currents in the metal exterior. (This is my argument for not grounding.)

In the case of a pole barn or garage I would ground as it will not be a very good cage but it could provide substantial shielding. Thus I would want the surge currents to be shunted through the exterior metal into ground. (This can't be avoided anyway as many parts are grounded durning construction and can't be isolated.)

As to grounding the car, it's unlikely a wire or chain to the ground has much effect but I'd prefer not to have a low resistance ground path from the car to the ground when parked in a shelter. It would be more likely for the surge to arc from something like a metal support to the car body and then ground.

To paraphrase Yogi Berra, this is 90% science and the other half is art.
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:45 AM
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For some reason, I'm in 135% agreement with the above.
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Old 10-18-2017, 02:14 PM
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Both the US and USSR have done high altitude nuke tests. At the time they did not seriously consider the EMP effects. But after analyzing unintended damage to electrical equipment many miles away both countries did significant research to understand what happened. None of the research included additional high altitude nuclear explosions. In part because by that time they had agreed to stop above ground detonations.

The US government had some very large simulator test beds which were used for some testing of vehicles. Results varied. To my knowledge none of the tests included efforts to determine latent failures as had been observed in equipment exposed to actual nuclear detonations. US high altitude nuclear tests were in the pacific over water in a remote area so very little equipment was exposed. There was some unintended impact in Hawaii and also onboard observation aircraft closer to the explosion. The Soviet tests however were over land and a number of military and civilian vehicles were damaged. In some cases they failed a few weeks or months later and failure analysis attributed problems to insulation breakdown in generators, alternators, and starters due to the EMP surge event. Most likely the E1 pulse.
Interesting.. I would like to read more on those tests see what my brain might pick up or redundantly ask further in question sadly maybe.

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. . . and all of those tests were prior to the widespread use of integrated circuits.
Well there is a reason why the Russians still to this day use a lot of cathode tubes in equipment. Its not because they are behind in Technology but because supposedly they are EMP proof. May be why everything is ridiculously oversized too. hmm
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:22 PM
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Due to all there overland above ground tests, maybe they have much better EMP data.
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Old 10-18-2017, 04:42 PM
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Default How do you protect a new car from an EMP?

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Interesting.. I would like to read more on those tests see what my brain might pick up or redundantly ask further in question sadly maybe.







Well there is a reason why the Russians still to this day use a lot of cathode tubes in equipment. Its not because they are behind in Technology but because supposedly they are EMP proof. May be why everything is ridiculously oversized too. hmm


CRTs still have circuitry in them, you might be thinking of vacuum tubes. Tubes are supposedly more resistant to direct coupling of the pulse into the circuit, but if you have a big surge come in through an antenna or power line, it can still blow stuff up even if itís vacuum tube.
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:44 PM
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Well there is a reason why the Russians still to this day use a lot of cathode tubes in equipment. Its not because they are behind in Technology but because supposedly they are EMP proof. May be why everything is ridiculously oversized too. hmm
Tubes are not surge proof. They are capable of surviving higher surge levels. During the 60s testing both the US and USSR had damage to tube circuits.
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:19 AM
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Grounding of Faraday cages basically comes down to:

1. If there is any possibility of a ground connection occurring during an EMP , then steps should be taken to create an extremely high quality and very robust ground system.

2. If the Farady cage is fully isolated from any possible grounding, the no ground at all is better.

The problem is accidental grounding by not understanding the way electrical current flows, especially those that make up the EMP itself, AND those it induces in conductors.

A Faraday cage sitting on a concrete garage floor is grounded, but very poorly. If an EMP occurs, part of the induced surface charge on the object will be flowing to the ground, but so little and so slowly that the extremely high energy on the surface can burn a hole in the metal, create eddy currents, pass through the metal to the inside of the of the cage.

If that Faraday cage is properly grounded, the surface charge will go to ground quickly enough and completely enough that it will not damage or breach the cage.

If the Faraday cage is well away from anything that could conduct to ground directly, and far enough away from anything that could allow an arc to go from the cage to it and to ground, then a surface effect will occur, but since it cannot flow, no damage will be done.

But be aware that not being in touch with an earth ground is not adequate. The cage has to be far enough away from, or insulated very well from, anything that does go to earth grounď because all of those conductors will be energized, and if close enough, with the hiģh levels of energy of an EMP, current can arc across a significant distance, resulting in the type of current flow that can damage the Faraway cage.

A piece of cardboard, or even thin rubber is not sufficient distance or insulation from a concrete floor in contact with the earth.

If close to a metal pipe, or wiring in a wall, since they will be energized by the EMP too, it is very likely that an arc will occur from the wire or pipe to the cage, and then to another metallic object, again creating damaging current flow.

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-23-2017, 01:58 AM
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You're better off buying an old mechanically injected diesel pickup (12 valve Cummins, 6.2 gm or pre powerstroke Ford are some) with a standard transmission and parking it on a hill. Even better, you could convert it to a pneumatic starter. Now you have a vehicle that needs no functioning electrical components to run, you can roll start it on a hill and as long as you have a sealed air system you will be able to start it, plus diesel lasts a lot longer than gas and you can substitute various types of oil for fuel. A multi fuel diesel (think deuce and a half) would also be a good option. Another idea is a kinetic spring loaded starter but that lacks the convenience of air start.
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Old 10-23-2017, 06:35 AM
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The starter system and alternator are made of fairly robust parts. Always good to have a spare voltage regulator.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Magoo View Post
Does anybody know if there is a simple way to protect a new car from an electromagnetic pulse?

I do have a brick garage and a metal pole barn with a cement floor.

Thanks, I am getting more and more concerned about what the "little rocket man"(Kim Jong Un) is capable of doing to put us all in harms way.

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Old 11-06-2017, 07:57 AM
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Thanks Jerry, interesting comments
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Old 12-18-2017, 05:12 AM
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that is absolutely Awesome!
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Old 12-18-2017, 06:03 AM
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Steam engine truck.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_wagon

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Old 12-18-2017, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklin View Post
Better have some spare solar panels well protected because I think deployed solar panels are about the most exposed and at risk equipment out there. Almost impossible to protect from the E1 pulse.
Some fairly extensive testing has shown the opposite to be true. http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/no...N/SDAN0047.pdf
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:00 AM
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That is reasonable. In addition to the solar cell being a current device, protected panels also have bypass diodes.

Logic circuits have the greatest vulnerability to an EMP.
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