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Old 07-02-2015, 05:45 PM
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These types of threads always let me know who actually knows what they're talking about and who is blowing smoke. The report is U//FOUO. FOUO stuff is put online all the time, sometimes purposely (whether right or wrong) so other people with official need to use it can get it easier. I think we shouldn't be too worried about the fact that the report is out there. We should probably focus on what it says.
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
These types of threads always let me know who actually knows what they're talking about and who is blowing smoke. The report is U//FOUO. FOUO stuff is put online all the time, sometimes purposely (whether right or wrong) so other people with official need to use it can get it easier. I think we shouldn't be too worried about the fact that the report is out there. We should probably focus on what it says.
Agreed, and from what I was told it was not supposed to have been released and there is an investigation about it now.
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Old 07-02-2015, 06:39 PM
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They need to abandon the F-35 and start over. Just another Trillion dollars down the rat hole.

Go back to making specialized aircraft.
An updated A-10 Warthog.
Update the F-15, 16 and 18.
More F-22's

If you need VTOL, we already have these things called helicopters.
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Old 07-03-2015, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by zorost View Post
I'm not sure what you are arguing. The Zero kicked ass and utterly dominated us 1v1, at least until 1944, at which point it only had a slight advantage over our fighters. Then I believe it fell behind around 1945. Of course, during most of the war our "tactics" were to produce a **** ton of planes and overwhelm them.
Do some more reading beyond "Aces Over the Pacific".

First of all, at the beginning of the war, (Coral Sea, Guadalcanal) the old pre-war Wildcat racked up a 3:1 or better kill ratio against the best pilots Japan ever had flying Zeros. As the training disparity widened later in the war it got to be 7:1. Why? Because our guys wouldn't fight fair. We never tried to dogfight a Zero. We used the Wildcat's superior service ceiling and dive capability to come down on him out of the sun, smack him before he's aware, and keep on going until there was breathing room to climb back up for another go. A Zero couldn't dive worth a damn vs. the Wildcat. P-38 drivers used the same tactics, and did very well, too. Read Tommy McGuire's combat handbook on P-38 tactics. Also, we used the "finger-four" formation, while the Zero pilot kept to the old "vic" of three. Our formation let us defend better against being jumped from behind. We also commonly used the "Thatch Weave" to keep the Zeros from getting close enough to take a shot. Our flight discipline kept pairs together, whereas the Japanese tended to break up into a melee of "every man for himself".

Point being that denigrating the F-35 because it doesn't do well playing by the F-16's rules is a fallacy. As a wise man once said, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck".

BTW I had the pleasure of watching the maiden flight of the first production STOVL F-35 while I was working at L/M FW before I retired. Two F-16 chase planes formed up on him as he lifted off and went into a steep climbout. Both F-16s had to go to burner to keep up. Whether that means anything or not, that's what I saw with my own eyes.

Cheerio !
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Old 07-03-2015, 01:39 PM
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They need to abandon the F-35 and start over. Just another Trillion dollars down the rat hole.

Go back to making specialized aircraft.
An updated A-10 Warthog.
Update the F-15, 16 and 18.
More F-22's

If you need VTOL, we already have these things called helicopters.
The F-35 is being developed for the long range strike role (think stealthy A-6). The current planes do not perform as advertised, and some of the ground attack systems still have problems, but it's all the plane were going to get for the next 30 yrs.

The unsurmountable limitation of the F35 design seems to be trying to replace the A-10. Nothing is ever going to replace the A-10. If we ever decide that we needed a new anti- Armor attack plane, we will just have to start a new program.

The F-35 is never going to out dogfight a F-16 or F-15 either. Thats the job of the F-22.

So all we need to do is finish the work on the ground attack systems and keep our current A-10s in inventory.
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Old 07-03-2015, 02:45 PM
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They need to rename it then and remove the "F" designation, because it ain't a fighter.
And it will never get within visual range of the enemy, so they should remove the gun, which they still don't have working yet.

Then you are left with a wildly expensive bomb truck. With extremely limited payload capacity. Doesn't even do that role well enough.

SCRAP IT! Whatever money was going to be continually spent on it would pay for all the stuff I mentioned. They are still many billions of dollars from getting this thing even operational.
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Old 07-03-2015, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
They need to abandon the F-35 and start over. Just another Trillion dollars down the rat hole.

Go back to making specialized aircraft.
An updated A-10 Warthog.
Update the F-15, 16 and 18.
More F-22's

If you need VTOL, we already have these things called helicopters.
Reviving the A-10 in any form is probably a non-starter. I worked on that program too, (lower outboard wing skin where all the hardpoints are). The machine tools that made those large parts have been scrapped. (And frankly, with respect to the Farnham spar mills that did that wing skin, good riddance.) Not only that, but acres of similar machines that could take over are also gone, as are the people who knew how to build them. You'd have to start over fresh, so what you'd be doing is designing a whole new narrow-focus airplane.
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Old 07-03-2015, 08:02 PM
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Reviving the A-10 in any form is probably a non-starter. I worked on that program too, (lower outboard wing skin where all the hardpoints are). The machine tools that made those large parts have been scrapped. (And frankly, with respect to the Farnham spar mills that did that wing skin, good riddance.) Not only that, but acres of similar machines that could take over are also gone, as are the people who knew how to build them. You'd have to start over fresh, so what you'd be doing is designing a whole new narrow-focus airplane.
Take the old plans and drawings for the A-10 over to S. Korea and they will build you a new and improved version for a good price.

You need a healthy industrial economy to build these planes, and they have it now. They are a smart, well educated and motivated people with a thriving industrial and high tech manufacturing base.
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:14 PM
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Reviving the A-10 in any form is probably a non-starter. I worked on that program too, (lower outboard wing skin where all the hardpoints are). The machine tools that made those large parts have been scrapped. (And frankly, with respect to the Farnham spar mills that did that wing skin, good riddance.) Not only that, but acres of similar machines that could take over are also gone, as are the people who knew how to build them. You'd have to start over fresh, so what you'd be doing is designing a whole new narrow-focus airplane.
New wings are being made for the A-10 so your statement of non-existent tooling isn't accurate. The new wings are built by Boeing and are improvements over the original design. This is not new information.

http://www.hill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123291346
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Old 07-03-2015, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by George Newbill View Post
Basically the F-35 will fire first and down the older generation aircraft before they get a shot off. The test was stilted as in combat the F-35s would not be caught off guard. Yes if caught the F-35 would have to turn and run. Unless the F-16 was very close the F-35 could escape turn and re-engage. Now the pilots know the strengths and weaknesses of their respective aircraft and I suspect that they will pick approaches and tactics to maximise their chances of coming home to Mommy.
Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat using sensors to identify enemy aircraft has been the holy grail of air combat for decades. It has never worked. Reliable IFF systems simply don't exist...never have...never will. IFF systems require daily code changes worldwide. These codes are classified and can be dumped by the pilot...on purpose...or accidently. This happened ALL the time. Plus...IFF systems malfunction like any other system...and without the aircraft returning a coded call to another friendly airplane means it's an enemy...whether it is or not. This is why "most" air to air engagements require visual confirmation.

I was involved in USAF fighter maintenance for 22 years and air to air engagements were always practiced. To field an airplane (F-35) that can't dogfight with older generation fighters is folly. AND...the F-35 is too expensive to build in large numbers. This airplane could cost us dearly in a real war. It can't pull G's...it can't turn...it can't run. It's a pig...pretty pig...but a pig.

A little info on IFF: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ystems/iff.htm

Added: The link above is incorrect as far as pilots coding the IFF system. maintenance folks "key" in the daily IFF codes before the first flight of the day. If the pilot accidentally dumps the code during a sortie...he/she can't re-enter the code. The aircraft must return to base for maintenance to re-key it.

Last edited by thess02; 07-04-2015 at 09:12 AM.. Reason: added info
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Old 07-04-2015, 01:12 AM
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New wings are being made for the A-10 so your statement of non-existent tooling isn't accurate. The new wings are built by Boeing and are improvements over the original design. This is not new information.

http://www.hill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123291346
Glad to hear that. Means that somebody preserved some of those big gantry mills. I wonder if they're still able to get the extrusion that the original plane used, or are they hogging them from solid?
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Old 07-04-2015, 09:08 AM
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Glad to hear that. Means that somebody preserved some of those big gantry mills. I wonder if they're still able to get the extrusion that the original plane used, or are they hogging them from solid?
From what I gather the tooling is new. The new wings have beefed up main spars.
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Old 07-04-2015, 04:08 PM
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And being made with CNC the parts will be far more accurate. One battle I fought for two years was trying to get a badly designed tracer-controlled machine to cut well enough that the parts didn't come out too thin on the one hand, or overweight on the other. We of course cut them too thick, because too thin meant scrapping the extrusion. Then we had a gang of guys thinning-out the lumps with jitterbug sanders to get the weight down! Oh, those were the days !

And I see that they converted all the drawings into solid models. That was a hell of a lot of work! So there's hope that more could be built from scratch.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:55 AM
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You're welcome. Let me know whenever you need help with your reading comprehension.
more like pointing out a fifth party's posting [beside me, robot, you and sinless]...

also sinless asked robot to take down 'his' link, which was not referring to deadmeat's link
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:03 AM
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Cant we all just get along, LOL

Never imagined this thread would get the input it did.....................
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:19 AM
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Cant we all just get along, LOL

Never imagined this thread would get the input it did.....................
not really, attempts to censor a open source and privately owned website are kind of inexcusable. especially when only a link is provided and not the content itself.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:46 AM
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I'm still to close to "loose lips sink ships."

I know, by the time we found the page, "they" already had a copy under review by a team of analysis.
__________________

Time to repeal the 17th.
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Old 07-06-2015, 10:48 AM
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I'm still to close to "loose lips sink ships."

I know, by the time we found the page, "they" already had a copy under review by a team of analysis.
and you are assuming that china doesnt already have this information... im pretty sure that given the fact that they can quite simply take 18 million personnel security questionnaires from OPM they can probably get FOUO info off of a internet enabled LM/NG/Boeing/Raytheon network.

if the information actually had value if spilled, it would have been classified.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:32 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cORX4hdHEsg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_vXqtCkVy8

"Russia can see our stealth planes now, using old style long wavelength radar"
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:10 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cORX4hdHEsg

The $300 Billion Betrayal - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_vXqtCkVy8

"Russia can see our stealth planes now, using old style long wavelength radar"
Did you even bother to check the source?

Both links come from things that specialize in sensationalist crap.

Also the first has a 2008 date from a website that hasn't had a new post in 3 years(newsproject.org) the second is dated 2013 and their YT channel has nothing but Death to all, America doomed, Russia doomed, China doomed, the world doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

Also I'm a french model.
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