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Old 08-01-2012, 01:43 AM
MzNobody MzNobody is offline
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I use a UTG flashlight on my rifle and it puts out 150 lumens. It's been through hell and I've never had a problem yet...well I had to replace the bulb when I first got it but that was it. Still works fine and will light up a room like no other. i don't see a point in spending 500 bucks on a surefire flashlight when I can pay 75 bucks for something almost as good. It's a no brainer. Even if I had the money, I wouldn't spend that much on a surefire.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MzNobody View Post
I use a UTG flashlight on my rifle and it puts out 150 lumens. It's been through hell and I've never had a problem yet...well I had to replace the bulb when I first got it but that was it. Still works fine and will light up a room like no other. i don't see a point in spending 500 bucks on a surefire flashlight when I can pay 75 bucks for something almost as good. It's a no brainer. Even if I had the money, I wouldn't spend that much on a surefire.
The laws of diminishing returns apply, but the Surefire definitely isn't "paying for nothing".
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by sgtdusmc View Post
Lights can be bullet magnets
Very true, but not everything is in the context of "combat". You are so many hundreds of times more likely to shoot some animal after dark than an "enemy soldier" or the equivalent in a running gun-battle.

That said, not ID'ing a target in your home (God forbid it comes to that for you, me, or anyone) is a great way to end up poking holes in loved ones.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sgtdusmc View Post
Lights can be bullet magnets
They sure can be when not employed properly. Putting a light on a gun and not knowing the proper way to use it is the same as buying a gun and not knowing how to properly emply it's use.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:22 PM
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Emply indeed.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Unobtanium View Post
The laws of diminishing returns apply, but the Surefire definitely isn't "paying for nothing".
Well I havent spent 500 bucks on a Surefire and that 75 dollar UTG has lasted me through *everything* with no failures...just sayin.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:00 AM
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In today's environment of machined aluminum being common and light 'guts' being cheap, Surefire's are as much of a mindset as a product line.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:26 AM
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Surefire X300

I like it because it can be easily removed from my rifle and placed on my pistol if need be... I don't much care for using a light on a pistol though for ccw. For that role I use a hand-held light.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MzNobody View Post
Well I havent spent 500 bucks on a Surefire and that 75 dollar UTG has lasted me through *everything* with no failures...just sayin.
Except that time the bulb needed to be replaced, yes? Is it useful out to about 100 yards? Does it weigh only 5 oz or so? What kind of warranty/company support comes with it? How is the beam profile...massive hotspot, or narrow hotspot, what?

I don't think that the returns are linear with money spent, but the Surefire definitely does give more utility than the UTG.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jida View Post
In today's environment of machined aluminum being common and light 'guts' being cheap, Surefire's are as much of a mindset as a product line.
I agree except for their TIR optics found on the X300 and Scout and now others, I believe, and mount integration of the Scout series. I have yet to find anything comparable.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:16 AM
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The TIR (an optic which collects most of the light and focuses it into a hotspot) is a very good option however it is not something only Surefire uses. For weapon lights the only reason why I would want to have a tight hotspot would be on a rifle outside of 50 yards.

For general use I would rather have a good solid fill with a diffuse hotspot. The last thing you want to do in complete darkness is develop tunnel vision. The brighter the hotspot then the greater the chance that you will stare at it and lose sight on things on the periphery.

Now this is just my experience with the lights. Others may not have this same issue or their brains may work differently. If you want to test the theory, tonight, when it is completely dark, stand in a room with some general moonlight level light in it, light a lighter and stare at it.

See if you can make out anything on the periphery of your vision. If you can then maybe it is not an issue. If you can't and all you see is the flame then turn the lighter off and see how long it takes for your eyes to clear. This would happen with a bright hotspot as well in the middle of the night.

A light with 80-130 lumens max, good spill, ~2 hours of run time and the ability to use cheap to lithium batteries is going to serve you well out to 25 yards or so.

Another thing to mention is that if your primary home defense is a pistol then putting a light on it is debatable. In order to illuminate something you also put it into the line of fire. Carrying a good flashlight in the Harries grip with a pistol allows for you to illuminate things without targeting them.

With a shotgun just get an offset mount and a 1" tube diameter quality light that accepts lithium primaries. Lithium is lighter than Alkaline or rechargeables and won't beat the springs and boards to hell. As long as you can slide you hand up to turn it on and off this is all you really need.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jida View Post
The TIR (an optic which collects most of the light and focuses it into a hotspot) is a very good option however it is not something only Surefire uses. For weapon lights the only reason why I would want to have a tight hotspot would be on a rifle outside of 50 yards. That's what I use it for. Who else has TIR? I have seen lenses, but not TIR.

For general use I would rather have a good solid fill with a diffuse hotspot. The last thing you want to do in complete darkness is develop tunnel vision. The brighter the hotspot then the greater the chance that you will stare at it and lose sight on things on the periphery. +1, which is why I love my scout. Huge wall of light with a diffuser, or focused hot-spot about twice as large as any reflector that head-size produces that I have seen.

Now this is just my experience with the lights. Others may not have this same issue or their brains may work differently. If you want to test the theory, tonight, when it is completely dark, stand in a room with some general moonlight level light in it, light a lighter and stare at it.

See if you can make out anything on the periphery of your vision. If you can then maybe it is not an issue. If you can't and all you see is the flame then turn the lighter off and see how long it takes for your eyes to clear. This would happen with a bright hotspot as well in the middle of the night.

A light with 80-130 lumens max, good spill, ~2 hours of run time and the ability to use cheap to lithium batteries is going to serve you well out to 25 yards or so. +1

Another thing to mention is that if your primary home defense is a pistol then putting a light on it is debatable. In order to illuminate something you also put it into the line of fire. Carrying a good flashlight in the Harries grip with a pistol allows for you to illuminate things without targeting them. +1. It allows you to get off the X sooner, or never be ON it, in the first place. Hand-held FTW on a pistol IMO.

With a shotgun just get an offset mount and a 1" tube diameter quality light that accepts lithium primaries. Lithium is lighter than Alkaline or rechargeables and won't beat the springs and boards to hell. As long as you can slide you hand up to turn it on and off this is all you really need.
My light is primarily for vermin, secondary for any kind of SD use. For indoors though, my scout wearing an F04 diffuser works VERY well.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:44 AM
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Agreed.

There are no other 'tir' lights since that is a brand name. Look up 'aspheric' lenses. It takes all of the light and just throws a hot spot. If you like to shoot over 50 yards and it is vermin control this might be a good option for you.
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:09 PM
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Except that time the bulb needed to be replaced, yes? Is it useful out to about 100 yards? Does it weigh only 5 oz or so? What kind of warranty/company support comes with it? How is the beam profile...massive hotspot, or narrow hotspot, what?

I don't think that the returns are linear with money spent, but the Surefire definitely does give more utility than the UTG.
Yeah that $3.00 light bulb a couple years ago was broke me. Plus, I purchased 20 replacements and haven't use any since the first one. Furthermore, flashlights are mostly used in night urban environments so the need to be 100 yards away is stretching it. It produces the same luminosity that a Surfire for quite a few hundred dollars less. I've used the damn thing in SAND, SNOW, RAIN, you name it so now what? Look for yourself and stop expecting others to give you all the details:
http://www.leapers.com/index.php
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:14 PM
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I use an Insight M3X. It's a great light, mounts directly to a 1913 rail without any other necessary mounts, is BRIGHT and light weight. It's unobtrusive, and uses little rail space.

Here is mine mounted on my M4gery:
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by *Paladin* View Post
I use an Insight M3X. It's a great light, mounts directly to a 1913 rail without any other necessary mounts, is BRIGHT and light weight. It's unobtrusive, and uses little rail space.

Here is mine mounted on my M4gery:
The M3X was my first light. I was able to make hits about to about 30 yards using iron sights on my AR15A2.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MzNobody View Post
Yeah that $3.00 light bulb a couple years ago was broke me. Plus, I purchased 20 replacements and haven't use any since the first one. Furthermore, flashlights are mostly used in night urban environments so the need to be 100 yards away is stretching it. It produces the same luminosity that a Surfire for quite a few hundred dollars less. I've used the damn thing in SAND, SNOW, RAIN, you name it so now what? Look for yourself and stop expecting others to give you all the details:
http://www.leapers.com/index.php
I prefer LED because they don't break bulbs, and instead of about 20 hours, you get 50,000+ hours of bulb life. I understand that you can replace the bulb, but not breaking is better in the first place.

I have only just now been living in the city, and am changing that next year. Flashlights on weapons in Rural areas have great use, if you have ever: had a chicken coop. Lived where hogs do. Hunt animals at night.

I do not know how many lumens the UTG unit actually produces, but my Surefire puts out an honest 180-200 OTF. Perhaps more importantly than how many lumens, is how they are managed. I have other custom LED modules in my 6P's that put out between 250 (Nichia 219 run at 1.7A) and 550 lumens (XM-L run at 2.8A). My M600C has better throw than my Nichia, and nearly as much throw as my XM-L module, just less spill. The hot-spot is a slight bit smaller, as well, as the XM-L pill produces a massive beam.

What TIR allows is for every little bit of light produced to be put to the intended use. When you can do that, you have awesome battery life and equal utility---even with less total output.

Surefire quotes 2.0 hours of "Tactical runtime", which is BS. You actually get around 90 minutes of run-time before it drops out of regulation. Surefire uses the "50 lumen" point as a cut-off instead of dropping out of regulation. So I can count on about 90 minutes of about 160-200 OTF lumen output that is very well managed with a TIR optic to produce a beam like this:

(Tree at 35 feet)

Here is how it does out to 400+ feet (far trees at 400+ feet, next-nearest trees at about 250 feet):




With the F04 unit, this surgical light management becomes a diffuse 180-200 lumen "wall of light". It's hard to take pictures of, but if you see it at night in the dark, or use it indoors, it is VERY impressive in its ability to disperse the beam and light up *everything* around you out to about 150 feet or so.

Now maybe your UTG offers this kind of performance regarding beam profile, output, run-time, and durability, and if so, I guess I'm overpaying and missing out. Do you have any beamshots from yours, or one like your UTG?
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:07 PM
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For a rifle, the Streamlight TRL-1HP is the way to go...

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Old 08-15-2019, 11:49 AM
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Surefire M600DF with Modlite OKW head. The throw is ridiculous.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...refire-m600df/
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:31 PM
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"there can be only one"
I personally don't have a rifle light, but if I did, Surefire.
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