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Old 07-31-2011, 11:27 AM
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Is this a tinfoil hat thing?

Have not noticed this in my area.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starfire5 View Post
What I'd like to know is - why are they spraying our area when we have a tropical system (probably soon to become a hurricane) headed our way??
They're not spraying anything. It's contrails from jets.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:41 AM
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Haven't seen any here in Texas either. We have been clear (and hot) as a bell for months. Clouds of any kind get us excited.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:43 AM
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I've never seen any.
Nothing on our vehicles but a little dirt and occasional bird doo.
The garden is doing great as usual.
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:55 AM
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They're not spraying anything. It's contrails from jets.
I guess you didn't read the post above from WGSNewnan!
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Old 07-31-2011, 11:55 AM
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we get con trails all the time... nothing special.

my buddy works as a civilian contractor for Edwards air force base out in the Mohave.

he saw the planes at one of the hangers and asked what they were.... the planes had giant hoops on the wings with sprayers in them. like i said earlier, they spray silver iodide in clouds to make them bigger. they have been doing it for decades.

mystery solved, now we can all take the tin foil off.

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Old 07-31-2011, 01:50 PM
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I guess you didn't read the post above from WGSNewnan!
I read all about "chemtrails" before. Spraying anything at high altitude like that would blow away. Anything that is actually "sprayed" from an aircraft is done at low altitude. This includes pesticides, vegicides, fire retardants, that crap they sprayed the gulf with to eat up the oil spill, and even mind numbing secret government sedatives.
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Old 07-31-2011, 01:55 PM
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Im deleting my subscription to this thread. This is like the 4th or 5th thread on this subject that gets up to 1000 responses and goes nowhere.

EDIT: ok wow i delete my subscription to this thread and people PM me saying "go read my response" LMAO

so here i am again....

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Old 07-31-2011, 02:00 PM
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Golly, Doug! If we all did that (EMP, BOV, BOL, PM's, etc., etc., etc., .......), there wouldn't be much of a forum left. I check out all threads that seem interesting even though they may be the umpteenth one I've seen. You never know when you might find a new morsel of information in one.
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Old 07-31-2011, 02:04 PM
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The Case Against Chemtrails
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






For over 8 years I lived directly under the approach paths for the parallel runways at Atlanta International Airport. I had a very clear view of arriving and departing aircraft of all makes and models. Day in and day out there were loads of airliners filling the blue sky.
For a die-hard aircraft enthusiast like myself, it was heaven.

These pictures were taken off the deck on the back of my house around 7 or 8 (sorry for the low quality):


American Airlines MD-88
---------------------


Delta Airlines 757-200
---------------------




We had some very elderly neighbors that lived in our neighborhood for over 50 years and report actually speak of getting healthier after they moved here from the northeast. These people were here before our town was on the map, and before Atlanta was a major international hub.

Your probably thinking; "Well of course they got healthier, the airports in the northeast are busier than little Atlanta!"
Sorry, but you're wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2...senger_traffic


Not a day goes by that I didn't see an aircraft flying at low altitude over our house.
How did I handle the noise? I didn't even notice it unless I wanted to, my brain had apparently tuned it out completely over the years.

Of course, sometimes I would get woken up when a DHL DC-8 flies over, but those are much louder than most aircraft.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/DHL-%28Astar-Air/McDonnell-DouglasDC-8-73%28F%29/0552827/&sid=817b1d33316c4b21ea36a99e2a982055

Atlanta International Airport is the home of the famous Atlanta VHF Omni-directional Radio Range (ATL VOR) which is used as a navigational fix for countless flights traveling to and from South America, the Caribbean, Florida and North America or beyond. Aircraft would fly at high altitudes leaving “chemtrails” over my area all the time. While most aircraft no longer use the old VOR-to-VOR navigation of the 70s and 80s, the ATL VOR remains a very commonly used navigational fix for air travel. Here is a live radar view of part of the Atlanta airspace provided by Flight-Aware. Flights in blue are to/from KATL; flights in green are in the vicinity: http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KATL
The radar is at the top.


After all this, I still take NO medication of any kind, I have excellent vision, no real hearing issues, no green warts growing all over my body, and no strange mutations.
Must be those Chemtrails.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



In this section will address some of the popular arguments for the Chemtrail myth.
------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 1

"How do you explain the trail's duration of many hours or length in 100's of miles. Vapor trails cool and dissipate almost instantly."



How long a contrail lingers is determined by a wide array of meteorological factors. Humidity, barometric pressure, temperature and winds aloft all play a part in the nature and duration of contrails.

It is basically the same thing that happens when you can see your breath on a cold day, sometimes your breath is only visible for an instant, sometimes it billows up and dissipates before eventually disappearing. (Our friends in the frozen north will understand this.)
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/gen99839.htm

Aircraft contrails are similar to this because the exhaust gas temperature can reach hundreds of degrees, and contain plenty of moisture. The surrounding air at high altitudes on the other hand can be hundreds of degrees below 0, and will always produce a contrail unless there is little or no moisture in the atmosphere.

------------------
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Chemtrail Argument 2

"I've seen commercial flights nearly side by side creating trails that disappear quickly, while the other lingers for hours. This is proof that one aircraft is spraying and the other isn't."



What you saw were two possibly different aircraft flying at different altitudes and thus in different weather conditions. The temperature gets cooler as you get higher, therefore the water vapor contrails will linger much longer at 36,000 feet as compared to 15,000 feet. The winds and humidity can also vary dramatically with only a few hundred feet difference.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 3

"Then why aren't there any "normal" clouds forming at the same time and altitude?"



There are ‘normal’ clouds at high altitudes.

Cirrus clouds almost always form above 26,000ft, except on colder days where they may be as low as 18,000 feet.
Generally however, these ‘low altitude cirrus clouds’ are classified as Cirrostratus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_cloud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrostratus

Cirrus clouds are commonly mistaken as chemtrail ‘blankets’ or 'haze'.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 4

"I never saw contrails 30 years ago, something is very different now."



What is different:


  • Aircraft
  • Aircraft Engines
  • Altitudes that aircraft fly at
  • Amount of air traffic
  • The national air traffic control system




30 years ago, aircraft and aircraft travel was dramatically different than it is now.
Namely, in the 1960s – 1980s the (Boeing only for example) 727, 737, and 747 were introduced.
The 707 was the one of the most popular aircraft of that time and I will use that as an example.

We will obviously focus on the engines because that is the source of these ‘different’ contrails.
The 707 used Turbofan JT8D-200 with 21,700 Pounds of thrust. The 727 used the same engines originally, and was actually the original rollout aircraft to use this type of engines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%....28JT8D-200.29

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...d23754bebb59a4


High-bypass engines are more likely to make robust contrails, than the low-bypass smoke-makers of the 60s, 70s, and parts of the 80s. Most if not all these planes have been retired, or upgraded and sold to cargo airlines.

There was much less air traffic during the 60s and 70s as well.
http://www.icao.int/icao/en/nr/1960/pio196023_e.pdf


I couldn’t find the exact number of hours flown in 2008, but you can’t tell me it is not more by hundreds of percents.
http://ec.europa.eu/research/transpo...graph_6448.gif

Maybe you didn’t see them at all, or you saw something different, but other people have.
http://contrailscience.com/thirty-co...rty-years-ago/

Contrails photographed and documented in early 1940s films:


“Vapour trails left by British bombers on route to attack flying-bomb sites encircle the dome of St. Paul's Cathedral. London, 1944.”
http://pro.corbis.com/Enlargement/En...er=imagegroups

There are more airplanes in the sky these days…
http://contrailscience.com/there-are...ts-in-the-air/

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 5

"We have seen satellite photos by NASA clearly showing Chemtrails in organized patterns over populated areas."



I guess they are talking about a photo like this: http://www.rense.com/1.imagesG/contrails_nasa_big.jpg

This increase of ‘chemtrails’ can be attributed to one thing; an increase of air travel, and the change of the Air Traffic Control System in 1995.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_E...AO_definitions

As I said at the beginning, most aircraft now have advanced flight management computer systems that use predetermined Latitude/Longitude waypoints to get the aircraft to where it is going, but they still use ATL and other VOR radios as waypoints, with the NAV radios as backup.

There is a VOR radio, or common waypoints at virtually all airports above regional.
VORs don’t even have to be at airports…
Heres a random Google images photo of a VOR transmitter: http://www.triodetic.com/Photos/Web%...Photos/VOR.jpg

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 6

"If these are really commercial aircraft, then why are some contrails vertical?"



They are not vertical.
A flight in the distance coming straight at you is most likely flying straight and level, but because they are coming up over the horizon, it appears they are leaving vertical contrails.
This is because the earth is round.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 7

"This picture proves that the government is using commercial aircraft to spray chemicals over cities: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...-LR/0855967/L/ . "



I have gotten this one a lot recently, and it can be explained easily.
What you are seeing is a Boeing 777-200 aircraft fitted with advanced flight-test instrumentation, measuring equipment and ballast tanks that are filled with water to simulate the weight of a full load of passengers and cargo.

This method of testing has been used for many years.
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/02...-boeing-747-8/

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 8

"How do you explain the documented traces of Barium Oxide in the air of large cities?"



First of all, the Military developed a method of reducing jet emissions using Barium Oxide in 1995.
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=get...fier=ADA294773


It is widely known that a type of Barium is used in the manufacture of rubber and plastics, which is common in parts of aircraft fuel tanks, and fuel storage containers on the ground.
Generally, the manufactures of fuel tank parts don’t worry about getting a little barium in jet fuel, they are not expecting it to be drank…

Barium is also a very widely used substance in industrial manufacturing, so it is not surprising to find traces of Barium Oxide in the air.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 9

"Traces of aluminum have been found in our air and water supply. This is clear evidence that the government is spraying aluminum particulate to control the weather. "



Aluminum is a VERY common metal that aircraft parts are made from.
Not only is Aluminum used in aircraft parts, but cars, trains, buses, houses, large buildings, sewer systems etc.
It is a lightweight metal that is prized for its strength to weight ratio.

Aluminum is here to stay folks and its all around you, even in the computer you are reading this on. Just because someone found traces of aluminum in the environment does not mean it is being sprayed on us.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 10

"Chemtrails leave large shadows and dark lines in the atmosphere, this is not natural and normal contrails don’t do this."



I’ll let this web-page do the debunking of this: http://contrailscience.com/contrails...es-chemtrails/

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 11

"Photographes have been taken that clearly show aircraft making grid patterns over cities, this can only be explained as a coordinated attack on our population."



I had typed up a long explanation for this, but after 3rd editing, I decided I would just show you the following videos and live radar maps:







http://flightaware.com/live/

There are thousands upon thousands of aircraft airborne at ANY GIVEN TIME, they are bound to cross each others path once in a while.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 12

"We see airshow aircraft releasing smoke and gas all the time, why couldn’t the government do it?"



First of all, I never said the government COULDN’T do it, I’m sure if they wanted to they could with their own equipment, but it just doesn't happen.
Again, Contrailscience.com explains it beautifully.
‘THINGS THAT ARE NOT CONTRAILS (OR CHEMTRAILS):
http://contrailscience.com/things-th...or-chemtrails/

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 13

"This photo is proof that chemicals are being sprayed from aircraft; clearly something is coming out of the wings of this aircraft! http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...642/1088680/L/ "



What an amazing and beautiful image. This is one of the amazing phenomenon that occur when humans fly around like birds. This is not only a contrail, but also an aerodynamic contrail which is formed by the sudden reduction and normalizing of pressure in the air as it moves over and around the wings of the aircraft. When the pressure of air is reduced (or any gas for that matter), its temperature also falls. The reduced temperature causes microscopic drops of water to condense, which then will freeze in the frigid temperature of the high altitude. The frozen drops get larger as more water condenses and freezes on them. The different sized ice crystals have different optical properties, which affect different wavelengths of light, which will cause the spectrum of light to become visible, and this explains the “rainbow” effect.

This is a more scientific explanation for this effect courtesy of Contrailscience.com:
http://contrailscience.com/files/Gie...ter_060625.pdf

------------------
------------------
Argument 14

"I have personally sat and watched aircraft turn their contrails on and off, this is evidence of government spraying devices being used in commercial aircraft."



What you are seeing is aerodynamic contrails (as explained above) forming in patchy air.



Scientific explanations:
http://contrailscience.com/files/AC%...%20physics.pdf
http://contrailscience.com/files/Aer...Properties.pdf
http://contrailscience.com/broken-contrails/

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 15

"During high chemtrail activity, hospital visits and sickness is reported to go up, this is clear proof that dangerous chemicals are present in aircraft contrails."



Airline activity only goes up or down depending on what time of day it is, and it is fairly consistent.
Lets take the worlds busiest airport as an example: http://flightaware.com/analysis/graphs/airport/KATL

What you are feeling is allergies, and general bad feeling.
This is because contrails will generally linger longer in higher humidity and dropping pressure, two things that commonly occur before a rain or thunderstorm.

In the days following documentation of lingering contrails, rain or general bad weather usually occurred.

------------------
------------------
Chemtrail Argument 16

"Airline pilots acknowledge the existence of chemtrails."



No they don’t.
Airline pilots deny, and can prove to the contrary because they happen to know more than the average conspiracy theorist who sits behind their computer and Dorito bags all day.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ha...nny-stuff.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Discussion


It is only common sense to know that aerial spraying from commercial airline altitude would be a highly inefficient and imprecise mode of delivering toxic chemicals to ground-based targets. For example, pesticides are often sprayed on crops from airplanes flying at around 30ft. Mosquito spraying is generally done from an altitude of 150 feet or less. Chemtrails are supposedly sprayed from an altitude of 30,000 feet or higher, where winds are known to be very strong and unpredictable, and would likely disperse them very unpredictably.

If the government was going to use chemicals to secretly control the population, it would be more effective to put them in our water and food supply, or if inhalation were necessary, to release chemicals from cars or buses.

Like all other conspiracy theories of this nature, the Chemtrail theory will eventually crash and burn (no pun), and go down in urban history as one of the largest and most elaborate internet hoaxes of all time.
There is simply no such thing as chemtrails in today’s world. It is amusing to watch people try and analyze "chemtrails" when they don't even have a clue about airplanes, weather, ATC or aviation in general.

Lets just assume for the sake of argument that the government does in fact mix viruses and toxic chemicals into jet fuel for the purpose of raining down on civilization.
Why then do we only see these ‘chemtrails’ at high altitude?
Why do planes not produce visible chemtrails on final for landing or on the ground taxiing, or during takeoff? I’ve never seen this and I lived under an airport approach path for 8 years, and near the same airport before that.

Why have passengers onboard not noticed the chemicals being sprayed out of the wings of the aircraft during flight? I’ve taken plane rides many times in my life and I’ve never seen these chemicals being sprayed out of the wings of any aircraft.

I’ve heard some people argue that there are viruses mixed in with the fuel for the purpose of testing the population. I can debunk this in 3 seconds.
The heat of the burning fuel would kill any viruses instantly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion


Some will argue that if I really believed chemtrails don’t exist, I would not take so much time trying to disprove them. In reality however, I simply hate to see so many people mislead into believing something as false as chemtrails.

We must stop and realize that the sky is full of amazing and bizarre phenomena, such as rainbows, cirrus clouds, lightning, tornadoes, hurricanes, hail, the northern lights etc.
But as history has shown us time, after time again, that without understanding the underlying mechanisms of natural things that happen here on earth, humans always assume that fearsome monsters are responsible.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Other references:

-----------------------




http://contrailscience.com/
http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/
http://hubpages.com/hub/To-Chemtrail...-You-Dont-Know
http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/contrail.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread378822/pg1
http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/Wind...course=azimuth
http://contrailscience.com/chemtrail-myths/







“Best Evidence“ – Discovery Channel
Part 1: Part 2: Part 3:

















Warm Regards
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:16 PM
WGSNewnan WGSNewnan is offline
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what really amazes me is regardless of how much factual info you provide it is ignored and then a fight over the conspiracy theory begins. the department of energy website tells you what they are doing and why. it discusses the budgets, the various organizations, and everything else you could possibly want to know.

SO I GUESS EVERYBODY CAN CONTINUE ARGUING THE SAME DEBATE OVER AND OVER AND OVER USING THE SAME OLD ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST IT. ITS NO WONDER OUR COUNTRY IS IN THE SHAPE IT IS IN. THE ELITE PRAY THAT YOU CONTINUE THIS BS. ITS WHAT EMPOWERS THEM. FOOLS ARGUING WITH FOOLS ABOUT NOTHING WHILE THEY CONTINUE TO ROB YOU BLIND.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:25 PM
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Who would win a fight between SSGNasty and Filthy_McNasty? We already have a consensus that Filthy_McNasty would beat Bignasty.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:41 PM
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you can spend days reading about all the people involved and the numerous studies being conducted by our government. here is a great place to start -

http://www.asp.bnl.gov/

and dont go read for 15 minutes and come back saying - "i dont see anything about chemtrails". read and read some more. only you can stop being ignorant. and stop watching the discovery channel for all your information. they call it entertainment for a reason. have you not seen Jurassic Park???? they arent real either.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:44 PM
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i wonder what they are up to -

The Department of Energy's Atmospheric Science Program has as its long-term goal developing comprehensive understanding of the atmospheric processes that control the transport, transformation, and fate of energy related trace chemicals and particulate matter. The current focus of the program is aerosol radiative forcing of climate: aerosol formation and evolution and aerosol properties that affect direct and indirect influences on climate and climate change.

sounds like a conspiracy to me - i wonder if they will make a documentary about it????????
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:09 PM
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Some people believe a big rabbit brings colorful eggs on Easter too.
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandad Prepper View Post
Golly, Doug! If we all did that (EMP, BOV, BOL, PM's, etc., etc., etc., .......), there wouldn't be much of a forum left. I check out all threads that seem interesting even though they may be the umpteenth one I've seen. You never know when you might find a new morsel of information in one.
I like the BOV threads. they're some of my favorites . I just dont believe the chemtrail conspiracy and never will. Every thread ends the same with the believers calling the non-believers morons, and fools, and saying we need to "wake up", blah blah blah.....

As soon as the name calling starts, your argument stops.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:01 PM
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Everyone knows what happens when they post a chemtrail thread.
This to me is good news.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:16 PM
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I saw this a few weeks ago but thought it was just a jet stream. Though I do remember thinking it was odd how low it was and how wide it looked. I never thought that possibly they could be dusting our skies. I live in Michigan so I am curious why they would need to dust clouds here. We have plenty of rainfall here.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleCreekPrepper View Post
I saw this a few weeks ago but thought it was just a jet stream. Though I do remember thinking it was odd how low it was and how wide it looked. I never thought that possibly they could be dusting our skies. I live in Michigan so I am curious why they would need to dust clouds here. We have plenty of rainfall here.
is there any major agriculture downwind from where you live?
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:18 PM
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Time to call Jesse Ventura and have him do a conspiracy theory show.
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