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Old 08-27-2010, 05:35 PM
LadyFenix LadyFenix is offline
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Do I think our pampered society has become weak ?????? Oh, boy. I am tempted to write "let me count the ways". LOL

Short answer is a resounding YES !!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by I Buried My Guns View Post
My Momma always said, with mock sternness when I whined, that "Suffering builds character".

She grew up poor, and in her mind my complaints about having the wrong brand of cookie, or having to drink generic soda instead of real Coke were laughable.

Growing up she suffered in a way I cannot comprehend. She used to tell me in the early 80s that our new car, a base model Mustang, cost more than the house she grew up in (about $10,000).

To her, having a full pantry was the penultimate goal, and a cause for rejoicing. I have that value to this day, and my wife still thinks it's weird!

I still miss my Mom.
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Have you ever driven down a back country road and noticed an abandoned weather-beaten little house (sometimes on stilts) with a metal roof and chimney?? This is what a lot of people lived in during the 1930's Depression years.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
You grow by having to perform and succeed while under hardship, not merely because you've been present for it. Tons of people fall off the deep end, and only get worse.
That's the key. (emphasis added to original)

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I guess I get the Cold Hearted Bastard award.
I'm sorry, but that is reserved for me.
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:12 PM
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""We're all put to the test... but it never comes in the form or at the point we would prefer, does it?"
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Old 08-27-2010, 08:46 PM
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I think ideally, none of us should have to face hardship. With hard work, proper management and continuing morals and family values, we could have built this country up right. But we didn't. We let it fall. As a society, we let our children and their children down. And now we all have to face hardship because of it.

But there's no such thing as the perfect human, so there's no way to create that perfect society either. As such, hardship is the great exercise in building us up. It's the great teacher. Showing us that we can persevere. That we can do more than we think we can.

And ultimately, in the end, it may be the great filter that eliminates the dregs of society so that those who can rebuild, can do so without having to support so much dead weight this time around.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:40 AM
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
I think ideally, none of us should have to face hardship. With hard work, proper management and continuing morals and family values, we could have built this country up right. But we didn't. We let it fall. As a society, we let our children and their children down. And now we all have to face hardship because of it.

But there's no such thing as the perfect human, so there's no way to create that perfect society either. As such, hardship is the great exercise in building us up. It's the great teacher. Showing us that we can persevere. That we can do more than we think we can.

And ultimately, in the end, it may be the great filter that eliminates the dregs of society so that those who can rebuild, can do so without having to support so much dead weight this time around.
So true.

Choices have consequences as well.

Have a coworker whom is going thru multilayered hardships at the moment. Thankfully, none of which entail health issues of the individual* nor of the children.

The last convo I had with this person, they stated they may “have to sell there home”. Truly unfortunate on the face of it, however, choices have consequences.

-This individual decided to open a pub with there partner.
-The involvement at said pub has put the individuals professional position at risk (poor performance, calling out, arriving late, leaving early).
-This individual had a parent move across country to help with the home & child care.
-The said parent and the partner didn’t get along, so the individual asked the parent to move out...parent was paying significant rent to the individual.
-individual purchased stock animal they couldn’t care for alone, against the partners wishes.
-Partner and individual split up, within weeks of parent moving out & buying stock animal.
-individual was likely intoxicated AT WORK, hearsay, however we do have systems in place to assess and remove said individuals on the spot. All it takes is a few “flags” to begin the immediate process.
-senior staff have all been made aware of that last bit, so now will be looking for any signs and will be taking appropriate action. Should have at that time, but were not comfortable nor claimed aware of how “simple” the process is.

Truly a sad case of self inflicted downward spiral, and lack of individual/family responsibility.

NB, this individual and I have had interesting political conversations in the past. The individual is a hard left D, actually advocating socialism. Yah, really. No joke.

*Not direct physical/medical health issue, psychological. Substance abuse, absolutely.
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Old 09-05-2019, 01:16 PM
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Having endured hardship and adversity...it's not a place I'd willingly go, yet it's a place I know all to well. Does it build character? I don't know, however it does give one insights they wouldn't have otherwise.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:40 AM
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Adversity toughens one up.
My grandfather often said, "When the going gets TOUGH, the TOUGH get going".

I intentionally put my children & grandchildren as they were growing up though varied adverse survival "boot camp" scenarios to toughen them up.

Doing so paid great dividends.
Proud old man here as they grew up able to hold their own in adverse circumstances.
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:03 PM
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I AM a parent.

I grew up on both sides of the coin.
My father had money
went broke
had money again,
went broke again
all the time never living anywhere more than a couple years in a row.
on a semi regular cycle so I had things provided that gave me advantage and yet within a year we could have to move back the the grandparents farm because we had nothing.
That yoyo existence caused some real issues with my sister and I. I basically stopped ever trying to make friends with anyone because they would be gone in a year or so.
At 17 my sister ran away from home and joined the nuns.
I made it until 19 then frustrated with life I dropped out of college just about 20 hours short of an engineering degree and found "something else to do" for the next few years.

SO,
When I got married I vowed that I was going to provide for my family so it was stable and secure. By then I had a good job in LE and the wife was an RN so we were pretty well set. She had also moved a few times growing up but not under the same circumstances.

We smoothed out the rough parts of life for our kids. Gave them a stable environment. They lived in the same house their entire lives with us. While they were growing up we heated with firewood so they had jobs dealing with it. THEY may not have had all the luxuries but they always had the necessities. They went to the same schools with the same friends. Made sure they could go to college. From grade school through college they were both honor students at the top of their class and Both are successful engineers working for fortune 500 companies. Except on the football field, neither one of them has ever had a physical confrontation in their lives. Never been shot at, never had to kill someone, never saw anyone die, except through old age or illness, never had to see any kind of violence that I lived with since age 19 until I retired.

The question is, Would them suffering hardship make them better prepared for life?
Maybe.
BUT...They are both fairly well grounded, they have to be, they are engineers. They grew up in a house where their parents had occupations where violence and/or death was ever present so they knew of the bad things life could hand out.
If the world is coming to an end there is no doubt they will be out of their comfort zones, but they will be smart enough to realize they should get home before the whole thing collapses around their ears.

Was I wrong for not running them through their own private boot camp? Their mother forbade me to tell them everything I had done in life and refused to let me teach them what I knew about HTH combat. I did teach them some simple stuff but nothing where they would cripple or kill someone.

I may have been remiss for not putting them into the mind set about the big bad world that I have, but their lives are easier for it and for now it works for them.

A parent should want "better" for their kids. That is what we did.

IF the zombies march, if they can't get home(here) they probably won't make it. Otherwise, I like their odds.
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Old 09-06-2019, 03:13 PM
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Hardship may toughen one up, yet it should serve to educate as well...if it doesn't educate then all it does is create very tough idiots...LOL
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:34 PM
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Just like the phenomenons where everyone thinks they are funny and intelligent, everyone thinks they are tough. I can't even count how many people I've seen freeze in critical situations. I, however, wouldnt consider myself a tough person just because I didnt freeze up.

I guess someone should define what toughness means? If we're defining it based soley on the notion of how much suffering one person can or is willing to endure, then I think we're in a crappy place as human beings on these boards.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:12 PM
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"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel."

-- Rashid bin Saeed Al Maktoum
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Old 09-08-2019, 06:42 AM
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There's a lot to unwrap here. First, hardship "can" help someone develop grit, perseverance, and strong character, but hardship can also be the product of poor judgement and bad decision making. We have a generation that manufacturers hardship so they can excuse their behavior and demand sympathy...most have zero concept of what is really hardship. Losing your phone or Internet privileges, being "triggered" by any number of social-justice threats; not getting one's way at work, in school, or in some extra curricular activity...we have a generation that must manufacture hardship so they can demand sympathy and feel good about themselves (my daughter is one of them).

I think many view hardship such as a victim of a major catastrophe, serious illness, family disruption, financial distress, etc., as events that can make or break individuals; there's some value to that, but I'm a proponent of avoiding the majority of those "hardships". Most of us here make preparation part of our daily lives, we strive to maintain our health and phsyical fitness, we work hard and attempt to make smart, informed decisions...all to avoid such serious hardships. Hardships are something you either plan and prepare to avoid or plan and prepare to endure.

Now failures can be valuable lessons in life, and one's I advocate for both personal drives for improvement, and developing one's emotional fortitude. Losing sucks, but never putting yourself in that position, always having a safety net, and never learning from mistakes will ultimately end in a messy implosion for those that never experience such hardship or failure when it does strike.

Adversity is not as severe, but can be manufactured to help deal with certain stressors. The military uses techniques to help individuals deal with discomfort or manufactured hardships and stressors. I like youth sports (if done right) as they can involve adversity with losing, injuries, hard-work and pushing oneself for constant improvements.

I just think those that suffer from some failures in life, but learn from those failures will be far more prepared to deal with greater stressors from life. My son is a perfect example. He's your typical 20-year old for the most part. Did okay in high school, played sports (definitely learned to "lose"), learned right from wrong and religious-based morality; pretty normal by most standards. He's pretty good at adapting to his surroundings with me being in the Army and moving frequently...but he's never dealt with "hardship".

He about died having tried to cross a swollen river in his Nissan Xterra a few years ago...self-inflicted hardship and failure that helped identified some critical lessons in life, but his most important lesson happened his freshman year in college. He won an ROTC scholarship and he lacked the ability to prioritize and work hard; he lost the scholarship his first year. He was embarrassed, shocked, and extremely disappointed in himself. He had to take summer classes the last two years, but my wife and I are proud that he struggled past it. He now has some stupid student loan debt to cover the semester he lost, but he won the scholarship back and was on the honor roles every semester since.

The key to failures and hardships are learning how to overcome them and/or avoid them in the future and avoiding suffering the same failures repeatedly . Those that find excuses and point blame at everyone/everything other than looking in the mirror of self-introspection will continue to see repeated failures and hardships. It helps to have some core values of ethics, morality, good work ethic, and someone you respect and trust for advice and/or encouragement.

It's important to note that many who overcome hardships and failures and develop that "grit" often have someone in their lives who encourages and supports them...that was a critical factor discovered by psychologist Angela Lee Duckworth discovered during research for her book "Grit: the power of passion and perseverance".

ROCK6
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:17 PM
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hardship absolutely shapes a person. it makes a person realize what they can do that they never thought they could. it pushes them to overcome or die. what survives is better prepared for anything that comes.

this is fundamentally why people train. to harden themselves, to mentally prepare themselves, to gain confidence through experience.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post
It's important to note that many who overcome hardships and failures and develop that "grit" often have someone in their lives who encourages and supports them...that was a critical factor discovered by psychologist Angela Lee Duckworth discovered during research for her book "Grit: the power of passion and perseverance".

ROCK6
Exactly.

I took great pains to patiently teach both prudent life & survival skills to my children grandchildren, great grand children. Which paid great dividends because those skills eventually became ingrained as second nature to them.

Which gives me a good feeling, as they can generally hold their own in most adverse circumstances.
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:48 PM
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In the end, physics will become the greatest teacher, and everyone will return to Third World status.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:19 PM
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I wasn’t aware that hardship could be avoided. Now, that doesn’t mean it should be sought out, it just naturally comes to us and we learn a lot about life in dealing with it in whatever form it comes. Going though basic training in the US Army was a hardship, but when it was done there was great satisfaction in knowing that you persevered and survived. While I was not assigned to a combat area myself, I would well imagine that those who went through combat suffered much greater hardship that I ever did.

My observation of those men and women who endured actual combat is that it strengthens some but destroys others. I asked a VA psychiatrist once why he though some folks deal better than others with the stresses and horrific scenes often experienced in combat. His response made sense to me. He indicated that those members of the armed forces who had thought about what they would witness in combat before hand seemed better equipped than those who didn’t think about it. It would seem that if the expectations of gruesome outcomes were visualized in advanced, that it lessened the blow when it did occur.

For such folks combat and its hardship enables them to become stronger people but for those who are shocked with scenes they never imagined, that they are made weaker people suffering PTSD. Now, of course, PTSD is a form of suffering itself and that too can be a vehicle for personal growth as well.

Everyone runs into a brick wall from time to time. Whether it’s a boss who is a tyrant, a life event like the death of a loved one, or a time of financial hardship or any combination of the above. The question when one faces such times is: “What is this situation able to teach me?” For those who truly find this question helpful, hardship sharpens them as people. For those who only find themselves saying “Woe is me!”, suffering will not prove beneficial.
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