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Old 10-31-2014, 05:07 PM
flotsam flotsam is offline
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Great thread, thanks! In some of my own reading, it was recommended that canned food should be boiled open - with no lid - for 10 or 20 min (not sure on the time). Have you come across that? I found it curious that open boiling was stated, when I thought it was just the temp that killed the toxin...
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Old 10-31-2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by flotsam View Post
Great thread, thanks! In some of my own reading, it was recommended that canned food should be boiled open - with no lid - for 10 or 20 min (not sure on the time). Have you come across that? I found it curious that open boiling was stated, when I thought it was just the temp that killed the toxin...
In the research I did I did not come across open pot boiling as a recommendation. The only advantage I can think of is that you can visually verify that is does reach a rolling boil. Do you remember where you saw the open boiling recommendation?
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Old 11-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by flotsam View Post
Great thread, thanks! In some of my own reading, it was recommended that canned food should be boiled open - with no lid - for 10 or 20 min (not sure on the time). Have you come across that? I found it curious that open boiling was stated, when I thought it was just the temp that killed the toxin...
That recommendation is a secondary safety measure for using canned foods. The toxin can be broken down by boiling. If there was some botulism toxin in the canned foods, the boiling would render it safe to consume.

Whereas the organism itself needs the higher temperatures of pressure cooking to kill it.
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Old 11-02-2014, 12:11 PM
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I'm mostly vegetarian but I do have a weakness for bacon so I canned up some bacon jam about a year and a half ago using a pressure canner. The author of the recipe recommends using it up in 6 months. Ooops! Now I'm kinda paranoid.

So, I opened up a jar, seal was still good, smelled ok but bacon is greasy. The bourbon in the jam is probably not enough to kill any spores! Anyway, I was going to boil the jar or heat it up in the oven and decided to use it in stir fry. Heated up the electric wok to 250 degrees and let it saute for a bit while constantly stirring to keep it from sticking. Added veggies and rice and here I am, not dead yet.

The jam is probably OK but heating it up makes me feel better.

As a side note, I didn't have any soy sauce on hand for my stir fry and threw in some b-b-q sauce and it was quite tasty.

What do you think about ketchup (commercial) that has turned dark? Pulled a bottle from the back of the pantry, a year past the "best" date it was reddish brown. I'll throw it out but curious as to why this occurred and if it would be safe in a SHTF scenario.
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by OKCorral View Post
I'm mostly vegetarian but I do have a weakness for bacon so I canned up some bacon jam about a year and a half ago using a pressure canner. The author of the recipe recommends using it up in 6 months. Ooops! Now I'm kinda paranoid.

So, I opened up a jar, seal was still good, smelled ok but bacon is greasy. The bourbon in the jam is probably not enough to kill any spores! Anyway, I was going to boil the jar or heat it up in the oven and decided to use it in stir fry. Heated up the electric wok to 250 degrees and let it saute for a bit while constantly stirring to keep it from sticking. Added veggies and rice and here I am, not dead yet.

The jam is probably OK but heating it up makes me feel better.

As a side note, I didn't have any soy sauce on hand for my stir fry and threw in some b-b-q sauce and it was quite tasty.

What do you think about ketchup (commercial) that has turned dark? Pulled a bottle from the back of the pantry, a year past the "best" date it was reddish brown. I'll throw it out but curious as to why this occurred and if it would be safe in a SHTF scenario.
The tomatoes oxidized. No botulism in it. But the oxidation comes with free radicals.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:19 AM
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Is there some kind of simple, inexpensive test to use to check for botulism?
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:18 AM
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Is there some kind of simple, inexpensive test to use to check for botulism?
There is not a home test available for screening for botulism. It would require each and every container of food be tested which would not be practical. There has been a flourescent type test developed that makes botulism easier to detect in a commercial environment where large scale food preparation is occurring but it is not a practical home application.

The safe handling of food as described early in this thread is the main defense we have against botulism. Botulism occurs very rarely and in the last 30 years or so, each occurrence has been easily pinpointed to unsafe food handling procedures causing contamination.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:45 PM
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In the research I did I did not come across open pot boiling as a recommendation. The only advantage I can think of is that you can visually verify that is does reach a rolling boil. Do you remember where you saw the open boiling recommendation?
Sorry, been gone a while. I can't find the open boiling recommendation, I wish I had saved it. CSU recommends 10 min of boiling plus 1 min per 1000 ft of elevation. Perhaps it is indeed to observe proper boiling.
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Old 01-27-2015, 06:56 PM
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Mel I don't know if your thread was specifically for canning,. but would you consider adding to it the dangers of Botulism in meats and addition of sodium nitrite (cure) as a way to combat this.
Thx
333
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:02 PM
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Mel I don't know if your thread was specifically for canning,. but would you consider adding to it the dangers of Botulism in meats and addition of sodium nitrite (cure) as a way to combat this.
Thx
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I will try to get it written up in the next couple of days. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 03-27-2015, 09:16 AM
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Default Properly canned?

This seems to be the thread to ask this question.

Last night we ran out of salsa so my husband got another jar from the cupboard and pulled the lid off with his fingers!

This salsa was properly water bathed in the fall of 2013.

My question is, should it be possible for a man of average strength to pull the lid off of a properly sealed jar? The seals popped as if a can opener had been used, and I couldn't budge the lids with my fingers, but I'm rather afraid to use the pickled products from that year.

I appreciate any input...Thanks!
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Old 03-27-2015, 11:24 PM
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Shrug. I've seen men do it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rubyyarn View Post
This seems to be the thread to ask this question.

Last night we ran out of salsa so my husband got another jar from the cupboard and pulled the lid off with his fingers!

This salsa was properly water bathed in the fall of 2013.

My question is, should it be possible for a man of average strength to pull the lid off of a properly sealed jar? The seals popped as if a can opener had been used, and I couldn't budge the lids with my fingers, but I'm rather afraid to use the pickled products from that year.

I appreciate any input...Thanks!
I have rather strong hands for a woman (according to the surgeon that was trying to fix one of them a few years ago) and if I seat my fingers just right around the flat on a jar of home canning I can often remove it that way. It is all about the grip and strength.

It should still 'fight' you, there should be the pop of the vacuum release when it opens, but it is possible a man of average strength could pull the lid off.
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Old 03-28-2015, 11:01 AM
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Whew!

I appreciate everyone helping me out I did get rid of the salsa just in case. I am relieved, though, to know that it is possible to remove a canning jar lid with one's bare hands.

Have you ever read the procedure for getting rid of food suspected of botulism? It didn't mention calling a hazmat team, but probably should have
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:21 PM
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Thank you. This was a vary informative post, that will help out many people. Peace.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:33 AM
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thanks for sharing
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamgee View Post
If, in a survival situation where a pressure canner was not available, could one safely water bath can low-acid foods, as long as they boil it for ten minutes upon opening, thereby killing the toxin?
You could take the risk or you could convert the low acid foods into something less risky. Cabbage, diakons, cucumbers can all be fermented into their more stable forms - sauerkraut, pickles... Tomatoes, green beans, other vegetables can all be lacto-fermented to be HWB canning friendly or just putting your covered crock in the basement would be fine.

Fruit juices can be preserved in a similar way. Vinegar can also be produced from scraps like fruit peels, cores, & pumice...
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubyyarn View Post
Whew!

I appreciate everyone helping me out I did get rid of the salsa just in case. I am relieved, though, to know that it is possible to remove a canning jar lid with one's bare hands.

Have you ever read the procedure for getting rid of food suspected of botulism? It didn't mention calling a hazmat team, but probably should have
READ : http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/general/ide...nned_food.html

note- the 1st 3 paragraphs relate to high acid foods (only foods properly made for BWB). DON'T smell low acid foods that are suspect !
i don't understand why they say to put suspect jars in a dry pot. i'd think there would be more chance of splashing when filled with water. i think i would partly fill a pot with water and then gently lay the jar in. this would be outside on the grill.
one reason approved recipes are changed- bacteria mutate. maybe to become more resistant to heat ? i'm not positive, but i think the standard recipes are retested over time. there just isn't the funding to test all grandma's recipes.....
read further....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostr...#North_America
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:26 PM
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Good Info here, Thanks, I learned a LOT.
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