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Old 03-24-2020, 03:11 PM
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It’s things like this which remind me again how thankful I am for Jesus.

He brought Love and Compassion as the most important benchmarks for us. I’ll completely agree that servile work on the Lord’s Day should not happen. Auto parts store, etc. (I do miss the Blue Laws!) But no one will convince me that Jesus would expect an EMT to not provide his/her knowledge and abilities to save a life because of the day.

Comparing the OT and it’s often draconian rules with the Salvation and Love brought by Jesus to a broken world is simply not possible.

Agreed. Christ's mercy has given the world hope and joy and forgiveness. Some people simply can't rest on a particular day. They can still "observe" the 7th day with prayers and remembrance then rest their bodies on the next available day off.


Galatians 5:14, "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:21 PM
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As most Christians worship on Sunday rather than the Sabbath it is kind of a mute point really...

The biblical and Judaic Sabbath is the last day of the week from sundown Friday night until sundown Saturday night. Modern Christians worship on the first day of the week Sunday rather than observe the Sabbath. With the exception of the Seventh Day Adventists and the Jehova's witnesses anyways.

My last foster parents were Seventh Day Adventists and taught that modern Christians would not be saved because they had been deceived by Satan and were disobeying Gods commandments by honoring the Pagan "day of festivals" instead of holding true to the biblical Sabbath...

I think all of the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are a crock myself, but I thought I might point out that if you are going to get that nit picky about observing the Sabbath you might do some study as to "when" the Sabbath actually is...

P.S...
For the sake of accuracy I should add the caveat that while the US and Canada define Sunday as the first day of the week these days many countries worldwide have adopted Sunday as the "last" day of the week...
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:26 PM
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As most Christians worship on Sunday rather than the Sabbath it is kind of a mute point really...
Moot point? How so? YHWH says the 7th day, men tell Him no, we chose the sun-day instead.

Have fun with that...it's called rebellion.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:33 PM
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Moot point? How so? YHWH says the 7th day, men tell Him no, we chose the sun-day instead.

Have fun with that...it's called rebellion.
My point was that they are already failing Gods commandment according to the bible.. It is a "moot" point to argue whether it is wrong to "work" on Sunday or not as the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday...

Why I advised to look into "when" the Sabbath actually is... Sorry I put "mute" rather than "moot" that must have really hurt the eyes...
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:43 PM
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The Old Testament showed God's Holiness and man's inability to be Holy. The New Testament shows God's mercy and grace, thus forgiveness of sin. Jesus was Holy as He said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and "I and the Father are One". If we put our faith in Jesus, God forgives us, as Jesus in His Human form, paid the price for sin, once and for all. God said in the Old Testament "by the seed of the woman I will redeem mankind". We are to rest one day a week and worship God, but we are not bound by the law, we are bound by Grace through Faith.

In the Old Testament they couldn't eat certain foods, yet God showed Peter in a vision, he could eat anything as long as he received it with thanksgiving. A lot of the law was to protect them from disease and parasites as well as to honor God.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:48 PM
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In the Old Testament they couldn't eat certain foods, yet God showed Peter in a vision, he could eat anything
He most certainly did not. The vision had nothing to do with food whatsoever. Wuhan China is a perfect example of what not to eat!
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:49 PM
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My point was that they are already failing Gods commandment according to the bible.. It is a "moot" point to argue whether it is wrong to "work" on Sunday or not as the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday...
Indeed, I agree. Sorry I misunderstood.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:41 PM
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The question then becomes if you would want to already to be found in lock step with what is coming...

Isa 2:2* And it shall be in the latter days that the mountain of the House of יהוה is established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills. And all nations shall flow to it.*

Isa 2:3* And many peoples shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of יהוה, to the House of the Elohim of Ya‛aqoḇ, and let Him teach us His ways, and let us walk in His paths, for out of Tsiyon comes forth the Torah, and the Word of יהוה from Yerushalayim.”*

Isa 2:4* And He shall judge between the nations, and shall reprove many peoples. And they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither teach battle any more.*

1Co 11:31* For if we were to examine ourselves, we would not be judged.*

I have no doubt that in God's Kingdom there will be a single set of rules for all to follow. We'll be living under Christ's perfect system and there will no room for man-made doctrines.

But in the interim, there are millions of people who (due to circumstances beyond their control) are obligated to work on the Sabbath. We don't currently live in a Theocracy so I'm not sure Christ is displeased with cops or doctors or emergency crews who must work on the day of rest.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:44 PM
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The Old Testament showed God's Holiness and man's inability to be Holy. The New Testament shows God's mercy and grace, thus forgiveness of sin. Jesus was Holy as He said, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father" and "I and the Father are One". If we put our faith in Jesus, God forgives us, as Jesus in His Human form, paid the price for sin, once and for all. God said in the Old Testament "by the seed of the woman I will redeem mankind". We are to rest one day a week and worship God, but we are not bound by the law, we are bound by Grace through Faith.

In the Old Testament they couldn't eat certain foods, yet God showed Peter in a vision, he could eat anything as long as he received it with thanksgiving. A lot of the law was to protect them from disease and parasites as well as to honor God.

To be fair ... Peter's vision really didn't have anything to do with food. It had to do with opening the door of salvation to folks who had been considered "unclean" by the Jews. The Bible refers to these "unclean" people as "the Gentiles" or, in some cases, barbarians.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:45 PM
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My point was that they are already failing Gods commandment according to the bible.. It is a "moot" point to argue whether it is wrong to "work" on Sunday or not as the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday...

Why I advised to look into "when" the Sabbath actually is... Sorry I put "mute" rather than "moot" that must have really hurt the eyes...

I used to observe the Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
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Old 03-24-2020, 04:55 PM
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I used to observe the Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
I am doing that now, I just thought if God liked it who am I to argue?
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Old 03-24-2020, 05:03 PM
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I am doing that now, I just thought if God liked it who am I to argue?

The point of the thread, though, is what if you had to work as a cop or doctor? Would you choose the rest over saving a life? If you had to work do you think God would forgive you? And, if you believe strongly in the law would you be willing to cast a stone at someone who you saw breaking the Sabbath? If not ... why not?
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Old 03-24-2020, 05:13 PM
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The point of the thread, though, is what if you had to work as a cop or doctor? Would you choose the rest over saving a life? If you had to work do you think God would forgive you? And, if you believe strongly in the law would you be willing to cast a stone at someone who you saw breaking the Sabbath? If not ... why not?
I have a Sabbath keeping lab tech friend who works at the hospital. When he MUST work on Sabbath, he donates his earnings to charity. I admire that devotion.

As I mentioned before, we cannot stone anyone. When His coming Theocracy is restored for the final time, there will be NO MORE Sabbath deniers. All that rebellion will be shut down for good.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:17 PM
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The original Sabbath was God’s way forcing a day of rest, and revolved around NOT doing things.

The Day of worship for Christians is the Day of the Resurrection of Jesus, our Lord. Sunday. And it revolves around doing things. Attending Church. Prayer. Family gatherings. Celebrating the Love and Salvation that Christ gave to us.

I’m sticking with Jesus.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:22 PM
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The original Sabbath was God’s way forcing a day of rest, and revolved around NOT doing things.

The Day of worship for Christians is the Day of the Resurrection of Jesus, our Lord. Sunday. And it revolves around doing things. Attending Church. Prayer. Family gatherings. Celebrating the Love and Salvation that Christ gave to us.

I’m sticking with Jesus.
No, you are sticking with tradition of your church with absolutely no authorization to do so from Scripture. Sabbath was from Creation and will be into eternity. Not the sun-day.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:17 PM
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No, you are sticking with tradition of your church with absolutely no authorization to do so from Scripture. Sabbath was from Creation and will be into eternity. Not the sun-day.
Why yes I am. The Church that Jesus founded, proven by His Resurrection, and sealed in the Upper Room. The Church that would not exist without those things. The actual reason that we now have a chance at Salvation, something that did not exist through the OT.

What’s more interesting to me is that you DO NOT wish to honor the resurrection of the Christ. Of course if that’s the case, never mind.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:45 PM
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Why yes I am. The Church that Jesus founded, proven by His Resurrection, and sealed in the Upper Room. The Church that would not exist without those things. The actual reason that we now have a chance at Salvation, something that did not exist through the OT.

What’s more interesting to me is that you DO NOT wish to honor the resurrection of the Christ. Of course if that’s the case, never mind.
Actually what you are referring to (upper room) happened during a FEAST day of YHWH...which all the apostles (and of course Messiah) kept...the day of Pentecost. No 'church' was 'born' that day at all. It was simply a fulfillment of the course already set.

Salvation is ALL OVER the the OT...Exo 15:2* The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.*I don't know how you missed all that.

As for His resurrection, that too is a Feast of YHWH: 1Co 15:20* But now Messiah has been raised from the dead, and has become the first-fruit of those having fallen asleep.

Of course the basis for this is found here: Lev 23:10* “Speak to the children of Yisra’ěl, and you shall say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I give you, and shall reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest to the priest.*

These are all SCRIPTURAL events that carry all through the Word. All you have is tradition with NO Scriptural precedence whatsoever.
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Old 03-25-2020, 12:58 AM
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Actually what you are referring to (upper room) happened during a FEAST day of YHWH...which all the apostles (and of course Messiah) kept...the day of Pentecost. No 'church' was 'born' that day at all. It was simply a fulfillment of the course already set.
Of course it was no accident that God chose the Day of Shavuot, the day on which Moses brought down the Law from Mt. Sinai, as the day on which the Holy Spirit would descend with all the knowledge necessary to proclaim the Good News of Jesus and the New Covenant to the whole world.

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Salvation is ALL OVER the the OT...Exo 15:2* The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him.*I don't know how you missed all that.
Nope, didn’t miss the fact that Salvation to an OT Jew was deliverance from harm on earth. The Salvation that Jesus bought for the whole world was access to Heaven. Same word. Whole different meaning.

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As for His resurrection, that too is a Feast of YHWH: 1Co 15:20* But now Messiah has been raised from the dead, and has become the first-fruit of those having fallen asleep.
Of course the basis for this is found here: Lev 23:10* “Speak to the children of Yisra’ěl, and you shall say to them, ‘When you come into the land which I give you, and shall reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first-fruits of your harvest to the priest.*
I see.
So God directing the children of Israel to bring the first fruit offerings from their subsequent harvest from the land given to them by God, to the priest, is an equivalent to Paul explaining that Jesus has by His own sacrifice opened the doors of Heaven to those already dead.
Another example of Paul using words and concepts that the Corinthians understood to explain a completely foreign premise.

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These are all SCRIPTURAL events that carry all through the Word. All you have is tradition with NO Scriptural precedence whatsoever.
Just keep telling yourself that. Here’s how important Paul thought it was:

Colossians 2:17–19: “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”

And isn’t it interesting that Jesus seemed to do most of His miracles on the Sabbath? Took pains to poke the scribes and Pharisees for their imposing the minutiae of the Sabbath? Said that the Sabbath was made not for God, but for man? Declared that He was Lord of the Sabbath?

Another fact...throughout the gospels, Jesus restates the Decalogue in different verses, all except one. He never mentioned “Keep Holy the Sabbath.”

And yes, He was a Jew and under the old covenant would have observed all the laws.

However, after he enunciated a new covenant at the Last Supper, his emphasis seems to be on Sundays. Sunday was the day he was found to have been resurrected, and his first two appearance to the twelve disciples were on the following two Sundays (Jn. 20:19, 20:26). Again, five weeks later—on Sunday—the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles.

Sure it’s Tradition to observe Sunday as the day of worship. Pretty much started around 60 AD or so. Officially locked in a few decades later.

Yes, Jesus caused many changes, and I thank God every day for them.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:17 AM
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Here’s how important Paul thought it was:

Colossians 2:17–19: “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”
I'll break your post down piecemeal. This needs to get examined first as it's a common problem with folks who remove themselves from the context and get the opposite of the intended meaning.

Colossians 2 in CONTEXT:

A quick look at using Col 2:16 as a ‘proof’ text against keeping Sabbath, feast days, or being able to now eat rats or pigs, etc. It’s time to put that one out to pasture. Usually, folks don’t even try that verse anymore after seeing it says opposite of what they think. Many have to confront this issue…people pulling one verse completely out of its context and say “ah-ha! there it is! we do not have to obey!” Oddly, that verse IN CONTEXT is their ruin! Let’s have a careful, objective look at these words IN CONTEXT…

Col 2:4 And this I say, lest “ANY MAN” should “beguile you with enticing words.”

Col 2:8 Beware lest “ANY MAN” “spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men”, after the “rudiments of the world”, and “not after Messiah”.

Col 2:18 Let “NO MAN” “beguile you” of “your reward” in a voluntary humility and “worshipping of angels”, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, “vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind”,

Col 2:22 … after the “commandments and DOCTRINES OF MEN?”

Col 2:16-17 Let “NO MAN” therefore “judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths… – which are a shadow of what is to come – but the Body of the Messiah”.

Let’s identify this ‘MAN’ who is NOT to judge us…a beguiler, a spoiler through philosophy, vainly deceitful, a man after the TRADITIONS OF MEN, puffed up in the FLESH, not after Messiah, rudiments of the world, AFTER THE COMMANMENTS AND DOCTRINES OF MEN! Hmmmm…chew on that.

My gosh, how clear can it be? This ‘man’ IS NOT part of the body of Messiah, but an outsider still in paganism, who was judging the body of believers for KEEPING those things! To continue to post to the contrary proves you do not want context, proves you do not want truth, and proves you have an agenda against obeying. His Sabbath, His feast days, His new moons, and eating clean food are His Word; NOT traditions of men. They were a GIVEN in those days, and are still alive and well for anyone who desire covenant with YHUH. Now, do you side with YHUH, or do you side with this ‘MAN’, this outsider, being spoken of? Who do you identify with? It’s time to choose! If you are still bent on disobeying, then you will have to find another verse to make you feel better about your sin.

That one is out to pasture.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:43 AM
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Nope, didn’t miss the fact that Salvation to an OT Jew was deliverance from harm on earth. The Salvation that Jesus bought for the whole world was access to Heaven. Same word. Whole different meaning.
Exo 15:2* The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation

H3444
יְשׁוּעָה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: - deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.

Starting to get the picture now?
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