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Old 03-30-2020, 04:05 PM
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Maybe it will reduce enough social contact to make a difference, but your beach party is ok under our exec order! I could drive a Mac truck through the holes. It seems that the only way to violate the order is to intentionally tell off the cop that questions you. If you don't want to stay home, just pick exemption before you leave, such that you can recite it if challenged..

You can go visit someone to "check on them". Get or deliver necessities which seem to include almost everything but flowers. I just spoke to someone who prints junk mail - it's part of the mail system - therefore exempt!

https://www.leg.state.mn.us/archive/...ders/20-20.pdf

Outdoor activities. Individuals may engage in outdoor activities (e.g.,walking, hiking, running, biking, driving for pleasure, hunting, or fishing),and may go to available public parks and other public recreation lands,consistent with remaining at least six feet apart from individuals from other households...
Galveston just closed their beaches, so best to check first if you plan to go to a public place.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:11 PM
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It can mean something. It can be a fluke. If it holds on over a longer period, it means measures from 2 weeks ago are having an effect. I believe the same for Italy at the moment. 2-3 weeks after the lockdown and quarantine measures cases are holding steady at 5000-6000 / day. Still a lot, but much more manageable. Of course most of Italy's death came through an overwhelmed healthcare, so the death numbers will keep going up or staying steady for a while more.

Basically, we'll know in a couple of days. And then it means growth is staying the same. That means we need to keep current conditions for another 2-3 weeks at least. Then we can see about opening up any measures taken slowly, and monitor the effect the opening up has.
I'm watching for the same things you are, but keep in mind that with lack of a control for comparison there's no way to truly know the effects of any action or variable with certainty. We have been forced into the realm of acting on our best guesses.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
I'm watching for the same things you are, but keep in mind that with lack of a control for comparison there's no way to truly know the effects of any action or variable with certainty. We have been forced into the realm of acting on our best guesses.
That's why timeframes and going slowly is important i think.

If you notice it stays steady at the same number of new cases, it means measures you're taking at that moment are limiting the spread to just 1 infection per person. Releasing measures too fast could quickly make it skyrocket again, so measures need to be built off very slowly (once there's a certainty it's steady, and the hospitals can actually cope with existing and new patients), to see the effects, and to adjust our actions again if need be. I do mean VERY slowly. 1 measure off, and spend 2-3 weeks waiting. If we can get enough testing done, it should be possible to actually quarantine new cases fast, and cared for by nurses and doctors who by then hopefully have some frigging PPE.

Think that's the way to fight this in the end. Though i do still expect a surge to be coming in about 2 weeks at least, across the US :/
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
That's why timeframes and going slowly is important i think.

If you notice it stays steady at the same number of new cases, it means measures you're taking at that moment are limiting the spread to just 1 infection per person. Releasing measures too fast could quickly make it skyrocket again, so measures need to be built off very slowly (once there's a certainty it's steady, and the hospitals can actually cope with existing and new patients), to see the effects, and to adjust our actions again if need be. I do mean VERY slowly. 1 measure off, and spend 2-3 weeks waiting. If we can get enough testing done, it should be possible to actually quarantine new cases fast, and cared for by nurses and doctors who by then hopefully have some frigging PPE.

Think that's the way to fight this in the end. Though i do still expect a surge to be coming in about 2 weeks at least, across the US :/
It all started with a handful of infected people. Even if it gets down to "acceptable" levels and the measures are relaxed, all it would take is for the remaining infected to start the whole thing over again.

I think "social distancing" is the new normal. I think EVERYBODY will be wearing masks as they come available long after this is supposedly over.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:01 PM
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Virginia shelter in place order for two and a half MONTHS. June 10th.

TWO AND A HALF MONTHS.

Gentle reminder that it was only a little over a week ago that the first state (California) locked down.

https://www.newsweek.com/virginia-go...ndemic-1495126
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
It all started with a handful of infected people. Even if it gets down to "acceptable" levels and the measures are relaxed, all it would take is for the remaining infected to start the whole thing over again.

I think "social distancing" is the new normal. I think EVERYBODY will be wearing masks as they come available long after this is supposedly over.
When hospitals are no longer in danger of being overwhelmed because there are effective therapies readily available and a good chunk of the population which survives infection has resistance from antibodies things will return to a more "normal" state. Some will remain shell shocked by this. Certainly most of us will be changed in some regard, but I don't see myself running around in a mask forever. Although this makes me wonder if states with "mask laws" will be repealing them.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Seems like a 50/50 shot based on the name so, why not send it to Holland?!?!?!


Holland America cruise ship heading toward US waters with nearly 200 sick onboard

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/holla...toward-florida

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.
What flag are they sailing under?
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
That's why timeframes and going slowly is important i think.

If you notice it stays steady at the same number of new cases, it means measures you're taking at that moment are limiting the spread to just 1 infection per person. Releasing measures too fast could quickly make it skyrocket again, so measures need to be built off very slowly (once there's a certainty it's steady, and the hospitals can actually cope with existing and new patients), to see the effects, and to adjust our actions again if need be. I do mean VERY slowly. 1 measure off, and spend 2-3 weeks waiting. If we can get enough testing done, it should be possible to actually quarantine new cases fast, and cared for by nurses and doctors who by then hopefully have some frigging PPE.

Think that's the way to fight this in the end. Though i do still expect a surge to be coming in about 2 weeks at least, across the US :/
I read the UK's plan to take it in waves. Not sure they're actually doing that. Not sure I agree with it. Not sure I don't. It's good to see people exploring different options. What has made humans so unique and so successful is critical thinking. Creative thinking. One reason it's good we don't all always agree.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
When hospitals are no longer in danger of being overwhelmed because there are effective therapies readily available and a good chunk of the population which survives infection has resistance from antibodies things will return to a more "normal" state. Some will remain shell shocked by this. Certainly most of us will be changed in some regard, but I don't see myself running around in a mask forever. Although this makes me wonder if states with "mask laws" will be repealing them.
I'd be glad if this gets sick people to actually wear a mask when they're going outside. Don't see that happening though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
I read the UK's plan to take it in waves. Not sure they're actually doing that. Not sure I agree with it. Not sure I don't. It's good to see people exploring different options. What has made humans so unique and so successful is critical thinking. Creative thinking. One reason it's good we don't all always agree.
The UK planned to do that. Then they noticed they where getting more sick than they thought, and that projections where turning very south, especially regarding their hospitals being able to cope. So now they're basically the same as most of us in Europe i think.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Seems like a 50/50 shot based on the name so, why not send it to Holland?!?!?!


Holland America cruise ship heading toward US waters with nearly 200 sick onboard

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/holla...toward-florida

Explore the Fox News apps that are right for you at http://www.foxnews.com/apps-products/index.html.
Actually, they now have 2 sick ships headed toward Florida.
They did a passenger and crew exchange at sea, so now both ships are infected. (They transferred the supposedly healthy passengers from the Zaandam to the Rotterdam. But I assume a bunch of them have the virus and just haven't presented with symptoms yet. It sounds like their plan was to just go ahead and disembark the Rotterdam in Florida without even a quarantine. Brilliant.



"Holland America had previously deployed another of its ships, the Rotterdam, to rendezvous with the Zaandam to provide medical supplies and relief for the Zaandam crew. Earlier on Sunday, the Zaandam also transferred healthy guests to the Rotterdam to “balance the workload between the two ships,” and now both are traveling together toward Florida."

They were scheduled to arrive today.
https://time.com/5810579/cruise-ship...virus-florida/

"More than 1,800 people are on board the vessel (Zaandam), including 1,243 guests and 586 crew members."

Port Everglades is the scheduled port.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...till-in-limbo/

"Florida City Commissioner Ben Sorensen has concerns. "I do not see us having the capacity to treat and manage this significant patient population. "

“Why would they bring this to one of the hottest of hot spots. The port actually sits in Fort Lauderdale and Hollywood on both parts of that area. You have people dying in assisted living facilities in both of those cities,” said Broward County Commissioner Michael Udine who has been against the ship docking here since the idea was floated.

Udine is wondering why the ship cannnot go to a Navy-type base farther up the coast or why other ways could not be explored so that the passengers don’t have to be taken off the ship and treated in local hospitals. “Is there a way we can treat them on the ship with another ship provided by the cruise line company?” Udine said there is a lack of supplies already in Broward County, where there are more than 800 confirmed cases. “Lack of supplies, limited testing ability and these are things that add to..."

There are also 2 other infected ships trying to dock in Miami. (from the first linked article above)
"Two Costa Cruises ships, with only crew members on board, are trying to dock at Port Miami on Thursday after at least 30 individuals were reported as having flu-like symptoms, a company spokesperson said. Roger Frizzell, a spokesperson for Carnival Corporation, which owns Costa Cruises, told TIME in an emailed statement on Thursday afternoon that “at this point,” the Magica and the Favolosa do not have official clearance to enter from the port of Miami” but they are “attempting to return to port.”"
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:30 PM
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My aunt is being very reckless. I don't want her anywhere near my house. She was gossiping with her next door neighbor, in the driveway, who is an ICU nurse for intubated Corona patients... I said "most of them die, be careful"

"Oh, I don't know that, I'm fine!"

THIS after she had a big family reunion after one of her sons had an exposure.

RECKLESS. I am not letting her anywhere near my house.

If she doesn't care about herself, her husband, her adult sons and their wives, she has several grandchildren two of whom are infants. You would think she would be more careful.

The good news, I know this before I saw her.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:34 PM
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"In a statement from the US Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), the agency said it will allow for the drugs to be "donated to the Strategic National Stockpile to be distributed and prescribed by doctors to hospitalized teen and adult patients with COVID-19"
Isn't the point at which the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin combo is effective is at the early onset of the disease, before the disease has progressed enough to require hospitalization?

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Life Tabernacle Church in Central LA just outside of Baton Rouge. Still holding services with up to 500 congregants and will continue to.
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From what I saw last week, the Orthodox Jewish community in NYC is/was disregarding the social distancing rules. Many infected.
And who is monitoring the mosques, I'd like to know? Islam's "holy prophet" Muhammad said there are no contagious diseases (Sahih Muslim 39:140, 39:144, 39:146-7; 39:153-4, 39:157). He also said that it's fine to drink water from a well that has dead animals, menstrual cloths, and human excrement in it (Sunan Abi Dawud 67); camel urine is medicinal (Sahih Bukhari 7:71:590); and water with houseflies in it cures diseases (Sahih Bukhari 54:537). So again: who is monitoring Muslim gatherings?
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:42 PM
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When hospitals are no longer in danger of being overwhelmed because there are effective therapies readily available and a good chunk of the population which survives infection has resistance from antibodies things will return to a more "normal" state. Some will remain shell shocked by this. Certainly most of us will be changed in some regard, but I don't see myself running around in a mask forever. Although this makes me wonder if states with "mask laws" will be repealing them.
When the new normal sets in and when they develop a vaccine, I'll guarantee that all the kids will be made to get it. I remember the polio vaccine we all got in school.

Quote:
During the early 1950s, polio rates in the U.S. were above 25,000 annually; in 1952 and 1953, the U.S. experienced an outbreak of 58,000 and 35,000 polio cases, respectively, up from a typical number of some 20,000 a year, with deaths in those years numbering 3,200 and 1,400.

Soon after Salk's vaccine was licensed in 1955, children's vaccination campaigns were launched. In the U.S, following a mass immunization campaign promoted by the March of Dimes, the annual number of polio cases fell from 35,000 in 1953 to 5,600 by 1957. By 1961 only 161 cases were recorded in the United States. - wikipedia
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GrayFoal2 View Post
Isn't the point at which the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin combo is effective is at the early onset of the disease, before the disease has progressed enough to require hospitalization?

There are 2 main ways the drug works to combat the virus.
The first method keeps the virus spikes from attaching to healthy cells, the second sabotages the replication process.

I think the latter mechanism would be helpful at any stage of the infection.

The first mechanism might not be so helpful once the person is well and truly infected.

I guess they will find out with all of the trials and now general widespread prescribing. If the death toll drops like a rock, that would be a pretty good indicator.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:45 PM
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When the new normal sets in and when they develop a vaccine, I'll guarantee that all the kids will be made to get it. I remember the polio vaccine we all got in school.

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Old 03-30-2020, 06:09 PM
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And who is monitoring the mosques, I'd like to know? Islam's "holy prophet" Muhammad said there are no contagious diseases (Sahih Muslim 39:140, 39:144, 39:146-7; 39:153-4, 39:157). He also said that it's fine to drink water from a well that has dead animals, menstrual cloths, and human excrement in it (Sunan Abi Dawud 67); camel urine is medicinal (Sahih Bukhari 7:71:590); and water with houseflies in it cures diseases (Sahih Bukhari 54:537). So again: who is monitoring Muslim gatherings?
Answer: The muslims.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:11 PM
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The Cutter Incident?
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:12 PM
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<snip> image of book
I got the shot. My younger siblings got the sugar cube. They did it at school.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:15 PM
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The sticky wicket with the Kung Flu, is will it mutate each year like the flu virus does? Last year's flu vaccine was only about 40% effective.

===

I think the world is in for some drastic changes in the new normal.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:23 PM
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Ironically, the COVID panic is causing severe cash flow problems in some hospitals, as elective procedures are cancelled or postponed. The "killer virus" isn't filling the beds like it's supposed to.

https://www.newsbreak.com/west-virgi...ction-measures
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