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Old 03-29-2020, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MRBEALE View Post
Good thing we are telling the enemy exactly what we are doing....


Assuming this is all factual and not psyops.
There is no way that you can hide this kind of restructuring.
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Old 03-29-2020, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grotius View Post
Actually, what's made infantry success possible most recently has been the Air/Ground team.

I don't deny that pre-planned and on-call artillery is a basic part of all infantry operations, but being able to call aircraft to deliver ordnance has been critical as well.

And in terms of losing the heavy lift squadrons, how the hell does he plan to move units in combat? I was an embarkation officer for my Infantry Bn, and once Grunts are off the ship we depended on helos to relocate units around for effective operations. Seems you'd want to retain the heavy lift squadrons just in case things didn't work out as planned.

The problem with plans like these are that success depends on the enemy doing what you expect them to do.

I agree with JustMe11 -- it sounds like these plans are being made by those in the Army and Navy who genuinely resent the Marine Corps and want to see the USMC relegated to relatively insignificant roles.
Yes, almost any plan will look good if we are invading Gilligan's island assuming Gilligan has no credible air force or SAM network or has massive artillery.

But going up against a near peer enemy, with serious SAM coverage, massive artillery coverage of the battle space and an airforce that will be contesting the airspace for a few days at least, would keep the A-10s out of the picture for a few days (especially if there is no nearby airbase) and the Marines would be reliant on low level helicopter gunships, transport of their armor and a some artillery batteries would be crucial to survival let alone success.

Taking away the Marine's air assets is unthinkable. Basically a death sentence to the invasion troops. I don't think being dumped headfirst into a meat grinder is what our troops signed up for.


Attacking the Chinese artificial reef bases they built would leave no options for trickery as to the landing site. And those bases would have the equivalent military power of having multiple unsinkable aircraft carriers protected by massive SAM and anti ship missile batteries, as well as a likely hypersonic "carrier killer" missile battery.

With heavy duty concrete bunkers with troops, supplies, mortars, cannons, etc. would be a challenge even with all the assets we could bring. The Chinese planes would be taking off with FULL weapons and fuel loads, while our carrier based planes would have limited takeoff weights, need to hit tankers to refuel, etc.

So basically it negates use of the Marines in the invasion until the battle is nearly won by nothing but air power. (wish we could include naval bombardment to that statement, but every ship with large caliber guns has been mothballed/sunk or sold for scrap.

Having different attack options is necessary especially if plan A fails. If all you have is a Plan A, you already pretty much screwed up.
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk55732 View Post
There is no way that you can hide this kind of restructuring.
Are you starting to get the feeling you were part of the Commandant's initial wave of restructuring?
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:18 AM
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Can't see the Chinese making a substantial land grab unless they draw off US forces first by having NK make a push into SK. If NK can take the harbors, the MC will be about all that's capable to taking them back. Can't see how that can happen without heavy lift and dedicated air support and armor, since NK is big on tanks and artillery.
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Seems that the Navy and Pentagon have determined a new(old) kind of war for the future of the USMC.

https://news.usni.org/2020/03/23/new...ittoral-forces

https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/03...0-china-pivot/

It will focus on a littoral war campaign in the South China Sea.

Going away are all the heavy armor units. I'm not sure that means they are completely dumping MBT's, but I doubt you will see anything larger that a 4 tank platoon in an armor battalion. It's going to be LAVs and Amtracs for most of the armor.

Gone also are main force howitzer battery units. No info on what will be kept, but most likely just a few guns assigned to main battalions.

Helicopter, Osprey, and attack fighter units are going to be cut hard too.


Seems like the goal now is to attack Tarawa again all these decades later.

The Corps will be getting smaller as well. A lot of the skill sets dropped or reduced won't see much increase in new areas. Air Wings will be gutted. I'm not sure they will even qualify as division sized units like in the past. Can't even be sure they won't just get folded into the ground divisions. About the only type of force due for an increase are missile armed units.




I won't deny that fighting a littoral war with China will need some force adjustments, but it seems a lot like monotasking. Marines have fought out of their prime element many times since the end of WW2. Korea, Vietnam, Cold War brushfires, GW1, GW2, and GWOT have had the Marines fighting many times far away from the classic shore battles. We never lost our shore skills either for all that distraction, and also proved competent at all these other jobs. I'm not sure that monotasking is smart. Marines prove themselves rather useful even outside their core mission. Ditching so much air capability also doesn't seem so smart.

If this goes through as planned I hope the Army stops their slow ditching of main armor. I seriously would hate to see American troops stuck into a Europe or Asia land war with only a division or two worth of MBT armor.

I'm always against any reduction in artillery power anywhere. Artillery is how war has been won ever since they cast the first bronze ones.

Consider this old Jarhead concerned.
"radical restructure"

=

"we're broke and so we're downsizing and focusing on agility instead of firepower. by the way did you see how agile our combat forces will be??"
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clingmansdome View Post
Can't see the Chinese making a substantial land grab unless they draw off US forces first by having NK make a push into SK. If NK can take the harbors, the MC will be about all that's capable to taking them back. Can't see how that can happen without heavy lift and dedicated air support and armor, since NK is big on tanks and artillery.
The Chinese are already making substantial land grabs. Or are in a position to do so if they elect to do so.

In Asia, the Chinese logistically have home field advantage.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:22 AM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...irement_debate

We have a hole in our military capability that will become very obvious if we have to fight the chinese on their manmade islands.

The battleships were retired with the promise that the Zumwalt would would take over the role of naval cannon shore bombardment. Well, they gave up on the Zumwalt's gun.

Then said that missiles alone were sufficient.
Well, cruise missiles can now be intercepted pretty effectively by the major powers. These are slow easy targets.
And no more naval guns that will make a difference. a single 5 inch gun on the destroyers is not going to fill this role.

So it all has to be done by air power now. Painting the military into a corner. 1 option.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
Sounds like an Enemy of the US is restructuring the military.

Crazy.
You are now seeing the results of the obama/demokratik-socialist installed officers that replaced the LOYAL officers that were purged from the services. Expect to see the same things in the other armed services.

The Party wants a military that THEY can CONTROL and one that is WEAK against other communist-socialist countries.

And our enemies STILL occupy positions of power and command at the highest levels.

Now that you are confined to your homes and have time on your hands, just Google the members of our Congress and other high ranking people and see just how many are CARD CARRYING MEMBERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PARTY OF AMERICA. The information is publicly out there.

The threat is REAL!
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:05 PM
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Maybe we need some earthquake creating submarines that will run rogue waves over those islands.

Then we show up stating we heard distress calls by those in the encampments.
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