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Old 03-30-2020, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronic the Hashhog View Post
+1 on the 3rd world comment above. If its sooo bad why isnt it wiping out places like guatemala, mexico, aaaaallll of africa???? Its weird, i ait buying it, we are missing something.
I doubt there was a big line at the Wuhan Airport in Jan. saying, "Quick, when is the next plane to Guatemala? I want to climb the Pacaya volcano and then hike in to swim in beautiful Semuc Champey"

Actually, it does look pretty nice.

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Old 03-30-2020, 12:31 AM
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my mom was working in the hospital e.r. they set up vaccines for the swine flu at the church down the street. mom made sure i walked down there to get a shot. no one i knew was sick from it...
I was officially diagnosed with "H1N1",because they had reporting requirements at the time.
Guess what? I felt like I had the flu. Got over it just fine.


Still had to get the vaccine though, to satisfy credentialing..... what a joke.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:50 AM
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+1 on the 3rd world comment above. If its sooo bad why isnt it wiping out places like guatemala, mexico, aaaaallll of africa???? Its weird, i ait buying it, we are missing something.
What makes you think that they have not been hit hard?

Governments lie.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:57 AM
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Honestly, swine was worse (so far). Hell last years flu wS pretty close. 911 was a different thing altogether so hard to compare. Difference is the 24 hr news cycle and the political environment. The hostility between wh and press has led to them sensationalizing this to hurt the right at our expense.

Now, this could get bad but it simply is overstated at this point based on numbers.

Keep preppin tho, might pop its top any minute, never underesti.ate the power of stupid people in large numbers.
Most people don't realize that the "normal" flu kills tens of thousands a year.

Every year.

But no one is shutting down the economy every flu season, are they?

Completely agenda driven.
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:20 AM
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Most people don't realize that the "normal" flu kills tens of thousands a year.

Every year.

But no one is shutting down the economy every flu season, are they?

Completely agenda driven.
Best case scenario is around 3 million dead, unless they come up with a cure very quickly. That's 1%. That assumes hospitals are like today. Ventilators as needed, and operating at full staff levels. Everyone will get the virus at some point, unless they are truly isolated.

Not the end of the world, but that is a lot of dead.
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronic the Hashhog View Post
+1 on the 3rd world comment above. If its sooo bad why isnt it wiping out places like guatemala, mexico, aaaaallll of africa???? Its weird, i ait buying it, we are missing something.
I doubt there was a big line at the Wuhan Airport in Jan. saying, "Quick, when is the next plane to Guatemala? I want to climb the Pacaya volcano and then hike in to swim in beautiful Semuc Champey"

Lol... valid point.
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:25 AM
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Guys, you're all missing the worst part of this Covid-19 mess. This is only the FIRST WAVE of it. There is a strong possibility that later on this year we could get hit with a SECOND WAVE of Covid-19. If that happens and follows like most pandemics do, the second wave will be worse than the first one and probably have a higher death count than the first wave had to it.

Look up the Spanish Flu of 1918. That pandemic went around the world 4 or 5 times before it finally died out. It killed millions of people and did untold billions of dollars of damage even back then. Also check out some CDC sites about pandemics and how they spread and proliferate. I'm sure that you'll find the reading quite interesting.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...framework.html
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:16 AM
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I remember being in school when President Kennedy was shot, they sent us home early. I remember being at work when the space shuttle exploded taking off. I was also at work when 9/11 happened. Retired now for some time. History is history. Concerned at the moment for grandkids... and our own survival.
I was 8 when JFK got domed... teachers all crying, but it was a woke moment for me. I was at work for the SS explosion, also 911. We went up on the roof of our 4-story building and we could see the smoke.

Watts riots, 1968 Democratic Convention, Kent State 1970, all are pale by comparison to what is happening now. I retire in a month, am in good health and will be lucky if nothing bad happens to anyone close to me.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:32 AM
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Guys, you're all missing the worst part of this Covid-19 mess. This is only the FIRST WAVE of it. There is a strong possibility that later on this year we could get hit with a SECOND WAVE of Covid-19. If that happens and follows like most pandemics do, the second wave will be worse than the first one and probably have a higher death count than the first wave had to it.

Look up the Spanish Flu of 1918. That pandemic went around the world 4 or 5 times before it finally died out. It killed millions of people and did untold billions of dollars of damage even back then. Also check out some CDC sites about pandemics and how they spread and proliferate. I'm sure that you'll find the reading quite interesting.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-res...framework.html
A wave of infection would make sense if there was no air travel. But with global air travel, there was no wave, but more of a global explosion.

The bad news = explosion of numbers
The good news = When its over, its over. (until another mutation, different enough to bypass immunity developed emerges)
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:02 AM
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I am an RN, and so I have been watching the numbers very carefully.

COVID-19 is 3 times as infectious as the flu, and the death rate if you have it is 3 times higher.

The only reason that more people have not died is because so many people have not yet come into contact with the virus. That will of course, change.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:33 AM
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I am an RN, and so I have been watching the numbers very carefully.

COVID-19 is 3 times as infectious as the flu, and the death rate if you have it is 3 times higher.

The only reason that more people have not died is because so many people have not yet come into contact with the virus. That will of course, change.
Thanks for sharing from such a key point of view. We are down to a skeleton crew at work, the entire facility was cleaned over the weekend.

Some employees who quarantined themselves are slowly returning to work, nobody anywhere is sick, although I was in late February and so were many others with bad colds.

We are a close (not that close...) group and don't interact with many other people in the company, all meetings are skype. Our daily stand-up meetings are on hold.

Outside of work, it is just my small family, my GF and my cats. I shop very sparingly. The less contact we have with others, the better our chances are that we will not get sick. Take the usual precautions, hand sanitizer, wash hands frequently, I also wash my face after I get in from outside. I wipe down the steering wheel of my car, door handles and anything else within my reach when I drive.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:18 PM
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Most people don't realize that the "normal" flu kills tens of thousands a year.

Every year.

But no one is shutting down the economy every flu season, are they?
That's not really a good comparison. The flu usually kills about 12,000 to 60,000 every year, during the whole year.

You can't compare that to what we've seen over the past few months at the very start of an outbreak.

Best case scenario right now, we're looking at 60-80k deaths. That's with everything we've done, locking people down, closing off the country, mobilizing health care. We don't do any of that HUGE amount of work and pain and safety for the flu, and yet we're still likely going to have more deaths than we see with the flu.

There's no natural immunity from vaccinations or people who had this virus before this year, it's death rate is way higher than the flu. If we did nothing, best case predictions were 40-70% of the population infected, 1% dead. Worldwide that's 32 million deaths, in the US that would be 1.4 million deaths on the low end.

Plus it's not just about the people who get sick. Most hospitals aren't ready to take lots of people. I was talking to a paramedic the other day who said they have 3 ambulances in their town. He had to wait 20 minutes at the hospital for a bed to open up, and then spent another 15 minutes cleaning the bus because it had a suspected corona case.

Ambulance is out of service for 35 minutes, plus the transport and call time. Usually they have other towns that have mutual aid to fill in the gaps, not right now. If someone has a heart attack or stroke and has to wait an extra hour to go to the hospital...that's it.
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:53 PM
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There seems to be some positive news on the hydroxychloroquine / AZITHROMYCIN combo. Twitter has been censoring the statements by Brazilian President and Rudy G. on the subject.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...nt-coronavirus

Found an article in the WSJ giving updated positive report on the testing, but it is behind their pay wall. I guess their contribution to humanity is demanding that you pay for news you might need to deal with a global pandemic.

Meanwhile, the FDA has given approval to the drug for Covid 19 treatment.

https://fortune.com/2020/03/30/malar...authorization/

"Malaria drug Trump touted as coronavirus treatment has been given FDA emergency authorization"
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Old 03-30-2020, 02:02 PM
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It's the uncertainty over things like unemployment and the economy that are escalating this past what we've seen with prior events, in my opinion. Maybe there really were some follow-up attacks attempted after 9/11 that were thwarted, but generally speaking, there was no reason to think that anyone and everyone could be a target for terrorists. In comparison, the coronavirus doesn't care where you live, what demographic you fall under, etc. It's indiscriminate and has the potential to become an ongoing threat. In that regard, I think it *is* like the flu, where there will be talk of "a bad COVID-19 season" and annual vaccinations and so on, but even if it eventually becomes a normal consideration for most people, it's going to take a long time (months? years?) for that realization to override the panic we're seeing now.

I'm one of those folks who thinks we've already seen the first wave, as early as December. Frankly, I think I had it, along with my family. Friends and co-workers are of the same opinion. But nobody was freaking out about it then. Businesses weren't closing, entire industries weren't shutting down. It's those things that truly impact most of society, not actually contracting the virus. That's not to diminish the suffering of those who do get sick, or that of people who lose loved ones, but it is the source of the current tension. Speaking personally, my wife lost a job that she loved because of this, and it's impacting us financially. On top of that, we have a child who now has "coronavirus" in her vocabulary as the reason that she can't see her friends and grandparents, has to "virtually" attend school rather than in person, etc.
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Old 03-30-2020, 04:36 PM
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Did the media and PTB flip out like this in 08 or 09? Jog my memory or confirm no one cared about the last pandemic

Been pondering that question for a day or two now...
Clearly, given everything that's already happened in the response, this is an event for the history books. It doesn't have quite the instant shock of the 9/11 attacks, but it is a "big" moment in terms of what it might do, how we responded, and how it might change the course of the country.

When looking at how we've responded so far, it's important to remember, this is still early on. If you want to see a good picture of where this fits in to big outbreaks in history, this site has a great image. While that number looks small right now, remember that this is early on. The projected number of deaths for the US right now is around 80,000. That means worldwide, this will easily go past the 200,000 deaths from swine flu, making this the biggest epidemic in more than 100 years.

The reason we're seeing a different response to this, is because it's a different animal. H1N1, the outbreak you remembered, was one of the biggest we've had in the last 100 years, but even that was just a slight evolution of the 1918 Spanish Flu, a type of influenza that's been around for a while and some of the population has at least a partial resistance to.

The AIDS pandemic looks so big because it's over a 40 year time scale. While it's a big deal. Compared to other disease, it is very hard to spread, which makes that pandemic more controllable.

The Ebola outbreak which got big news in 2016 is so virulent that it partially stops its own spread because it kills patients so quickly and is only transmissible by body fluid. A lot of the spread we saw was because of poor infection control protocol and the way African cultures handle the dead.

None of those things apply to COVID-19. It can be easily spread, many people spreading the disease don't even know they're sick. It's deadlier than the flu, but doesn't kill fast enough to self-limit. There's very little natural immunity since it hasn't had a continuous worldwide spread before like influenza.

All of those things combined means this is a pretty "big" event, the likes of which we really haven't seen since the 1918 Spanish Flu which lasted for two years and killed more than 50,000,000 people.
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:58 PM
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OK. Memories.

I can remember 'good' soldiers and 'bad' soldiers. The 'bad' ones were Russians and East Germans [and I recognized the uniforms]. I did not know why they were bad -- I knew German women only whispered about the Russian soldiers [I was a bilingual toddler] and could tell they were afraid of them. 'Good' soldiers were friends, but at that age I really didn't know what an 'enemy' was. I can remember going through check points with 'bad' soldiers. I know my Dad might have to shoot his artillery at the bad soldiers.

And here is the interesting bit. I did not know was that if 'something started' my Mother was supposed to put my brother and I, the dog, her pistol, gas, and some supplies into our VW Beetle and drive 'west'. Mother told me that years later, but I knew there was some sort of plan like that -- don't remember hearing it. BUT I knew that my Mother couldn't find her way out of wet paper bag with one end open and that I learned to read a road map so that she wouldn't drive towards the 'bad soldiers' [99% possibility with her sense of direction]. I couldn't 'read' but I could read a map. Go figure. And that somehow I knew I needed to know it. [probably had a natural inclination too].

I turned 5 on the boat back to the USA. That would have been 1961. I found it interesting that US gas cans were red and the lines on the USA road maps were different colors.

I remember hearing about that 'poor silly girl' who died because the president lied to her. Or maybe the poor girl was killed. Or killed herself [I didn't understand how a person could kill themselves]. And how horrible the President treated his nice pretty wife. [Note to adults. Kids hear what you say, and some are smart enough to be playing around and acting like they aren't listening -- i.e. kids can multi-task].

I remember hearing about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I remember hearing about how horrible our President was to allow poor Diem to be murdered. That he should have warned Diem. And while I didn't understand 'democracy' and 'dictatorships' I did know the first was good and the second bad and that the President doomed Vietnam [yeah, I heard that country name long before a lot of people].

So when the President was murdered I couldn't understand why the teacher was crying.

I watched the Vietnam war play out -- and my father went there 3 times. I saw the idiocy of the drugs, protests, bombings and so on. I saw Nixon end the war, open up China and all the hearings on TV for the impeachment and his resigning. The hong kong flu [whenever that happened].

I remember the first swine flu matter, got the shot twice because they thought the first one was not strong enough. I remember inflation. Gas lines. TP shortage. $100 CD's getting 13% interest. The Iranian 'revolution' and hostages.

Remember plenty of hurricanes. AIDS. Other misc. flu events. The Clinton impeachment. 9/11 and everything you probably remember.

While stuff is happening it feels like it will last forever and change you forever.

Some people DON'T change AT ALL regardless of what they experience.

Some people DO LEARN from the things they experience.

Some people CAN'T LEARN from what other people tell them. [Say, the Spanish Flu and the Great Depression -- both of which I heard about from older relatives.]

Some people DO LEARN from what other people tell them. Some practice what they learn. Some just remember it for when they think they will need it.

example -- Spanish Flu pre-'social distancing': The windows on the trolley were left open, even in the cold and rain. No one sat near anyone on the trolley. You always sat beside a window. You didn't even sit near someone on a bench waiting for the trolley. If the trolley looked 'too full' you started walking. Unless you were a man and would stand on outside door step holding on to the pole there.

People like to forget unpleasant things. That is a fact of life. I had 2 great-grandmothers die young -- a flu right after a birth, and pneumonia after 10 kids. A great Aunt die of typhoid. Go check your pre-WWI family history, you find out a lot of stuff.

For that matter, has anyone in your family told you about OPEC and the gas lines?
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:22 PM
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OK. Memories.

I can remember 'good' soldiers and 'bad' soldiers. The 'bad' ones were Russians and East Germans [and I recognized the uniforms]. I did not know why they were bad -- I knew German women only whispered about the Russian soldiers [I was a bilingual toddler] and could tell they were afraid of them. 'Good' soldiers were friends, but at that age I really didn't know what an 'enemy' was. I can remember going through check points with 'bad' soldiers. I know my Dad might have to shoot his artillery at the bad soldiers.

And here is the interesting bit. I did not know was that if 'something started' my Mother was supposed to put my brother and I, the dog, her pistol, gas, and some supplies into our VW Beetle and drive 'west'. Mother told me that years later, but I knew there was some sort of plan like that -- don't remember hearing it. BUT I knew that my Mother couldn't find her way out of wet paper bag with one end open and that I learned to read a road map so that she wouldn't drive towards the 'bad soldiers' [99% possibility with her sense of direction]. I couldn't 'read' but I could read a map. Go figure. And that somehow I knew I needed to know it. [probably had a natural inclination too].

I turned 5 on the boat back to the USA. That would have been 1961. I found it interesting that US gas cans were red and the lines on the USA road maps were different colors.

I remember hearing about that 'poor silly girl' who died because the president lied to her. Or maybe the poor girl was killed. Or killed herself [I didn't understand how a person could kill themselves]. And how horrible the President treated his nice pretty wife. [Note to adults. Kids hear what you say, and some are smart enough to be playing around and acting like they aren't listening -- i.e. kids can multi-task].

I remember hearing about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I remember hearing about how horrible our President was to allow poor Diem to be murdered. That he should have warned Diem. And while I didn't understand 'democracy' and 'dictatorships' I did know the first was good and the second bad and that the President doomed Vietnam [yeah, I heard that country name long before a lot of people].

So when the President was murdered I couldn't understand why the teacher was crying.

I watched the Vietnam war play out -- and my father went there 3 times. I saw the idiocy of the drugs, protests, bombings and so on. I saw Nixon end the war, open up China and all the hearings on TV for the impeachment and his resigning. The hong kong flu [whenever that happened].

I remember the first swine flu matter, got the shot twice because they thought the first one was not strong enough. I remember inflation. Gas lines. TP shortage. $100 CD's getting 13% interest. The Iranian 'revolution' and hostages.

Remember plenty of hurricanes. AIDS. Other misc. flu events. The Clinton impeachment. 9/11 and everything you probably remember.

While stuff is happening it feels like it will last forever and change you forever.

Some people DON'T change AT ALL regardless of what they experience.

Some people DO LEARN from the things they experience.

Some people CAN'T LEARN from what other people tell them. [Say, the Spanish Flu and the Great Depression -- both of which I heard about from older relatives.]

Some people DO LEARN from what other people tell them. Some practice what they learn. Some just remember it for when they think they will need it.

example -- Spanish Flu pre-'social distancing': The windows on the trolley were left open, even in the cold and rain. No one sat near anyone on the trolley. You always sat beside a window. You didn't even sit near someone on a bench waiting for the trolley. If the trolley looked 'too full' you started walking. Unless you were a man and would stand on outside door step holding on to the pole there.

People like to forget unpleasant things. That is a fact of life. I had 2 great-grandmothers die young -- a flu right after a birth, and pneumonia after 10 kids. A great Aunt die of typhoid. Go check your pre-WWI family history, you find out a lot of stuff.

For that matter, has anyone in your family told you about OPEC and the gas lines?
Well said sir! Or ma'am (Tips hat).

As for you younger folks that just read that... this is why the "Ok boomer" attitude you have adopted is so disrespectful and ****es everybody off. You aint seen **** and this to shall pass. Im not a boomer but i know how valuable they are. What this person was forced to flee is exactly why so many of us love this country, fought for her, and will dust off our old uniforms and rifles if nessesary to combat dictators, communists and socialists. Foreign or domestic. Think about that the next time that filthy "ok boomer" slur comes out of your mouth.
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:37 PM
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Stefan Molyneux kind of sums it up for me...

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Old 04-02-2020, 05:54 PM
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My $.02

There are tons of good views, opinions, observations posted so far. Kudos to all of the contributors.

Will Covid-19 cause a war ? The disease itself won't ... but ... look at the political disagreements around the world so far. As resources dwindle, hundreds of thousands die, governments accuse one another of "stealing" resources (already reported in the news) and economies crumble ... war is a strong possibility. What one country has in abundance that will assist another country during this world-wide health crisis is as good a reason for war as any. And like most confrontations ... it won't be a sudden, overnight occurrence. It will start small and escalate. In that regard ... watch the pricing of oil between the Arabs and Russia. The world runs on petroleum.

What happens when a number of countries become convinced China did this on purpose via a Bio-Weapons lab release that went wrong ? Wet Market my butt ! I will never believe it was due to bats or anything else that came from that "wet market".

One contributor observed that the 'Baby Boomers' haven't done anything to prevent this world-wide incident and have handled it very badly from the start. I guess you could blame my generation but .... these type screw ups have occurred all through history. If it wasn't a war ... it was discrimination ... slavery ... The Crusades, etc. etc.

What is truly scary is ....

In my estimation, 90% + of the world's population has proven it cannot be trusted or depended upon to handle a real crisis. The vast majority of people around the world have ignored warnings, instructions and when it came down to it ... the only thing they could think of doing was buying a truck load of toilet paper.

Really ? REALLY ? Buy a room full of toilet paper? Oh ya ... that is gonna get you through this pandemic.

In the past few days in the US, a Train Engineer purposely wreck his train because he is convinced Covid-19 is a government conspiracy. Someone else stabbed a Chinese family to death because the family represented a threat in his mind. People are fighting over food and toilet paper. There are armed gangs in South Africa that are robbing stores in large groups to steal anything they can get their hands on. These are just a few examples of the insane things people are doing.

It would appear that Humanity is doomed based on the reactions of so many around the world.

Mother Nature is most likely correct in weeding down the worlds population. Hopefully only the intelligent will survive this.
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Old 04-02-2020, 06:11 PM
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You know what I don't remember? I was a HS freshman when H5N1 swine flu or what have you was found.

H5N1 is generally known as bird flu. Swine flu is from 1918 and then again in 1976 with mass vaccinations. We went to school gyms for instance and walked in one door, stood in line, got a shot from one of those injector guns, and then walked out the doors at the other side. In my case I seized up and collapsed on the sidewalk but I guess someone had to do it. Then the one you are are likely speaking of in 2009 and I'll be honest with you, I don't even remember the 2009 version so while it may have been mainstream it was nothing like what's happening now. I was probably a bit more focused on the financial issues at the time.



So that lesson being 'hey do you want a vaccine or you want to rekindle a 1918 fire. No real lifestyle changes like we see now.


This is also not comparable to 1911 for a couple reasons. 1. Back then we were just rolling along with no special sense of new directions, desires to work outside the box, leanings towards everyone being involved in the next new life or business so to speak.


Now fast forward to SARS-Cov-2. Our economy was rocking on, this new awareness will create new businesses. The big thing though is after 9/11 there was a feeling of what next, who can be trusted. Restricted movements in travel. We won't have that this time. Everyone will be fired up to get back to not only normal live but I expect even better life. Fewer restrictions, more options perhaps.



As bad as this is and that we are still not even to the half time show yet a lot of promising things are happening. supplies, drugs, fast tracking most any reasonable solution, even the virus behavior suggest a vaccine may likely be available.



That's my feeling anyway. Time will tell.
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