Ethical non-monogamy

[Cuteandfuzzybunnies]

Originally Posted by LibShooter

You probably have more experience with this than I do, but... if your girlfriend does become 1/10th the wife of your present one... DO NOT MENTION IT! [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

You think that would be a mistake to tell her ? Lol. Man I’d have to be stupid. That would be like telling one she was better in bed or prettier, etc. BIG MISTAKE.

I like being poly. But being in the dog house with two women isn’t exactly fun. And often the case is when you are with one you are with both. I have a friend with 3 wives and I can just imagine how miserable their fights are.

[LibShooter]

Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies

In other words polygamy was common enough that most people had an extended family member or neighbor with multiple wives. Much like polygamous cultures today.

There is just no real evidence of this. There is no doubt that polygamy was allowed and mostly accepted in the time of Jesus. Josephus goes out of his way to point out a couple of cases of plural marriage. However you don't hear of "casual" references to everyday polygamy that one might expect if plural marriage were commonplace. Luke never wrote anything like, "Rachael, second wife of Aaron brought Jesus the loaves." Josephus doesn't make a casual reference to "Jacob and his three wives..."

There is no direct evidence either way about polygamy's prevelance... however, it seems to me that a fair interpretation suggests it was very rare.

[Cuteandfuzzybunnies]

Originally Posted by LibShooter

There is just no real evidence of this. There is no doubt that polygamy was allowed and mostly accepted in the time of Jesus. Josephus goes out of his way to point out a couple of cases of plural marriage. However you don't hear of "casual" references to everyday polygamy that one might expect if plural marriage were commonplace. Luke never wrote anything like, "Rachael, second wife of Aaron brought Jesus the loaves." Josephus doesn't make a casual reference to "Jacob and his three wives..."

There is no direct evidence either way about polygamy's prevelance... however, it seems to me that a fair interpretation suggests it was very rare.

We can’t expect casual references in the Bible for several reasons. One being that in a poly-normative society you call somebodies their wife their wife. There is no reason to mention that they are a plural wife.

However I’ve posted articles that reference historical accounts that have casual references to plural families.

And I don’t know why you would say very rare is a fair interpretation. There is zero evidence for that. Palestine was a polygamous culture why would polygamy be more rare there than in other similar cultures ?


The second paper I linked to notes that the only accounts of polygamy being rare seem to be accounts from several hundred years later , and are likely biased by the changing moral view.


We do know what polygamous societies rates of polygamy are today. And it tends to be 5-15 %. And the incentive to marry more than one wife is higher in societies with strong taboos against unmarried sex or prostitution. Both those things existed in 1st century Israel much as they do in the Islamic world today.

[PeterEnergy]

Israel is made up of 12 tribes. These ‘tribes’ are the 12 children of the grandson of Abraham, Jacob. The covenant name of Jacob is Israel and his 4 wives gave birth to the 12 tribes of Israel that is foretold in Revelations.

From this, I would conclude polygyny is deeply rooted in Judeo-Christian mythos.

FUN FACT: Jacob actually had 13 children. His one daughter, Dinah, did not generate a tribe.

[cat_1978]

Originally Posted by PeterEnergy

Israel is made up of 12 tribes. These ‘tribes’ are the 12 children of the grandson of Abraham, Jacob. The covenant name of Jacob is Israel and his 4 wives gave birth to the 12 tribes of Israel that is foretold in Revelations.

From this, I would conclude polygyny is deeply rooted in Judeo-Christian mythos.

FUN FACT: Jacob actually had 13 children. His one daughter, Dinah, did not generate a tribe.

That's great but this is not the subject of this thread.

The subject is this:

Ethical non-monogamy, Polyamory, Solo Poly, Compersion, Thruple

So say something about these. Add some documentation or analysis of the reasons or the social effects of these relationships.

[PurpleKitty]

I'm sure he had more than 13, all those boys and only one girl? Doubtful, to me. But only boys mattered for the historical record. Dinah was only important because a whole town was destroyed because she was (I believe) seduced. I am sure there were more girls.

[PeterEnergy]

Originally Posted by cat_1978

That's great ... say something about these. Add some documentation or analysis of the reasons or the social effects of these relationships.

After 9 pages, what more can be said?

[LibShooter]

Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies

Palestine was a polygamous culture why would polygamy be more rare there than in other similar cultures ?

The evidence is not strong that Palestine was still a polygamous society anymore in the First Century. It had been under strong Roman influence for almost 100 years when Jesus started his ministry. The old traditions were fading fast at that time.

[ActionJackson]

Originally Posted by Basic Human Unit

Would you call Solomon an unethical man?

End the end ... God did.

[Cuteandfuzzybunnies]

Originally Posted by LibShooter

The evidence is not strong that Palestine was still a polygamous society anymore in the First Century. It had been under strong Roman influence for almost 100 years when Jesus started his ministry. The old traditions were fading fast at that time.

Thee evidence is stronger that it was than it wasn’t. There is no contemporary writing saying the Jews didn’t practice polygamy. There is some writing around the 7th century that was inserted into 1st century texts but that’s not evidence. And again why did the Romans outlaw polygamy among the Jews when they granted them Roman rights ? You don’t pass laws against things nobody does.

You have to understand before contact with the Romans MOST societies where polygamists. The Greeks. The Jews. The Vikings , etc. if we look at the history of the whole world polygyny is the norm not the outlier.

Btw the Sephardic Jews practiced polygamy much later than other Jews.

[TimBob]

Originally Posted by PurpleKitty

Bob, you are the one promoting incest. Even Bunnies won't go that far.

But this is how it works: "Don't tell the gay man it is a sin" 40 years later teaching your grandson how to have gay sex, and the kid is only 6. Happening all over in public schools. All in the name of "tolerance and diversity".

"Polygamy is OK" pretty soon we have Bob coming along with "Incest is OK" but suddenly backpedals when called on it. You let the genie out of the bottle.

My husband once made a very wise statement: Many people don't become believers because they don't want to give up a sin. He said it could be any sin, but for him it was (fornication). He couldn't leave the women alone and it literally took getting run over by a truck to make him stop.

I think many people prone to a sin, say, fornication, are bound and determined to find any excuse to justify and endorse their particular flavor. It may be bondage. It may be gay. It may be threesomes. It may be children. But it is all sin.

I will however add the Bible is clear that those who sin against a child are in for quite the whipping. As Epstein has no doubt discovered by now.

PK,

I don't always agree with you, and I know this is three days late...

But this may be your BEST post. Ever.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Cabinet Maker]

Couch the debauchery in whatever cloak of historical evidence you wish. Yes, God allowed a whole bunch of stuff to happen due to very specific circumstances. That does not give a permanent pass forever. For a Christian, the words, teachings and examples given us by Jesus trump anything you drag out of the OT. The New Covenant trumps the old, and hanging your hat on Jesus saying He wasn't going to change a word of the OT as carte Blanche license to polygamy ignores the fact that Jesus FULFILLED the Law!
So the Law of Moses and Man were now subsumed by the New Covenant. Over and over, Jesus did things that were heretical for observant Jews, and loved to poke the Sadducces and Pharisee's noses in it. Of course, mostly for their hypocrisy, but their adherence to the Law over everything was the thing He was most upset about.

So, please, if you want to use the dubious, but probably not inaccurate fact of historical existence of multiple wives to justify your own dabbling, that's on you. But trying to drag Jesus into some sort of tacit acceptance goes completely against everything in the NT. If you can read Matthew 19: 1-9 among others, and still conclude that multiple anything is either indicated or approved, this is just willful ignorance.


But I think you all know this.

Carry on.

[PalmettoTree]

Just because people did ... does not mean God approved.

[PurpleKitty]

Solomon chased after other Gods and worshipped them. That, to my understanding, is why he got in trouble with God. His foreign wives led him into it - I don't think he would have had a problem if he had hundreds of devout Jewish wives but the foreign ones got him in trouble.

[Nomad, 2nd]

Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker

Couch the debauchery in whatever cloak of historical evidence you wish. Yes, God allowed a whole bunch of stuff to happen due to very specific circumstances. That does not give a permanent pass forever.
on.

So, your contention is that God is NOT: "The same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)

Allrighty then.

[Cuteandfuzzybunnies]

[QUOTE=TimBob;19875330]

Originally Posted by PurpleKitty

Bob, you are the one promoting incest. Even Bunnies won't go that far.

But this is how it works: "Don't tell the gay man it is a sin" 40 years later teaching your grandson how to have gay sex, and the kid is only 6. Happening all over in public schools. All in the name of "tolerance and diversity".

"Polygamy is OK" pretty soon we have Bob coming along with "Incest is OK" but suddenly backpedals when called on it. You let the genie out of the bottle.

My husband once made a very wise statement: Many people don't become believers because they don't want to give up a sin.

Have you ever thought that satan uses this to convince people to forsake god ? You convince them that sex , marriage mojo or poly, music , wealth and prosperity etc are sinful and they turn away from god.

God is not an “ Indian giver “ he is eternal and unchanging. Polygamy was not a sin when Moses did it and it’s not a sin now.

Can a poly or mono marriage be sinful , you bet. But that doesn’t mean they all are or that none are.

[JL1]

[quote=Cuteandfuzzybunnies;19875688]

Originally Posted by TimBob

Have you ever thought that satan uses this to convince people to forsake god ? You convince them that sex , marriage mojo or poly, music , wealth and prosperity etc are sinful and they turn away from god.

God is not an “ Indian giver “ he is eternal and unchanging. Polygamy was not a sin when Moses did it and it’s not a sin now.

Can a poly or mono marriage be sinful , you bet. But that doesn’t mean they all are or that none are.

But as one grows in the faith and learns more they begin to see the scope of their own sin. No one convinces them. They are growing, getting closer to God and seeing how much Christ truly paid for them. No one, as they grow, justifies their own wrongs. They learn, they repent, see another wrong and repeat the repentance process.

[Cabinet Maker]

Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd

So, your contention is that God is NOT: "The same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)

Allrighty then.

So I guess your Dad treated you exactly the same from when you were a toddler through adulthood?


God is the same. How He treats and teaches us is not.

[Nomad, 2nd]

Originally Posted by Cabinet Maker

So I guess your Dad treated you exactly the same from when you were a toddler through adulthood?


God is the same. How He treats and teaches us is not.

I wasn't told multiple wives was ok at 14, but not at 20.

[Cabinet Maker]

Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd

I wasn't told multiple wives was ok at 14, but not at 20.

A nice flippant reply.

This is just another example of the danger of private interpretation of Scripture.

Do what you think is right, and make those specious arguments to Jesus at your After Action Report.