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Old 11-21-2019, 04:29 PM
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God's law[s] are about how we should live on this earth. Most of the Christian Bible is about how we as Christians must act. This is seldom the focus of Christian worship services or Christian practice. We often hear we must put Christ back in schools, government, society but seldom do we focus on following God's law[s]. Because of valid exceptions we tend to rationalize and make the exceptions the rule.

Is that a true generalized statement about today? Yes, you may follow God's law and have faith in Christ. The point is nations and people have been and will be punished as a whole for departing at a whole from God's law[s].

The Old Testament laws were given to a specific people -- the 12 tribes of Israel. They lived in a unique time and place. They weren't forced to live in a multicultural, hodge-podge, mish-mash, society of every nationality, race, ethnicity, religion, ideology, and political leaning. They were able to set up their society in such a way as to follow the specific moral and ceremonial laws given to them by God via Moses. But even when they had the opportunity to live apart from the Babel of their time ... they failed. They failed so badly that God gave them a bill of divorce (at least the 10 northern tribes). They were all sent into captivity for their inability to keep the laws of God and for turning to false gods.


So if the Israelites weren't able to keep the law then it's not likely that today's multicultural society can either.


Nevertheless ... Christ loved His people so much that He died and shed His blood to redeem (buy back) His people and to open the door to salvation and everlasting life in His Kingdom.
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Old 11-21-2019, 05:03 PM
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Like I said earlier ... we still need to repent of sin (transgression of the law) but it's the blood of Christ that ultimately cleanses us of sin ... not our works. Nobody can keep every jot and tittle of the law except for Christ, Himself. So keeping the Sabbath from sun down Friday to sun down Saturday won't make you more saved than someone who keeps their Sabbath on Sunday. A person who eats unleavened bread is no more saved than one who eats Wonder bread. Now if your conscience tells you to keep every law of the Old Testament then you probably should.
I agree but based on your post you do not understand the point of the discussion.
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Old 11-21-2019, 05:05 PM
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I feel that while salvation itself comes through the messiah , following the Torah gives you a closer relationship with god as well as blessings while here on earth. To me there is more to religion than getting my ticket to heaven punched. It’s about making something of the blessings of life that god has given us. And of course blessings for my progeny also.
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Old 11-21-2019, 05:20 PM
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The Old Testament laws were given to a specific people -- the 12 tribes of Israel. They lived in a unique time and place. They weren't forced to live in a multicultural, hodge-podge, mish-mash, society of every nationality, race, ethnicity, religion, ideology, and political leaning. They were able to set up their society in such a way as to follow the specific moral and ceremonial laws given to them by God via Moses. But even when they had the opportunity to live apart from the Babel of their time ... they failed. They failed so badly that God gave them a bill of divorce (at least the 10 northern tribes). They were all sent into captivity for their inability to keep the laws of God and for turning to false gods.

So if the Israelites weren't able to keep the law then it's not likely that today's multicultural society can either.

Nevertheless ... Christ loved His people so much that He died and shed His blood to redeem (buy back) His people and to open the door to salvation and everlasting life in His Kingdom.
So according to you keeping the 10 Commandments is not necessary and violation has no Godly consequences.

Based on you post what is the point of keeping the Old Testament part of the Christian Bible.

Based on you post all one deeds to do as say, "Jesus I'm sorry if you think I have sinned forgive me." Then you are off to do as you please again.

I was wrong on my previous post about you. You are dead on the example. Sin does not matter so long as you believe and ask for forgiveness.

As for you examples you are confusing things God ask the Jews to do vs. things God expects all of us to do or not do. The reason they do not matter to you is all that is important is that you ask for forgiveness for doing as you please if God happens to think you should not do them.

You are exactly the point of my OP. You believe all that is important is having faith that what ever God might think you did wrong his Son saved you from you behavior.

So what you do in this life is irrelevant to what God the Father expects. You have faith His Son made at alright.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT!
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:04 PM
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I may be wrong but it think the is what AJ describes from the book of Romans. We all know the struggle Paul wrote about.......... Romans 7:14 We know that the Law is spiritual, but I am a creature of the flesh [worldly, self-reliant—carnal and unspiritual], sold into slavery to sin [and serving under its control]. 15 For I do not understand my own actions [I am baffled and bewildered by them]. I do not practice what I want to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate [and yielding to my human nature, my worldliness—my sinful capacity]. 16 Now if I habitually do what I do not want to do, [that means] I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good (morally excellent). 17 So now [if that is the case, then] it is no longer I who do it [the disobedient thing which I despise], but the sin [nature] which lives in me. 18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh [my human nature, my worldliness—my sinful capacity]. For the willingness [to do good] is present in me, but the doing of good is not. 19 For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not me that acts], but the sin [nature] which lives in me.

21 So I find it to be the law [of my inner self], that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully delight in the law of God in my inner self [with my new nature], 23 but I see a different law and rule of action in the members of my body [in its appetites and desires], waging war against the law of my mind and subduing me and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is within my members. 24 Wretched and miserable man that I am! Who will [rescue me and] set me free from this body of death [this corrupt, mortal existence]? 25 Thanks be to God [for my deliverance] through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind serve the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh [my human nature, my worldliness, my sinful capacity—I serve] the law of sin. (AMP)
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:38 PM
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The Old Testament laws were given to a specific people -- the 12 tribes of Israel. They lived in a unique time and place. They weren't forced to live in a multicultural, hodge-podge, mish-mash, society of every nationality, race, ethnicity, religion, ideology, and political leaning. They were able to set up their society in such a way as to follow the specific moral and ceremonial laws given to them by God via Moses. But even when they had the opportunity to live apart from the Babel of their time ... they failed. They failed so badly that God gave them a bill of divorce (at least the 10 northern tribes). They were all sent into captivity for their inability to keep the laws of God and for turning to false gods.

So if the Israelites weren't able to keep the law then it's not likely that today's multicultural society can either.

Nevertheless ... Christ loved His people so much that He died and shed His blood to redeem (buy back) His people and to open the door to salvation and everlasting life in His Kingdom.
So according to you keeping the 10 Commandments is not necessary and violation has no Godly consequences.

Based on you post what is the point of keeping the Old Testament part of the Christian Bible.

Based on you post all one deeds to do as say, "Jesus I'm sorry if you think I have sinned forgive me." Then you are off to do as you please again.

I was wrong on my previous post about you. You are dead on the example. Sin does not matter so long as you believe and ask for forgiveness.

As for you examples you are confusing things God ask the Jews to do vs. things God expects all of us to do or not do. The reason they do not matter to you is all that is important is that you ask for forgiveness for doing as you please if God happens to think you should not do them.

You are exactly the point of my OP. You believe all that is important is having faith that what ever God might think you did wrong his Son saved you from you behavior.

So what you do in this life is irrelevant to what God the Father expects. You have faith His Son made at alright.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT!
The Ten Commandments where part of the law given to the Jewish people. There are actually many more rules that are to be followed.

However the noahide covenant applies to non Jewish people. there are fewer rules only 7, for example no keeping the Shabbat. But they are very Simular yo the Ten Commandments other than the Shabbat. And while blasphemy and worship of false gods is still forbidden there is no specific prohibition on speaking the name or forgetting it I suppose.

Of course all God’s creation must remember the first commandment to all creation not just men. Be fruitful and multiply.

but the difference between the rules for the chosen people of Israel versus the rules for gentiles is not limited tot he commandments versus the noahide covenant. The 613 Mitzvot of the Torah are not all for all people but for the Jews. They include the noahide laws and the Ten Commandments brought from
Moses plus much more.

How the messiah’s sacrifice relates to the abrahamic and noahide covenants is certainly a subject for much debate. I personally feel that the messiah came to give the Torah to all people of the earth allowing us all to keep it and enjoy its blessings on earth BUT also free us from temple sacrifice by his blood.
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:41 PM
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Do we Christians over emphasize the forgiveness of Christ above living as God’s law requires.
With 38,000 denominations, I doubt a single answer does justice to the range of denominational focus.

Putting the facts and relevant opinions aside, the theological question seems to be about gateways and bridges.

Gateway:What emphasis attracts followers? An annoying fact of leading is one must have followers.

Bridge: Once people are in the pews and you can teach them the nuances of your theology, where should you stand to bridge the law and grace? Of course, implied in the question is not to alienate the newly attracted flock. If you look at it, not as a theological problem but a math problem (of optimum or maximum), it may lighten your path.

My view has been stated by others, namely Jesus; only those that do the will of the Father have truly accepted the Saving Grace of our Lord Jesus. YMMV.
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:50 PM
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So according to you keeping the 10 Commandments is not necessary and violation has no Godly consequences.

Based on you post what is the point of keeping the Old Testament part of the Christian Bible.

Based on you post all one deeds to do as say, "Jesus I'm sorry if you think I have sinned forgive me." Then you are off to do as you please again.

I was wrong on my previous post about you. You are dead on the example. Sin does not matter so long as you believe and ask for forgiveness.

As for you examples you are confusing things God ask the Jews to do vs. things God expects all of us to do or not do. The reason they do not matter to you is all that is important is that you ask for forgiveness for doing as you please if God happens to think you should not do them.

You are exactly the point of my OP. You believe all that is important is having faith that what ever God might think you did wrong his Son saved you from you behavior.

So what you do in this life is irrelevant to what God the Father expects. You have faith His Son made at alright.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT!

You're getting to the crux of the differences of the original practice and teachings of the Universal (Catholic) Church founded by Jesus through His Apostles and The Rock to whom He gave the Keys of the Kingdom and upon which He built that Church, with the 1,500 year later decision of an unhappy monk to publically bitch about some things (many justified) that he thought were wrong with the Church. The subsequent consequences being so many different interpretations of Scripture as to boggle the mind. One of the majors being the concept that "Faith Alone" is sufficient for Salvation, and the "Once saved, always saved" belief which absolves both past and future sins.

Yet the fact is that we are human. And with that comes both Original Sin (which can be absolved through Baptism), and Concupisence (our human tendency towards earthly sin). As hard as we try, we can never avoid sin completely, thus God gives the Grace afforded us through the Sacrament of Reconciliation and Penance.

We'll never be the perfect specimens we should be, and God knows that. But He certainly knows our hearts and our real desires to be the people He wants. If we are truly sorry for our sins, and make whole-hearted attempts to both stop the sinning and repent, He will shower us with unimaginable Graces to help us.

But asking for forgiveness for a sin which you willfully repeat is silly. Many Catholics play the Confession Roulette Wheel, thinking if they "confess" said sin, they're covered until they do it again. Crock 'o crap. Exactly with which wool do they think they're covering the eyes of Jesus? And the same goes for the Sola Scriptura crowd who believes that a heartfelt "I'm sorry" is sufficient for total Absolution and Salvation.

Your OP question is spot on, and the disconnect you feel is a real response to the absurdity of the results of the Least Common Denominator effect of Sola Scriptura. That God's Law must be observed is non-negotiable. Anyone who willfully goes against such is no longer in Communion, and is in real danger of Perdition. But the Grace of God is such, that regardless of the degree or severity of the sin, it can be wiped clean. Yet it takes a complete and honest heart to enjoin God's Forgiveness. When I go to Confession and pour my heart out to the Priest, I KNOW I've been forgiven of those sins, as Jesus promised. Just as if I were to confess sins in a half-hearted manner with no real promise of not repeating them, the Priest may pick up on that and explore further. And if egregious enough, may withhold Absolution. Either way, I know the status of my Soul.

Those who anticipate complete vindication because of their version of "Lord, Lord" are in for a shock.
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Old 11-22-2019, 05:07 PM
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I agree but based on your post you do not understand the point of the discussion.

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PalmettoTree: "I would say, “doing good is Salvation by works not faith.”

It strikes me as a mistake that our Christian worship resolves almost totally around Christ as apposed to living according to God's Law_right and doing good."

If the above is reflective of this thread then I believe I know very well what the discussion is about and the point you're trying to make. That said ... I believe my responses have been on point.


I don't believe that we disagree that "doing good" is pleasing in the eyes of God. God is good and He points us in the direction of doing "good works" but if we're to fully follow the Old Covenant laws then we are required to stone Sabbath breakers. We're required to sacrifice lambs, bullocks, and goats. In fact, we're required to follow all 613 Old Testament laws to a "T." Just saying!


As I mentioned before, we're required to repent (overcome or cease) sinning. Christ and the Apostles made it very clear and differentiated between what they saw as "good" and what they saw as "evil." Paul was especially vociferous on this subject. So ... bottom line is that I believe we pretty much agree on most things but I'm careful when I point folks in the direction of the Old Covenant instead of the New one written in the blood of Christ.
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Old 11-22-2019, 05:59 PM
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I feel that while salvation itself comes through the messiah , following the Torah gives you a closer relationship with god as well as blessings while here on earth. To me there is more to religion than getting my ticket to heaven punched. It’s about making something of the blessings of life that god has given us. And of course blessings for my progeny also.

Christ's two, great commandments:


Love God with all thy heart, mind, and sole and love thy neighbor as thyself. Paul reminds us time and again that we fulfill the law when we show love, charity, and kindness to our neighbors. Those acts of kindness, generosity, selflessness, and pure love towards others (especially those in need) go a very long distance and, I believe, are the goals that Christ points us towards. JMO
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Old 11-22-2019, 09:43 PM
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An Atheist believes there was/is no Creator. Therefore, what he does in this life matters little except for man's law and his fear of it.

Most modern Christians and emphasized in modern Christian churches is as long as you believe in Christ's Salvation, it matters little what you do on earth.

They believe as long as you can say "forgive me" before you leave this earth all is OK. Even then the wrong done between the last "forgive me" is disposed of because of faith in Christ.

There are differences between God's Law for all mankind and God's instructions to the Jews. Those assuming everything God told the Jews to do is God's Law are misreading Hebrew Bible (OT) scripture. Those that believe OT scripture and what happen to people Jews and non-Jews alike and the reasons and consequences have no bearing on us both individually and as nations, are wrong!

The OT is all about how we must behave while on this earth, not the symbolic rituals and sacrifices, or we will fact consequences and judgement. There is more to Christ than "all is forgiven because of faith". Else as long as we can avoid man's law we can act as we please and it does not matter because we are Christians.

I do not believe that; I do not think.
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Old 11-22-2019, 10:19 PM
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What did Jesus say?
Love God
Love your neighbor,
on these hang all the law and the prophets.
This is not a side step to the law but an expansion of the law.
Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to give us guidance in God's will.
If you love God, you ask Him what His will is in a given situation?
Am I to be involved, and if so what is my part?
God is not going to ask one to do anything contrary to these two laws.
If you understand intercessory prayer, "praying for others by the leading of the Holy Spirit" . It is not based on what you know, but how God leads you.
The Law of the Father is just this.
What is God's agenda for me this day? Go to church or be on the street ministering to the needy? but most importantly doing the thing He asks.
Nobel things do not substitute for God's will.
Jesus said, 'Not every one that says to me Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of my Father......." Matthew 7;21,22,23, Nobel deeds done in my name don't substitute for obedience or even a relationship. Calling Jesus Lord when you do not obey Him is a lie.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:36 AM
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What did Jesus say?
Love God
Love your neighbor,
on these hang all the law and the prophets.
This is not a side step to the law but an expansion of the law.
More expansion? Jesus replaced the old covenant with the new.

God's 10 laws were perverted by man to be expanded to over 300. Jesus, our Liberating King freed us. Not only did he free us from the perversion but from our inherent inability to adhere to the 10 laws.

Love is merely the attitude and motivation to, not just comply with the law, but to cheerfully do the will of God. James says faith without works is dead: the internal work is for God (a heart transplant as Jeremiah says in 31:33); the external works is a measure of our obedience, our faith, our love of God and others.

15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

James 2:15-17 (NLT)

“The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.”
― Tacitus, The Annals of Imperial Rome
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:12 AM
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I think I have found my answer. Faith alone as preached on the modern Christian church is not enough. See: James 2:14-17; Romans 2:6-7; Revelations 2:23; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Matthew 5:16, 12:36-37; John 14:12 and Revelations 20:13, 22:12.

These scripture are seldom emphasized along with faith in Christ.

Man is judged by his deeds. His deeds according to God the Father's Law. God the Father is a good God. His Son forgives us when we are not but we are still judged by our goodness according to God the Father's Law.

How you reconcile this per how the Holy Spirit speaks to you is not for me to judge. It is for me to judge the lack of teaching all of the Holy Scripture by churches. It is my judgement they are failing and that is why they are getting smaller. That is why twisting scripture to secularism has not only not worked but is wrong. If you build a gymnasium to help children with nothing good to do that is good. If you do it just to attract talented basketball kids ... you be the judge. Filling a hall with young people to tell them they are forgiven by a tattooed youth minister singing secular songs without preaching their obligations and responsibilities to follow God's Law is not preaching God Word.

Are such people called to God or just the grandstanding vocation. That is not for me to judge on an individual basis. It sure causes me to wonder how God is judging us as a whole.

Good God following people are punished along with their bad nation. This is true in modern times see twentieth century Germany and Russia. What about 21st century USA?

I think the modern Christian church (all major denomination) are failing God.

I do not even know if it is a sin to think that way.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:43 AM
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I think I have found my answer. Faith alone as preached on the modern Christian church is not enough. See: James 2:14-17; Romans 2:6-7; Revelations 2:23; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Matthew 5:16, 12:36-37; John 14:12 and Revelations 20:13, 22:12.

These scripture are seldom emphasized along with faith in Christ.
So said numerous times in this thread and others. Not all denominations preach this concept. This is a fruit of the Reformation.

Quote:
Man is judged by his deeds. His deeds according to God the Father's Law. God the Father is a good God. His Son forgives us when we are not but we are still judged by our goodness according to God the Father's Law.
Yes. Those who truly want to please God have only one way to really do so. "Love your fellow man as you love me". With the parable of the rich young man who would be perfect, Jesus tells us the way to be so, and it has nothing to do with personal gain. The perfect man in Christ will give all, do all and accept all humility in the process of helping his fellow man. That is a benchmark that few of us can measure up to, but is still the ultimate goal.

Quote:
How you reconcile this per how the Holy Spirit speaks to you is not for me to judge. It is for me to judge the lack of teaching all of the Holy Scripture by churches. It is my judgement they are failing and that is why they are getting smaller. That is why twisting scripture to secularism has not only not worked but is wrong. If you build a gymnasium to help children with nothing good to do that is good. If you do it just to attract talented basketball kids ... you be the judge. Filling a hall with young people to tell them they are forgiven by a tattooed youth minister singing secular songs without preaching their obligations and responsibilities to follow God's Law is not preaching God Word.

Are such people called to God or just the grandstanding vocation. That is not for me to judge on an individual basis. It sure causes me to wonder how God is judging us as a whole.
Yes again. The thing about Christianity is it must be taught, preferably from parent to child. Your demeanor and sense of responsibility are formed very early, as is the sense of the Supernatural. Adults have a difficult time accepting things they cannot see nor verify.
When the Jim Bakkers and Joel Osteens can fill stadiums (and their pockets) with their charismatic voices, yet barely pay lip service to the life of Service to others that Jesus asked, we have definitely gone down the wrong road.

Quote:
Good God following people are punished along with their bad nation. This is true in modern times see twentieth century Germany and Russia. What about 21st century USA?
Look how long it's taken for us to go from a decent God fearing people to general Apostasy. From Sunday Blue Laws to 24/7 buy and sell. From a Gov't. which used to begin all sessions with a prayer for guidance, to denouncing and criminalizing disbelief in 57 genders? A whole 50 years?
Why should God continue to extend His protection over a people who clearly don't want it?

Quote:
I think the modern Christian church (all major denomination) are failing God.

I do not even know if it is a sin to think that way.
When our parents absolved themselves of the responsibility for our religious upbringing, expecting Sunday School to "handle that" in an hour a week, at the same time themselves teaching by their actions the unimportance of actually following the teachings of Christ, why should we expect better? Just like we've mostly abdicated responsibility for our kid's general education, expecting the School District to "handle that" (It's what we pay taxes for, right?), and now are shocked when they come home at 7 years old with a rainbow hat proclaiming they might be the opposite gender AND WE CAN'T LEGALLY SAY OTHERWISE?

It is never a sin to think and voice the Truth. Look how many time in Scripture we are told that to be His Follower will cause much pain. Estrangement from friends and even family. Vilification by the Authorities. Up to and including death.

All of this is no accident, and has been foretold by Scripture, Prophets and Seers to this day. Remember that Satan still has custody of the World and is doing as much damage to us as he can in the time he has left. His greatest trick has been to convince us that he doesn't exist. How better to do that than maximize our search for pleasure and minimize the aspect of humility and service to others?

Note to add, they are publically advertising a Satanic Mass to be held in Houston. Getting mainstream now. No more hiding in the shadows.

Lord have Mercy. Christ have Mercy. Lord have Mercy!
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
An Atheist believes there was/is no Creator. Therefore, what he does in this life matters little except for man's law and his fear of it.

Most modern Christians and emphasized in modern Christian churches is as long as you believe in Christ's Salvation, it matters little what you do on earth.

They believe as long as you can say "forgive me" before you leave this earth all is OK. Even then the wrong done between the last "forgive me" is disposed of because of faith in Christ.

There are differences between God's Law for all mankind and God's instructions to the Jews. Those assuming everything God told the Jews to do is God's Law are misreading Hebrew Bible (OT) scripture. Those that believe OT scripture and what happen to people Jews and non-Jews alike and the reasons and consequences have no bearing on us both individually and as nations, are wrong!

The OT is all about how we must behave while on this earth, not the symbolic rituals and sacrifices, or we will fact consequences and judgement. There is more to Christ than "all is forgiven because of faith". Else as long as we can avoid man's law we can act as we please and it does not matter because we are Christians.

I do not believe that; I do not think.
Do you believe that the thief who hung on a cross near Jesus Christ was saved based on his faith in Jesus Christ? He had lived a lawless life but Christ literally told him "... Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43) based purely on faith. I find that to be a very comforting thing. If I'm to keep the OT law perfectly then I'm completely doomed.

The fact is that none of us can "keep the 10 Commandments" perfectly. Christ reminds us that if we even look at a woman with lustful thoughts that we've committed adultery. So we commit sins in our heart and mind all the time. Does that mean that we can freely murder or steal or bear false witness or commit adultery or dishonor our parents? Nope! But even knowing that we shouldn't do those things doesn't mean that the best of us won't. We were born with sin nature and we will be sinners until we exhale our last breath.
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Old 11-23-2019, 11:33 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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Do you believe that the thief who hung on a cross near Jesus Christ was saved based on his faith in Jesus Christ? He had lived a lawless life but Christ literally told him "... Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43) based purely on faith. I find that to be a very comforting thing. If I'm to keep the OT law perfectly then I'm completely doomed.

The fact is that none of us can "keep the 10 Commandments" perfectly. Christ reminds us that if we even look at a woman with lustful thoughts that we've committed adultery. So we commit sins in our heart and mind all the time. Does that mean that we can freely murder or steal or bear false witness or commit adultery or dishonor our parents? Nope! But even knowing that we shouldn't do those things doesn't mean that the best of us won't. We were born with sin nature and we will be sinners until we exhale our last breath.
I believe that each of us is judged by our action. Our belief in Christ buys us forgiveness for past sins before acceptance but going forward we are judged. I believe those once offered Christ's forgiveness accepted or not are judged by theor deeds. Christ did not give us a blank check get out of Hell free card. (sorry about the mixed metaphor)

I believe that Churches that only preach forgiveness and not doing right according to God's word are preaching a false message.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:05 PM
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2 Peter 2:19–22 (ESV): They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

Because we would be counting the blood of Jesus that sanctified us as nothing and as such no longer have access to the sacrifice for sins. Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:26–31 (ESV): For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
"So how then can anyone be saved? For men it is impossible. But for God, all things are possible."

This is why we have the sacrament of reconciliation in the Catholic Faith. Once you deliberately sin (as all do), you can return to grace by confessing your sins and receiving the assurance of forgiveness from the Church, and grace to help you overcome and refrain from sinning again.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:29 PM
PalmettoTree PalmettoTree is offline
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"So how then can anyone be saved? For men it is impossible. But for God, all things are possible."

This is why we have the sacrament of reconciliation in the Catholic Faith. Once you deliberately sin (as all do), you can return to grace by confessing your sins and receiving the assurance of forgiveness from the Church, and grace to help you overcome and refrain from sinning again.
This means Catholics can do as the please lying like a politician, deceiving like a politician, stealing like a politician all week long. Just so long as you confess and receive forgiveness form some Catholic man called a Priest you are good to go to heaven. That might be how the Catholic Church stays rich but I do not think God the Father has that in mind.

This explains why Nancy Pelosi is the way she is.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:45 PM
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Cabinet Maker Cabinet Maker is offline
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This means Catholics can do as the please lying like a politician, deceiving like a politician, stealing like a politician all week long. Just so long as you confess and receive forgiveness form some Catholic man called a Priest you are good to go to heaven. That might be how the Catholic Church stays rich but I do not think God the Father has that in mind.

This explains why Nancy Pelosi is the way she is.

"Millions of people hate the Catholic Church for what they think it is, but only a hundred hate it for what it really is."

Venerable ABP Fulton J. Sheen

So which group are you in?
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