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Old 11-20-2019, 12:03 PM
Don H Don H is offline
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Yes they do, according to the constitution.
However, the left is, as with quit a few things, weaponizing the process.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45769.pdf
The U.S. Constitution establishes a two-step process for the House and Senate to remove federal officials—including the President, Vice President, judges, and other civil officers—for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” Under the Constitution, the House alone has the power to formally charge—that is, impeach—a federal official. (U.S. Const. art. 1, §2, cl. 5.)
Here is the key and what the left is weaponizing:
A House majority can accomplish this by adopting articles of impeachment, which are effectively written accusations (similar to an indictment in ordinary criminal proceedings).
Accusations based on perception and complete distain for the POTUS, officially known as TDS!!
It DOESN'T matter what ANYONE else says except Trump and Zelensky...everything else is subjective opinions.
Totally agree. Consider the process going on right now as a Grand Jury. The jury members are the committee members, half of which are starving for that "Ham Sandwich".
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LibShooter View Post
President Trump's (Acting) Director of the Office on Management and Budget (who is also President Trump's (acting) Chief of Staff) put a hold on the funds Congress approved to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia. From testimony we've heard over the last week, we know that President Trump intended to keep that aid on hold until the President of Ukraine went on TV to tell the world that his country was investigating Hunter Biden. The US Government was putting pressure on the Ukrainian Government regardless of whether their President says he felt it.

The funds were eventually released because the President got caught.



There is simply no evidence that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. It's a fantasy that President Trump apparently believes because, frankly, he wants to. There is plenty of evidence, however, that Russia meddled in the election. You can read all about that here: https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

There is also plenty of evidence that Vice President Biden's push to get the former Ukrainian prosecutor fired was part of the publicly stated policy in the best interest of the United States and Ukraine. You can read about that here:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/3785620002/

President Trump is going to be impeached because he abused his official powers, solicited a bribe and is refusing to obey legal subpoenas from Congressional Committees.
so you will defend the actions of AOC when she intentionally violated the law and informed illegal immigrants on how to avoid capture and deportation and then perpetuate the lies of the left. Man you need serious help. No wonder the leftist garbage has taken over our country.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:36 PM
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so you will defend the actions of AOC when she intentionally violated the law and informed illegal immigrants on how to avoid capture and deportation and then perpetuate the lies of the left. Man you need serious help. No wonder the leftist garbage has taken over our country.
If Representative Ocasio-Cortez broke federal law, the Department of Justice run by President Trump should do something about that.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:46 PM
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If Representative Ocasio-Cortez broke federal law, the Department of Justice run by President Trump should do something about that.
Way to side step the fact that you're in favor of the left actually breaking laws, but want to attack the President for MAYBE doing something improper...as he was DOING HIS JOB of making sure that US officials weren't doing unethical things and then bragging about them.

Way to show your true colors.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:50 PM
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Every person involved that testified says Trump explicitly ordered multiple times for the funds to be withheld until the Ukrainian president publicly announced they were looking into Biden, Trump political rival. The only people who have remotely contested this fact are also those unwilling to testify under oath.
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Old 11-20-2019, 01:56 PM
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Way to side step the fact that you're in favor of the left actually breaking laws...
I'm not in favor of anybody breaking any laws. Seriously, if AOC broke the law she needs to be held accountable. Who's job is that? William Barr's. He should look into that.

As for Vice President Biden... the evidence shows he did not break the law in dealing with that former Ukraine. However, if he did, the US Department of Justice should investigate. That's their job, too.

However, it's the House of Representative's job to investigate the President. They are doing a dang good job of it. One of the things we've learned recently is that President Trump was less interested in Ukraine investigating the Bidens than he was in having them ANNOUNCE they were investigating the Bidens. Had he really been interested in making sure that US officials weren't doing unethical things, he would have asked them to look into it quietly so as not to tip off the suspect. That was not the Presiednt's goal.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:04 PM
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Every person involved that testified says Trump explicitly ordered multiple times for the funds to be withheld until the Ukrainian president publicly announced they were looking into Biden, Trump political rival. The only people who have remotely contested this fact are also those unwilling to testify under oath.
according to the Interfax-Ukraine news agency it is Ukraine pressuring Trump to investigate Hunter Biden, Not the other way around. So me thinks that all of the people up on Capital Hill testifying is lying in order to get Trump impeached.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:08 PM
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Interesting that you believe 1 Ukrainian source and dismiss every single American person including decorated service members from both parties. It is almost as if you only want to believe that Trump would not use his power for immoral reasons, despite a lifetime of evidence of him doing just that.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:17 PM
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Interesting that you believe 1 Ukrainian source and dismiss every single American person including decorated service members from both parties. It is almost as if you only want to believe that Trump would not use his power for immoral reasons, despite a lifetime of evidence of him doing just that.
you mean the liberal socialist that have taken over the country? Those same Americans? and just because one claims to be a republican does not mean that they are, ever hear of the acronym RINO (republican in name only)? But if Ukraine is claiming that their government is pressuring the Trump administration to investigate then yes I believe it because their punishments from the government in Ukraine is much stricter than the ones in The United States if they speak against the government.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:58 PM
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You call them socialists just because you are a partisan Trump supporter. I'm a libertarian and oppose socialism as much as one can, but I am honest enough not to throw our service members under the bus and call them liars to defend him and willing to follow the evidence. It used to be conservatives used to oppose everything Trump stands for (paying prostitutes, quid pro quos with Ukraine, socialist trade deals and bailouts, mocking POWS, calling brave service members commies for standing up for America, taking private property to build a wall, etc). Now Trump fans are fine with all of that as long as he triggers dems. sickening.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:04 PM
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You call them socialists just because you are a partisan Trump supporter. I'm a libertarian and oppose socialism as much as one can, but I am honest enough not to throw our service members under the bus and call them liars to defend him and willing to follow the evidence. It used to be conservatives used to oppose everything Trump stands for (paying prostitutes, quid pro quos with Ukraine, socialist trade deals and bailouts, mocking POWS, calling brave service members commies for standing up for America, taking private property to build a wall, etc). Now Trump fans are fine with all of that as long as he triggers dems. sickening.
go ahead and believe what you want to, I don't care if you desire to be a sheep. And I suppose that you believed he was guilty of the Russian Hoax as well? Just because some Americans got on the stand and lied under oath?
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:05 PM
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Every person involved that testified says Trump explicitly ordered multiple times for the funds to be withheld until the Ukrainian president publicly announced they were looking into Biden, Trump political rival. The only people who have remotely contested this fact are also those unwilling to testify under oath.
And you've noticed too that the Democrats are only interested in witnesses who support their platform and have no interest in getting to the truth. Have you also considered that under different circumstances / times Lt.Col. Vindman would be up on charges under the UCMJ?

The Deep State is doing everything it can to get the President. They are not about to have their dirty deeds exposed, especially the ones that transpired under the previous Administration.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:10 PM
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I've not noticed that. I noticed they subpoenaed everyone involved, that everyone that was willing to testify under oath stated what Trump did was unethical or concerning and that the GOP had the same privileges to question them or anyone else. That's not being selective. On the other hand, none of those defending Trump are willing to testify under oath. Seems to me the GOP isn't interested in the truth.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:15 PM
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And you've noticed too that the Democrats are only interested in witnesses who support their platform and have no interest in getting to the truth. Have you also considered that under different circumstances / times Lt.Col. Vindman would be up on charges under the UCMJ?

The Deep State is doing everything it can to get the President. They are not about to have their dirty deeds exposed, especially the ones that transpired under the previous Administration.
no, they haven't noticed because their TDS has ravaged their entire thought process. I say if Trump is guilty then bring formal charges, otherwise shut this dog and pony show down and do the damn job they were hired to do. Instead of sitting on Capitol Hill for 4 years and committing fraud after fraud against the people of this country and a duly elected president that stands in the way of their socialist dreams.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:35 PM
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Socialist?

I guess you oppose the land confiscation for the wall because it violates private property rights? No?

You oppose the trade wars with tariffs and bailouts of the centrally planned economy that violate the free market? No?

I think you're the socialist.
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:35 PM
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And you've noticed too that the Democrats are only interested in witnesses who support their platform and have no interest in getting to the truth.
At least half a dozen members of the Trump Administration have been "invited" to testify by way of Congressional subpoena. Maybe you've noticed they have refused to appear. Even President Trump has been invited. All they have to do to support President Trump's platform is to show up and be sworn in.

Quote:
Have you also considered that under different circumstances / times Lt.Col. Vindman would be up on charges under the UCMJ?
What would Lt. Col Vindman be charged with?
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:51 PM
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Socialist?

I guess you oppose the land confiscation for the wall because it violates private property rights? No?

You oppose the trade wars with tariffs and bailouts of the centrally planned economy that violate the free market? No?

I think you're the socialist.
and I suppose you are for health care for all, open borders, universal income, and globalization as well as a 70% to 90% income tax?
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:45 PM
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At least half a dozen members of the Trump Administration have been "invited" to testify by way of Congressional subpoena. Maybe you've noticed they have refused to appear. Even President Trump has been invited. All they have to do to support President Trump's platform is to show up and be sworn in.
You do understand that none of them are afforded legal council right? You do understand that the Republicans doing the questioning are not afforded legal council right? You do understand that the Republicans are not afforded legal council to ask direct questions to witnesses right? The Democrats have all of that. Now put yourself in their shoes and what would you do? Before you answer that, I'm sure if you were suspected of a crime make a full statement to the police without legal advice. These proceedings are a sham. The rules are a sham. They are not interested in the truth their entire goal is to remove President Trump whether he is guilty or not and that should sicken each and every American. It obviously does not sicken you.
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by esheldon View Post
Yes they do, according to the constitution.
However, the left is, as with quit a few things, weaponizing the process.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45769.pdf
The U.S. Constitution establishes a two-step process for the House and Senate to remove federal officials—including the President, Vice President, judges, and other civil officers—for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” Under the Constitution, the House alone has the power to formally charge—that is, impeach—a federal official. (U.S. Const. art. 1, §2, cl. 5.)
Here is the key and what the left is weaponizing:
A House majority can accomplish this by adopting articles of impeachment, which are effectively written accusations (similar to an indictment in ordinary criminal proceedings).
Accusations based on perception and complete distain for the POTUS, officially known as TDS!!
It DOESN'T matter what ANYONE else says except Trump and Zelensky...everything else is subjective opinions.
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Originally Posted by Don H View Post
Totally agree. Consider the process going on right now as a Grand Jury. The jury members are the committee members, half of which are starving for that "Ham Sandwich".
And here is the kicker, according to that link I provided, the Intelligence Committee is not the committee responsible for the impeachment investigation, hearings, and markup of articles of impeachment.
The House impeachment process generally proceeds in three phases: (1)initiation of the impeachment process; (2) Judiciary Committee investigation, hearings, and markup of articles of impeachment; and (3) full House consideration of the articles of impeachment.
The left is making things up as they go.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:07 PM
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And here is the kicker, according to that link I provided, the Intelligence Committee is not the committee responsible for the impeachment investigation, hearings, and markup of articles of impeachment.
The House impeachment process generally proceeds in three phases: (1)initiation of the impeachment process; (2) Judiciary Committee investigation, hearings, and markup of articles of impeachment; and (3) full House consideration of the articles of impeachment.
The left is making things up as they go.
Yup, but Nadler is the chair of the Judicial Committee and they were afraid he would fumble it. Not like he could be any worse than Schiff, but....

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