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Old 06-03-2019, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Protestants, Orthodox and RCC ignoring the believing Jews that were edged out leaving behind the 4th commandment and the feasts of God.
Contrary to the insistence of Judaizers like you, we do not have to live like Jews and adopt Jewish customs in order to be Christians. Jews who believed in Christ weren't left behind, but Judaizers were prevented from forcing heresies on The Church.

The Old Testament is partial in that it prepares for the time of Christ, the Messiah, who fulfills its message and history. The New Testament is prefigured in the Old, and the Old Testament is fulfilled in the New.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:41 PM
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It's not about judaisers at all it's about a church fraught with the errors and traditions taught and handed down from anti-semitic early church fathers. A church that replaced the freedom experienced in home churches with the teaching that scripture could only really be understood properly in the light of the teachings and traditions of the church fathers and so began the control of the flock.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:41 PM
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The papacy and the entirety of the catholic church are just terrible. I will admit that they did some good things, but ultimately too much of the doctrine is wrong. I hope all you catholics out there get saved and get to go upstairs.

(This is not me being sarcastic, i genuily hope so.)
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
It's not about judaisers at all it's about a church fraught with the errors and traditions taught and handed down from anti-semitic early church fathers. A church that replaced the freedom experienced in home churches with the teaching that scripture could only really be understood properly in the light of the teachings and traditions of the church fathers and so began the control of the flock.
You know the term "anti-semitic" is fairly new right? I might not thinknthe catholic faith is a very good one, but they are head and shoulders above the jewish faith. The papists at least have a chance, they believe in Jesus!
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
It's not about judaisers at all it's about a church fraught with the errors and traditions taught and handed down from anti-semitic early church fathers. A church that replaced the freedom experienced in home churches with the teaching that scripture could only really be understood properly in the light of the teachings and traditions of the church fathers and so began the control of the flock.
1. Significant numbers of the first Christians were converted Jews, not "anti-semites".
2. The concept of home churches is a modern invention. Early Christians gathered together to worship in the catacombs which they used as their first churches and church cemetaries:

https://www.5minutesinchurchhistory.com/the-catacombs/

3. Even if you reject that archeological evidence, why does a home church need a bishop as scripture states?

You hold to many of the same misconceptions about church history that I did before I started researching it from primary sources.
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Contrary to the insistence of Judaizers like you, we do not have to live like Jews and adopt Jewish customs in order to be Christians. Jews who believed in Christ weren't left behind, but Judaizers were prevented from forcing heresies on The Church.

The Old Testament is partial in that it prepares for the time of Christ, the Messiah, who fulfills its message and history. The New Testament is prefigured in the Old, and the Old Testament is fulfilled in the New.
Who Were The Judaizers?

"More recently, Robert Jewett argued that the Jewish opponents of Paul in Galatia were from the growing Zealot movement of Palestine [1]. The Zealot movement was a rather radical anti-Rome movement that sought strict obedience to the Law for all Jews. Any Jews that were “Gentile-sympathizers” were the enemy. These teachers sought to supplement Paul’s teaching, according to Jewett, by teaching a form of perfectionism to counter the libertine paganism from which they were converted.

It is perhaps the statement made by Paul in Galatians 6:12-13 that gives us an insight into who the false teachers may have been. They are people that think that by compelling Gentiles to be circumcised they might avoid persecution for the cross of Christ. Likely Jewett’s theory has some merit; some Jewish Christians thought that by making Gentile Christians conform to the basics of the Law they might avoid persecution by the growing radical elements of Judaism.

Galatians 6:12-13 It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh that try to compel you to be circumcised—only that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. Even the circumcised do not themselves obey the law, but they want you to be circumcised so that they may boast about your flesh.

Who were the Judaizers, then? Jewish Christians, likely Pharisees according to Acts 15, who, with good intentions, sought to supplement Paul’s gospel by requiring that the basics of the Law be followed: circumcision and food laws. Perhaps the real issue at stake here is the status of the Gentiles within the people of God. Could an uncircumcised Gentile be part of God’s people along with Israel? Could a person be faithful to God and not keep the key elements of the covenant?

Paul reversed this argument in Galatians: can a Gentile be a member of the people of God and allow himself to be circumcised? Can a Gentile be “free in Christ” and keep the Jewish laws concerning food, festivals, etc.? The answer in Galatians is a resounding no."

I find it interesting that some, when they find certain aspects of modern Christianity to be lacking or shallow, attempt to dig into Jewish history and graft elements of it onto Christianity rather than exploring the origins of their own faith.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Yes. You are arguing Law when we're talking about Grace.
No, we're not talking about the difference between law and grace in discussions with you.

We're talking about the difference between law and license.

Your unitarian god is one of your own creation.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:11 AM
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I have always believed if there was some global force (and there is) that would put out "wanted posters" on each one of us for committing the crime of Christianity, we would band together like never before in history. Oddly we would discover the same unity Christ called us to. Maybe even discover that unity doesn't necessarily have to mean total agreement.
There was such a global force in the time of the first century church. It was called the Roman Empire. It did put "wanted posters" out for Christians. And even that didn't stop Paul from calling out Peter when critical truths were at stake:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

And the other Jews dissembled [bore false witness] likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

(Galatians 2:11-14, KJV)

This scripture strikes a pretty solid blow not only against false ecumenism, but the unquestioned authority of Peter as Pope.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by OhioMan
So very well said!
...We are talking about a son of a poor carpenter and twelve men in back-water Judea that changed the world and turned it on it's head in a few short years. ...
Quote:
=Batko10;19563182]

We are talking about G-d incarnate and His 12 handpicked Apostles.

Am I splitting hairs? It would seem that the above post denies the divinity of Christ, or does it just disrespect and denigrate Him?
I have no idea how you have arrived at the conclusions you have over what I said. Denying the divinity of Christ, God incarnate???? What???

Christ was the son of a poor carpenter, He was/is God with us. Christ changed the world.

I have no problem or ax to grind over your choices, doctrine of adherence to the Eastern Russian Orthodox beliefs etc.

My point was about unity under persecution. I'm not requiring you to agree or going into a level #5 panty-wad if you don't.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
No, we're not talking about the difference between law and grace in discussions with you.
Indeed! You are SHOWING the difference between law and grace in discussions with me.

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Your unitarian god is one of your own creation.
We have doctrinal differences. G-e-t O-v-e-r I-t .........
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
There was such a global force in the time of the first century church. It was called the Roman Empire. It did put "wanted posters" out for Christians. And even that didn't stop Paul from calling out Peter when critical truths were at stake:

"But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision ...

This scripture strikes a pretty solid blow not only against false ecumenism, but the unquestioned authority of Peter as Pope.
This example, this verse supports ecumenism while undermining the authority of Peter.
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Old 06-04-2019, 07:50 AM
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I have no idea how you have arrived at the conclusions you have over what I said. Denying the divinity of Christ....
My point was about unity under persecution. I'm not requiring you to agree or going into a level #5 panty-wad if you don't.
Agh! There is the rub. He is requiring you to agree - with how he looks at it or - he'll go into a level #5 panty-wad.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:43 AM
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I have no idea how you have arrived at the conclusions you have over what I said. Denying the divinity of Christ, God incarnate???? What???.
Based on the company that you keep and whose arguments you support, one would naturally think that you are denying the divinity of Jesus when reading that statement in your post.

Whether justified or not, we are judged by the company we keep. It may not be fair to project Peter Energy's rejection of Christ's divinity on you. However, since you support PE in this forum it would be a natural mistake. I've never heard you correct him regarding his belief that Jesus was just a mortal man equal to Aristotle.
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:57 AM
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Where Did The Pope Come From?

This time from Argentina.
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:14 AM
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You know the term "anti-semitic" is fairly new right? I might not thinknthe catholic faith is a very good one, but they are head and shoulders above the jewish faith. The papists at least have a chance, they believe in Jesus!
Have you heard of Messianic Jews? It was believing Jews that were edged out of the church. However we will be reunited with them when Y'shua returns.
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Old 06-04-2019, 11:50 AM
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Default Collateral damage in goal of shunning beliefs you don't share ...

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Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Based on the company that you keep and whose arguments you support, one would naturally think that you are denying the divinity of Jesus when reading that statement in your post.
TRANSLATION: I'm going to punish/condemn you for making posts I don't like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batko10 View Post
Whether justified or not, we are judged by the company we keep. It may not be fair to project Peter Energy's rejection of Christ's divinity on you. However, since you support PE in this forum it would be a natural mistake. I've never heard you correct him regarding his belief that Jesus was just a mortal man equal to Aristotle.
TRANSLATION: I was wrong but you should still condemn others for believing in things I do not believe in.
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:26 PM
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=Batko10;19564366]Based on the company that you keep and whose arguments you support, one would naturally think that you are denying the divinity of Jesus when reading that statement in your post.
So in other words, you made an allegation that is based on a lie.


Quote:
Whether justified or not, we are judged by the company we keep.
Judged by who?

Jesus was a friend of sinners. He often drew the ire of the scribes and Pharisees for eating with sinners (Luke 15:2). Jesus clearly recognized that one of the insults hurled against him was that he was a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of tax collectors and sinners! (Luke 7:34).

Quote:
It may not be fair to project Peter Energy's rejection of Christ's divinity on you.
Really?

Quote:
However, since you support PE in this forum it would be a natural mistake. I've never heard you correct him regarding his belief that Jesus was just a mortal man equal to Aristotle.
I support everyone who wants to talk about God. I feel honored to hear their thoughts, their ideas even when they aren't a carbon copy of myself.

Everyone is in a different place spiritually and with their walk with Christ. I do not see myself as the "High Water Mark" of what a believer and follower of Christ should be.

I am not the changer of hearts, I am not the Holy Spirit. (John 6:44) isn't just a suggestion, it's His word and will and truth.

My instructions are found in places like (John 3:3; (John 3:7); (1 Peter) 1:23) and (Ephesians 2:8); (James 1:27)
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Old 06-04-2019, 08:36 PM
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Have you heard of Messianic Jews? It was believing Jews that were edged out of the church. However we will be reunited with them when Y'shua returns.
Ok, serious question, if they believe on Christ why not just become christians?

I guess my question is whats the difference? Do they practice all the old laws but ignore the ones the NT set? I really dont know.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:31 PM
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The papacy and the entirety of the catholic church are just terrible. I will admit that they did some good things, but ultimately too much of the doctrine is wrong. I hope all you catholics out there get saved and get to go upstairs.

(This is not me being sarcastic, i genuily hope so.)
What if I was a Baptist and I converted to Roman Catholicism.

They told me that I was saved when I said my sinners prayer.

I should still be good right?
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:30 PM
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Ok, serious question, if they believe on Christ why not just become christians?

I guess my question is whats the difference? Do they practice all the old laws but ignore the ones the NT set? I really dont know.
A Messianic Jew is simply a Jew who accepts Y'shua as his Messiah. Y'shua did not establish a new religion as the church fathers assume. The term Christian was not used by the early church and was probably a derogatory term as applied in the NT.

The church of Acts actually had to decide how to deal with gentiles joining the movement. In the end times gentiles and believing Jews become the one new man of Ephesians. It is a fascinating study, look into the NT from a Jewish perspective.

Messianic Jews of today are literally recreating the church of the book of Acts, the church before Greco-Roman influenced change.
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