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View Poll Results: CCW: Semi auto? Or Revolver?
Give me the semi-automatic. 82 68.33%
I'll take the wheelgun. 38 31.67%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-19-2018, 08:10 AM
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Well, cheap Uncle Mike's type fabric holsters can, as can IWB leather. Both can have an edge pushed in that can catch a trigger when you're holstering. And the Serpa's with their retention release by trigger finger... who thought that was a good idea?
So holsters can create ND's, but revolvers have triggers too... so it's not impossible for them to be ND'ed.

Besides, if you're so careless that you choose a revolver over a semi due to ND risk, I'd wager you're going to be useless with that revolver because you're not training enough. Simple means nothing. Hammers are simple, but you still need to know how to use one in order to not hurt yourself, same thing with knives.

If you can't figure out a semi auto pistol, smart phones and ATM's must seem like magic to you...
A fellow officer at my former department managed to shoot himself in the ass/leg while holstering a revolver. It is not uncommon.
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:55 AM
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Semi

Round capacity, trigger pull weight and speed of reload outweigh any reliability advantages that the revolver MIGHT have.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:54 PM
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Odds and compromises.

There is no rational debate that a modern, reliable, high capacity semi auto, is potentially more effective overall than a revolver when it comes to a fighting handgun.

But someone carrying a 5 shot .38 revolver that they're competent with, is infinitely ahead of being unarmed, and will likely be well served in 90%++ of self defense situations.

My carry gun varies between a full size .45 and 9, pocket .45 and 9, and occasionally a 2" .38 or 4" .44, depending on perceived need, and more often personal whim. I also usually have a tiny auto in my pocket as a bug. Out of police work I've needed a gun a couple of times, and what I had on me sufficed, but I know that the odds could work against my choice on any given day. I'm OK with that. Most of us make such compromises every day.


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Old 03-20-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
A fellow officer at my former department managed to shoot himself in the ass/leg while holstering a revolver. It is not uncommon.
Oh we had lots of them, range benches, station walls, lockers, car trunks and interiors.....
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:55 PM
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Semi auto for me. Would rather have the extra rounds.

Although I did notice a few people qualifying with revolvers when I got my permit.

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Old 03-20-2018, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Top considerations: I hold a different view about most of these characteristics.

Reliability. Effective tie. Assuming we are only considering high quality weapons, I agree. Modern semi-autos are just as reliable as revolvers. I've had both fail, about same regularity. Clearing failures is probably hard to gauge depending on the type of failure. The worst catastrophic failures can disable both. Garden variety failures are unlikely with premium SD ammo, so of minimal concern, to none.

Accuracy. Tie. Full sized revolvers are about twice as accurate as full sized semi autos. I have detailed notes on this, twice as accurate. Compact and pocket sized revolvers are three times as accurate as pocket sized semi autos.

Capacity. Easily semi-autos. Agree. But frankly it does not matter as much as many here would suggest. Same size gun, can get around twice as much capacity in practically equivalent chamberings. (.38, .357, 9mm, .40). This really is exaggerated after 2-4 reloads. Three full loads of a revolver is ~18 rounds. That's 1 magazine in a 9mm. Or 3 full loads in a .40 is around ~45 rounds. 45 is a lot bigger than 18.

Speed. Semi-auto for me (I'm not Miculek). Semi autos may be faster, but that's not the same as shooting accurately. The idea is to hit something from time, to time.Hammer guns are nearly the same, but the semi-offers a recoil spring. Striker seems faster.

Speed of reload. Agree. Semi-auto. (Perhaps you can achieve a tie with significant practice with a revolver but you're still behind the curve on capacity, so it takes basically 2 revolver reloads to match a semi-auto reload - to to be fair your revolver reloads need to be twice as fast as a semi-auto and that's a feat)

Ergos. Ergos are not even close LC. Revolvers are much easier to draw and shoot accurately.Semi is flatter and ergos are just better for me. In the same sized gun, the semi fits my hand better, and carries concealed better. Revolvers are thick at the cylinder, and the "banana" shaped handle isn't as good for me.

Weight. Semi auto pistols are lighter even when they are steel framed, or alloy framed. But while light is easy to carry, it makes the gun harder to shoot.Polymer semi-auto wins. About a 1/3rd lighter.

Recoil. Dont argue physics with an engineer. The only way to reduce recoil energy is to increase weight. Since you seem to prefer the ease of carrying polymer semi, you just have to live with the harsh recoil.The design of the semi with the recoil spring allows for the physics to reduce the recoil. Semi is less punishing recoil wise based on the recoil spring. Revolvers rely on weight and upward recoil.

Ease of cleaning. I don't have an issue with either. I don't seed an advantage.Semi-auto. Take down takes max 15 seconds. Full field strip and clean maybe 3-5 minutes for a very good cleaning. Carbon is contained to the chamber and barrel mostly. Compared to a revolver, where carbon gets on many surfaces out the front and back of the casing, and in the forcing cone, etc., and you have all 5-7 cylinders and the barrel. If you don't get the carbon off the front of the cylinder it will never come off. Quick clean or deep clean, the semi-wins.

Top-end power. Revolvers are not only made in much more powerful chamberings, they are commonly made in magnums. The 44 mag is roughly four times as powerful as the 9mm.Tie, perhaps an edge to .357 revolver, but it can be effectively and practically matched by +P semi-auto ammo or .357 sig loads. It's an effective tie, maybe a marginal edge to the revolver.

About the only place I'd carry a revolver is a full power revolver in back country. Then, maybe.

I still love the beauty of the wheelgun and have many. Used to carry a Ruger SP101. But the 5 rounds is just not enough. In a similar 1" single stack 9mm Walther, I can get 8 rnds of 9mm. And faster reloads. Just as reliable and accurate.
Honestly, I think you need to spend some quality time shooting a large magnum revolver at reactive targets. Making a gallon jug of water explode at 25 yds is fun. Making it explode at 200 yds is an absolute blast. Yes, that's the power and accuracy available with a good revolver.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForgedInTheFlame View Post
If you inspect a holster and/ or pocket before using it to carry a firearm and a foreign object still persists that can catch the trigger, this is a user error imo.

Nothing should be in the way of your draw. What kind of holster has that kind of liability?

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All ND's are. Mine was (didn't visually inspect).

BUT... gear can create more opportunity for an ND. I always use kydex now, that's thick enough to maintain shape even IWB. Basically I want a plastic hole that is perfectly shaped for my pistol.

I routinely reholster without looking, I've got the muscle memory down and trust my gear. Could something happen? I guess, but it won't be because the edge of my holster catches the trigger on holstering.
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Old 03-20-2018, 07:45 PM
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Honestly, I think you need to spend some quality time shooting a large magnum revolver at reactive targets. Making a gallon jug of water explode at 25 yds is fun. Making it explode at 200 yds is an absolute blast. Yes, that's the power and accuracy available with a good revolver.
Well, I'm no stranger to accurate revolvers, I own quite a few. Here's a couple of my most accurate ones.



Buuuut... as far as some of your comments in red on the other post, I guess it depends on exactly what your parameters are. The thread is about CCW guns, so I think most would be thinking what, 25 yards? Let's call it 50 for the sake of argument.

Quote:
Full sized revolvers are about twice as accurate as full sized semi autos. I have detailed notes on this, twice as accurate. Compact and pocket sized revolvers are three times as accurate as pocket sized semi autos.
If you'd like to bring your full size revolvers by and do a little shooting, I'll pull out one of my favorite 1911's, a Sig 220, my Smith 52, or whatever I fancy that day. As far as pocket size, bring your favorite snubbie, and I'll shoot something like my Kahr .45. I think you're going to have a difficult time showing me twice or thrice as accurate shooting at 50 yards, and I'm definitely not in my prime.

Quote:
Semi auto pistols are lighter even when they are steel framed, or alloy framed. But while light is easy to carry, it makes the gun harder to shoot.

Recoil. Dont argue physics with an engineer.
The only way to reduce recoil energy is to increase weight. Since you seem to prefer the ease of carrying polymer semi, you just have to live with the harsh recoil.
Well, I'm not an engineer. I don't even own a striped hat. But my semi autos reduce perceived recoil for me in their self loading function. Similar weight revolvers are harder to return to point of aim after recoil than autos for me, and apparently a whole bunch of bullseye shooters as well. As far as polymer, apparently many of us seem to think it can actually soak up recoil a little as well.

Yes, a 40 oz revolver kicks less than a 20 oz auto firing a similar power cartridge. But that's not zacly apples to apples either. Many of us accept the weight trade off. And a service size polymer 9 or .45 doesn't exactly kick harshly. A pocket 9 doesn't kick any worse than a lightweight snubbie. Probably about the same as a steel snubbie.

Quote:
Semi autos may be faster, but that's not the same as shooting accurately. The idea is to hit something from time, to time
Well, I think that one might be a draw. I can put 5 or six rounds on target in about equal time with service autos and revolvers. Maybe a tiny bit faster with the revolver, owing to many, many thousands of rounds fired in practice and competition, but the same for all practical purposes.

It's when it gets up to 9 or 10 rounds, that it gets a little more difficult with the revolver.....

If the goal is blowing up water jugs at 200, no doubt a magnum revolver wins for retained power. But make no mistake, I'll be putting holes in that same jug at 200 with a service auto, just not as spectacular results. I've won a lot of lunches and beer from guys that thought I couldn't.....

I carry a large powerful revolver sometimes, because like you, it's an appropriate tool for me sometimes. But for general fighting with people, I'll mostly choose a semi auto.


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Old 03-20-2018, 10:59 PM
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Old 03-21-2018, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
Honestly, I think you need to spend some quality time shooting a large magnum revolver at reactive targets. Making a gallon jug of water explode at 25 yds is fun. Making it explode at 200 yds is an absolute blast. Yes, that's the power and accuracy available with a good revolver.
I don't discount your points, but I'm not convinced by them and disagree.

What is "twice as accurate?" What does that even mean. Your 15 yard shot will be 1" rather than 2" off point of aim? In the real world that will make zero difference. A 1" miss aimed center mass is still lethal. Any standard SD ranges. I'll put every round where it counts.

Perhaps if you are taking slow aim and cutting a playing card in half, it may matter. But when you're dumping rounds on target, for most shooters the semi will be faster and more accurate and more lethal. 10 rounds in the biscuit is better than 6.

As for the other points, I disagree as well for the reasons I've stated. I require a full sized revolver to get a 4 finger grip. I can get that 4 finger grip on a compact semi-auto. That is more control. Add in the recoil spring, better yet for the semi.

I think you discount capacity and speed of reloads. One might feel comforted by a 6 round capacity. But what if there are 4 armed assailants? Suddenly you have a much bigger problem. If I've got 14 rounds on tap, I can put 3 in each with 2 to spare. If you have 6 rounds, you can put 1 in each with two follow ups. BIG difference. Could mean life or death. And modern assaults seem to be trending with larger gangs of assailants. Just watched a video yesterday with 5 or 6 armed men (with handguns) robbing a convenience store and getting into a shootout with a cop who wandered in.

We simply disagree with ergos. My hand just melts into CZs, Sigs, XDs, Glocks, Walthers, etc. Ergos are just fantastic, albeit a little different. Full wrap around the grip with off hand, thumbs forward on the frame. Fantastic control and ergos.

Conversely, the banana grip of a revolver, with the squished area for the off hand, and the smallish trigger well. They are sexy, but nowhere near as ergonomic. Factor in a reload as part of the functional ergonomics, and for me there's no contest that semi autos are easily superior.

And as far as powerful loads, we aren't talking full power loads here like the .44 magnum, .50 Action Express, .500 magnum, .454 Casul. Nobody (or very very few people) carries these for normal self defense use as is the implied topic here. We're talking about mainstream calibers you'd find in carry guns. In the standard common SD carry calibers, there's minimal practical difference in the main ones. Sure, a little more energy in some, penetration in others, and wound cavities in some. But the differences won't be earth shattering.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:25 AM
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everyone agrees a semi auto is almost always better than a revolver - a few very rare exception

but you're a more or less free can carry what ya want
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:40 AM
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How do you AD a revolver?

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Here's one way...


To answer the OP's question, I generally carry semi-auto's now. Either a Glock 43 or a Glock 17, depending on where I'm going and concealment options. I like that both function exactly the same so no matter which firearm I am carrying I don't have to worry about forgetting something important like taking the safety off on the draw, or forgetting to put it back on when holstering.

Quality holsters are key to carrying safely. Those stupid floppy nylon holsters you buy at Turners for $10 are a recipe for disaster in my book.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:55 AM
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I think really, the only basic downfalls for the revolvers are, capacity, and when they do happen, stoppages.

Theres no getting around the capacity.

Stoppages with the revolers, tend to be a major problem in the moment, and youre basically done right then when they do.


Ergos are probably more of a personal thing and what gun you have and how you shoot. I cant get a full grip on my Glock 26s, which are basically comparable size wise, to my J frames, and I get the same grip on them, I do on my 26's.

With my 2-2.5" K and L frame revolvers, I do get a full grip.

I also shoot my revolvers with the same basic thumbs forward grip I do with my autos. Still have my left thumb too!


Reloads with either are what you put into them with practice. Revolver reloads dont have to be slow, and really arent all that slow if your practiced, but the downside to them is always going to be the frequency issue.


For pure target type accuracy standpoint, Ive always done better with my revolvers. When I shoot them a little more realistically, they really arent all that much different from the autos.

Im pretty sure I can empty 6 rounds out of my 4" K frame 38's and 357s faster than I can 6 rounds out of my comparable autos. Its close, but I do believe the autos are just a tad slower.


While I normally carry a full sized auto, and have for a long time, and plan on continuing to do so, I have carried 2-4" revolvers of all sizes a good bit, and really cant say I ever saw a difference in speed and/or ease of getting one or the other into action from a proper holster made for the guns.

Once the gun is out, its all about what time and effort you have put into them as to your results.
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:09 AM
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Jerry Miculek pocket carries a J Frame
He may know a thing or two
So, I spend hours thinking, who knows more, the internet numb-nut or Jerry???
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:36 AM
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Jerry Miculek pocket carries a J Frame
He may know a thing or two
So, I spend hours thinking, who knows more, the internet numb-nut or Jerry???
He definitely knows a lot. The guy is amazing. But simplifying it to either a fantastic competitive shooter or an internet numb-nut is kind of a mistake in my book. There are many people out there with real-world experience using and carrying firearms in high threat environments. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge of him, Jerry Miculek has never fired a shot in anger. That doesn't make his opinion or options invalid of course, I certainly wouldn't want to go up against him in a gunfight. But just because Jerry does something does not mean it is good for everyone.
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Old 03-21-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jchavasu View Post
Here's one way...


To answer the OP's question, I generally carry semi-auto's now. Either a Glock 43 or a Glock 17, depending on where I'm going and concealment options. I like that both function exactly the same so no matter which firearm I am carrying I don't have to worry about forgetting something important like taking the safety off on the draw, or forgetting to put it back on when holstering.

Quality holsters are key to carrying safely. Those stupid floppy nylon holsters you buy at Turners for $10 are a recipe for disaster in my book.
I asked about an accidental discharge and you post a video about negligent discharges? Lol.

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Old 03-21-2018, 03:30 PM
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I asked about an accidental discharge and you post a video about negligent discharges? Lol.

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Ok, I apologize I did not realize you were referring specifically to a mechanical failure. If you meant mechanical failure then being more specific would help. I know there is a big push to say "negligent" not "accidental", but the bottom line is what happened in the video was "accidental" and "negligent". He did not intend to discharge the firearm thus it was an "accident", but he was absolutely "negligent". Despite attempts to rewrite the definition of words, accidental only means "not intentional", it does not mean "not negligent".
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Old 03-21-2018, 03:44 PM
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Ok, I apologize I did not realize you were referring specifically to a mechanical failure. If you meant mechanical failure then being more specific would help. I know there is a big push to say "negligent" not "accidental", but the bottom line is what happened in the video was "accidental" and "negligent". He did not intend to discharge the firearm thus it was an "accident", but he was absolutely "negligent". Accident does not mean not negligent despite people deciding to change the definition of words. Accidental only means "not intentional", it does not mean "not negligent".
I agree with what you say here.

A ND is an AD but an AD isn't necessarily a ND.

A ND is always the fault of the operator. Period.

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Old 03-21-2018, 03:51 PM
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I agree with what you say here.

A ND is an AD but an AD isn't necessarily a ND.

A ND is always the fault of the operator. Period.

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Well said!
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