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Old 06-14-2019, 08:02 AM
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I would agree. She is indeed blessed but I think she would insist our attention to be God and Christ

I be like "Our Father which art in heaven...."
Where is the disconnect with God while praying the Rosary?
IN THE NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

I BELIEVE IN GOD, the Father almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell. The third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father almighty. He shall come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

OUR FATHER, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

HAIL MARY, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

GLORY BE to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

O MY JESUS, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell; lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Amen.

HAIL HOLY QUEEN, mother of mercy; our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us. And after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.

O GOD, WHOSE only-begotten Son by His life, death and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life; grant, we beseech Thee, that by meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:34 AM
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Where is the disconnect with God while praying the Rosary?
IN THE NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

I BELIEVE IN GOD, the Father almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell. The third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father almighty. He shall come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

OUR FATHER, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

HAIL MARY, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

GLORY BE to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

O MY JESUS, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell; lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Amen.

HAIL HOLY QUEEN, mother of mercy; our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn, then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us. And after this, our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.

O GOD, WHOSE only-begotten Son by His life, death and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life; grant, we beseech Thee, that by meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.
Reading that make me think of my dad and mom standing right there in front of me. And then looking at my mom (with my dad RIGHT there) and asking her if dad could help me You know how she would respond, why are you asking me, your dad is right there.

Not to mention, she didn't remain a virgin her entire life, so why call her that...never understood that.

NOWHERE in scripture are we told to pray to anyone but GOD. Even Y'shua never stated that we are pray to Him, only to "ask in His Name".

Y'ashua SAID...

Matthew 6:5 “When you pray, don’t be like the hypocrites, who love to pray standing in the synagogues and on street corners, so that people can see them. Yes! I tell you, they have their reward already! 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. Your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

7 “And when you pray, don’t babble on and on like the pagans, who think God will hear them better if they talk a lot. 8 Don’t be like them, because your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9 You, therefore, pray like this:

Our Father in heaven!
May your Name be kept holy.

10 May your Kingdom come,
your will be done on earth as in heaven.

11 Give us the food we need today.

12 Forgive us what we have done wrong,
as we too have forgiven those who have wronged us.

13 And do not lead us into hard testing,
but keep us safe from the Evil One.
For kingship, power and glory are yours forever.

Amen.’
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:24 AM
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Not to mention, she didn't remain a virgin her entire life, so why call her that...never understood that.
Uuuuhhh... YES SHE DID!.
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:47 AM
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...Not to mention, she didn't remain a virgin her entire life, so why call her that...never understood that. ...
More slander from the Messianic Jews and Judaizers on this site.

There is no sense in discussing anything with these people, because they don't believe that the Christian Church should exist and will do anything to slander and denigrate the Church. In this case blaspheming about the Theotokos.

NEWS FLASH:
CHRISTIANS DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE LIKE JEWS AND OBSERVE YOUR JEWISH CUSTOMS
.

I can respect a Jew who believes in his Jewish Faith even though I disagree with him. These Messianic Jews who claim to believe in Jesus Christ, but deny the Church and live like Jews following Jewish religious customs are hypocrites.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:04 PM
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Not to mention, she didn't remain a virgin her entire life, so why call her that...never understood that.
Once upon a time, I was a precocious Catholic attending CCD. A passage at Mass came up about James being the brother of Jesus (aimplyingMary not remaining a virgin.) Later in the week, I went out of my way and knocked on the priests office to ask about this. He point blank lied to me! He told me the passage was spiritual brothers and Mary, had stayed a virgin her entire life.

Of course, I did not realize he lied to me for decades. However, the capacity to take literal statements metaphorically explains why many today reject religion altogether. And I still struggle with this today for it seems a cop out.

For instance, I hold that Jesus was in the grave for 3 days. Only stretching words to be whatever you want can one die on Friday, be in the ground for 3 days and 3 nights like Jonah in the belly of the fish, and rise bright and early Sunday morning!

Another bizarro story is the Fall. It is hard to believe the God of the old testament when the "Father of Lies" tells the literal truth, you will not die when you eat the fruit but God tells a metaphorical truth, you will spiritually die - and physically die in 9 centuries!

Science tells us the Earth is much older than 6,000 years? No problem. Let's redefine a day to a metaphorical day! It can be any length of time you want it to be. The ever-virgin Mary with multiple sons and daughters.

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Old 06-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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It is hard to believe. I will say it is impossible to believe. But the Holy Spirit can give you the solution.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:34 PM
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Plus at least twice in the gospels, it's mentioned about Jesus' brothers and sisters.... And parents of one child don't lose/leave that child behind in Jerusalem at age 12....one child is remembered, lol. After more come....mama thinks so and so is with someone else. Matthew 1:25 says she remained a virgin UNTIL her son Jesus was born.

But this is a topic that sides are drawn on, and neither side will change their mind about. It is not a topic which we will agree on.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:42 PM
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Plus at least twice in the gospels, it's mentioned about Jesus' brothers and sisters.... And parents of one child don't lose/leave that child behind in Jerusalem at age 12....one child is remembered, lol. After more come....mama thinks so and so is with someone else. Matthew 1:25 says she remained a virgin UNTIL her son Jesus was born.

But this is a topic that sides are drawn on, and neither side will change their mind about. It is not a topic which we will agree on.

All answers here:
https://www.goarch.org/-/the-ever-vi...-mother-of-god
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:57 PM
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Good post! Below are two paragraphs of the article which should be read in its entirety.

"...The Septuagint, the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures used by the Apostles (abbreviated LXX) includes specific words for "cousin," notably adelphinos and anepsios, but they are rarely used. The less specific word adelphos, which can mean "brother," "cousin," "kinsman," "fellow believer," or "fellow countryman," is used consistently throughout the LXX, even when cousin or kinsman is clearly the relation described (such as in Genesis 14:14, 16; 29:12; Leviticus 25:49; Jeremiah 32:8, 9, 12; Tobit 7:2; etc.). Lot, for instance, who was the nephew of Abraham (cf. Genesis 11:27-31), is called his brother in Genesis 13:8 and 11:14-16. The point is that the commonly used Greek word for a male relative, adelphos, can be translated "cousin" or "brother" if no specific family relation is indicated.

Is there anywhere a clear statement in the Scriptures establishing Jesus brothers as literally the children of Mary? In fact, there is not. Nowhere is Mary explicitly stated to be the mother of Jesus' brothers. The formula for speaking of the Lord's family is "His mother and His brothers." In Mark the possessive, anavtou"of Him," is inserted before both "His mother" and "His brothers," making a clear distinction. In Acts 1:14, the separation is more pronounced: "Mary the mother of Jesus, and His brothers." Some manuscripts use the conjunctive syn "along with, in company with," so that the text reads "Mary the mother of Jesus, along with His brothers." In any case, Mary is never identified as the mother of Jesus' brothers (nor they as her children), but only as the Mother of Jesus. ..."
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:05 PM
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Reading that make me think of my dad and mom standing right there in front of me. And then looking at my mom (with my dad RIGHT there) and asking her if dad could help me You know how she would respond, why are you asking me, your dad is right there.
That's odd. I went to my mother on many occasions for things that I wanted. It was amazing the influence she had on my dad. Your family life must have been different.

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Not to mention, she didn't remain a virgin her entire life, so why call her that...never understood that.
Uh ... I'm not comfortable discussing your mother on this particular point.

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NOWHERE in scripture are we told to pray to anyone but GOD. ’
Where in Scripture does it state that we are ONLY to pray to God?
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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Once upon a time, I was a precocious Catholic attending CCD. A passage at Mass came up about James being the brother of Jesus (aimplyingMary not remaining a virgin.) Later in the week, I went out of my way and knocked on the priests office to ask about this ...
Why didn't you ask your parents? They were the ones responsible for your religious upbringing.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:11 PM
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But this is a topic that sides are drawn on, and neither side will change their mind about.
Isn't that true on EVERY point of doctrine; that sides are drawn, and neither side will change their mind?

If you read my thread on Conversion stories, there weren't too many. This means for all the posts made in the religious section, there are not too many stories people have of actually changing anyone's heart or mind.

We live in an age where we have to be rationally ignorant. We cannot pay attention to everything and function. For instance, I recently came across the concept of "soul sleep." Never hearing of it before, I was open to the argument but am not very passionate about it either way. My wife's pastor rejects it for reasons that are not very strong.

What is your opinion of soul sleep? If you're not familiar with it, click here for a good Scriptural analysis.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:20 PM
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What is your opinion of soul sleep? If you're not familiar with it, click here for a good Scriptural analysis.
It gained most of its popularity with the Millerites and the Adventists in the 1800s.

Watchingtheweasel's 11th Commandment: All theology newer than the Battle of Valley Forge is, by definition, false.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:22 PM
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Just out of curiosity, how many of these 'spiritual warriors' who abstained from sex throughout all of their lives were married?

It's so funny to read you type stuff like this while also starting threads on salvation is only through the sacraments. Isn't marriage one of the sacrements? Doesn't marriage provide the divinely inspired pathway to sex? It seems this conundrum makes a mockery of marriage.

If you think this is not a contradiction, my hats off to your powers of rationalization. And poor Joseph. Seems he ought to be honored for marrying this woman AND NEVER consummating the marriage. Odd that there are NOT more verses on this while there ARE verses on Jesus brother's and sisters.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:47 PM
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For instance, I hold that Jesus was in the grave for 3 days.
Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

For comparison's sake, look at Esther 4:16 and 5:1. Esther mentioned fasting for three days and nights and said that she would then go into the king, which she did, but 5:1 tells us clearly that it was on the third day that she went into the king, not after three days or on the fourth. This simply illustrates the way the Jews reckoned time. For that matter it illustrates how we reckon time. if I leave on a three day business trip, I leave on day 1, am gone day 2, and return on day 3.

The phrase three days and three nights, as it is used in the Bible in the story above, in the story of Jonah, or as Jesus referred to it regarding his death and resurrection does not specifically mean three 72 hour blocks of time.

Quote:
Another bizarro story is the Fall. It is hard to believe the God of the old testament when the "Father of Lies" tells the literal truth, you will not die when you eat the fruit but God tells a metaphorical truth, you will spiritually die - and physically die in 9 centuries!
Not sure how you're drawing that conclusion. Satan lied - he told Eve that she would not die, regardless of how you define that death. She and Adam disobeyed God, ate of the fruit, and as a result acquired both spiritual and physical death. Read a bit about the telomere theory of aging. Such a mechanism wouldn't be inconsistent with human lifespans that progressively shortened over generations as Genesis describes.

Quote:
Science tells us the Earth is much older than 6,000 years? No problem. Let's redefine a day to a metaphorical day! It can be any length of time you want it to be.
That's another pandora's box that I'm not going to get into because it would derail the thread completely, but lets just say that given the choice of 4.5 billions of years old, and some segment of time measured in thousands or tens of thousands of years I'm going to pick the latter as accurate.

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The ever-virgin Mary with multiple sons and daughters.
Cat and Batko have addressed that one.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:51 PM
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Just out of curiosity, how many of these 'spiritual warriors' who abstained from sex throughout all of their lives were married?
"But even if there’s no perfect definition for a “sexless” marriage, everyone seems to agree that they’re common. Newsweek estimates that about 15 to 20 percent of couples are in one, and sexless marriage is the topic of myriad new books—like Yager-Berkowitz’s—and plenty of articles and columns."

LINK

Apparently almost 1 in 5.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchingtheweasels View Post
Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Fri @ Dusk, t = 0
Sat @ Dusk, t = 1
Sun @ Dawn, t = 1.5

Compare to Thursday being Special Sabbath of Passover:
Wed @ Dusk, t = 0
Thu @ Dusk, t = 1
Fri @ Dusk, t = 2
Sat @ Dusk, t = 3
Sun @ Dawn, Tomb found empty (empty for ~12 hours)
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:59 PM
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"But even if there’s no perfect definition for a “sexless” marriage
Yea, cuz words mean whatever you want.

A "sexless marriage" has never meant the couple never had any sex, just the sex life dwindled over time AFTER consummation.
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:00 PM
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Just out of curiosity, how many of these 'spiritual warriors' who abstained from sex throughout all of their lives were married?

It's so funny to read you type stuff like this while also starting threads on salvation is only through the sacraments. Isn't marriage one of the sacrements? Doesn't marriage provide the divinely inspired pathway to sex? It seems this conundrum makes a mockery of marriage.

If you think this is not a contradiction, my hats off to your powers of rationalization. And poor Joseph. Seems he ought to be honored for marrying this woman AND NEVER consummating the marriage. Odd that there are NOT more verses on this while there ARE verses on Jesus brother's and sisters.

Sorry, I am not discussing theology with somebody that does not believe in Adam and Eve. What will be the point?
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:05 PM
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Jesus vita the Holy Spirit teaches me how to live, and what He wants done, day to day.
His design, not mine.
I am accountable to Him for all I say and do, or don't do .
I much rather have His guidance than that of men, whom will own that day be held accountable for all they taught . Attracting men to them self, rather than God.
Religious behaviors do not replace the tutelage of the Holy Spirit Jesus provides.
I know noble things that can be done , but it is better knowing what God thinks needs to be done .
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