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Old 08-05-2019, 10:37 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is online now
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:49 PM
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Now you have me checking the couch for money to buy it. Someone please buy this before I scrounge enough


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Old 08-05-2019, 10:55 PM
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Your wish was granted. $750 shipped and my FFL buddy gave me a copy yesterday.... Kept reminding myself I did NOT need another!
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:12 PM
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Is this still available? I'm really interested.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:41 PM
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If I didn't have an M1A1, I would have been all over this.... priced to sell quick.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:57 PM
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It's SPF, but they pop up there about that price pretty regularly.
(Sell quick though.)
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:43 PM
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Israel Putnam Israel Putnam is offline
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Is $750 for a kit rifle with function problems really the going rate?

Yikes.
My FN must be worth at least $6000...
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
Is $750 for a kit rifle with function problems really the going rate?

Yikes.
My FN must be worth at least $6000...
Some of the early FN's go for $4,000+ from what I have seen on Gun Broker.

I thought long and hard about getting a "real" FAL when I picked mine up but since DSA has been making some very nice builds for about $1,850 so I gave in and got one of those and now I don't feel bad about taking it out in the woods and beating on it.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
Is $750 for a kit rifle with function problems really the going rate?

Yikes.
My FN must be worth at least $6000...
Some are. Which is yours?


Quote:
NOTE:The rifle has inconsistent brass ejection. Sometimes it tosses it a foot, sometimes 3 or 4ft
That's NOT "functioning problems", it (according to the poster, I know nothing about the rifle) fires and ejects reliably.
The definition of function...
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Some are. Which is yours?



Quote:
That's NOT "functioning problems", it (according to the poster, I know nothing about the rifle) fires and ejects reliably.
The definition of function...
So the gas system of the FAL is designed to throw brass all over with a three foot spread?
Guess I learned something today, I like learning.
I need to have mine looked at, because it doesn’t do that.
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:05 PM
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Way back when, I bought a de-milled STG 58 from Austria, complete except for about an inch of the receiver. It had been torch cut right thru the receiver to de-mill it but only after it was disassembled. Judging from the wear on the internals and the bore, I'm pretty sure it was a parade ground rifle and hardly if ever fired. Then I bought an Imbel Gear Logo receiver (On my FFL) imported up thru Brazil and built the rifle on that.

I spent several days at the range with my tools and tuned the rifle. (I owned a gunsmithing business) Now, as long as I'm prone or on a bench, it'll drop the brass into a coffee can. I bought one of those replacement top cover scope mounts and tried it for a couple of mags. The idea was good but the design was crap so I modified it with more clamping power. Now it'll hold zero like it's supposed to. At the time, I bought a Simmons 3 x 9 x 40 scope for temporary like, just to see what the rifle could do. The scope has held a good zero for several cases of ammo so I left it on there.

I did a lot of tuning on the internals and the gas system but there's not much that can be done with the oem barrel. You can't really free float it because the handguards mount to it and the gas piston hangs off of it but I did "looser float" it. It's not a tack driver but it will print a palm sized pattern at 200 yards. I'm ok with that. I love my STG-58. It's very reliable, versatile with the adjustable gas system and accurate enough. One of the neat things about it, is that I can adjust the gas system so the recoil is very gentle.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:36 PM
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FAL. My favorite rifle. How can you go wrong with a 12 pound rifle with it's own carry handle? You can't!
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
FAL. My favorite rifle. How can you go wrong with a 12 pound rifle with it's own carry handle? You can't!
Get a 9.5lb PTR with a carry handle.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
Get a 9.5lb PTR with a carry handle.
Sprinkle in $1 magazines as well...
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Old 08-13-2019, 09:59 PM
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Before I retired for the last time, I owned and operated a firearms restoration business. We refinished/rebuilt and/or restored firearms, mostly for law enforcement and a few government agencies. Whenever I would get a hankering for a new firearm, I knew that if I waited a while I'd get one in the shop so I could check it over to see if I was going to like it. I saved myself some money that way because the real thing just wasn't as comfortable or built as well or didn't have the controls in the right place or whatever as the magazine article said it did.

Then I got a hankering for a new main battle rifle. I eliminated them one by one until only the FN-FAL aka STG-58 and the H&K 91 or clone remained. Lo and behold, both of those rifles arrived at the shop within a few days of each other. I checked them both out very closely and tested how they felt against my shoulder. Then I went thru some simple drills with them.

Hmmm. My arms aren't the longest in the world but they're not short either. Stroking the FN-Fal was easy because the handle was right there behind my left hand but the H&K was difficult because the charging handle was so far forward. Proned out was even worse. Score one for the FN. Then I discovered that the H&K had no last round fired bolt hold open. The FN did. Score another one for the FN.

Then I disassembled them both. The FN opened up like a break action shotgun and folded in the middle with no loose parts laying around. The H&K? I had to beat the two pins out, one of which rolled off the bench and under it. I had to climb under there to retrieve it. Score another one or maybe even two for the FN. Then I had to jump up and down while squeezing the butt stock between my ankles to get it to separate from the receiver. Yeah it was a little rusty but the FN just breaks open when you push the lever. So there I was with both rifles opened enough to get the bolt and carrier out except the FN was still just one part while the H&K was in four parts. Score another one for the FN.

Internally, the H&K used a lot of stamped steel parts. Externally, it used a lot of stamped steel parts too. Most of the FN is forged and machined steel parts. Score another one for the the FN. The trigger group of the H&K is a unit that is difficult to clean while it's still assembled. The FN's trigger group is all open and exposed after the top half is removed. It's easy to clean. Score another one for the FN.

Then to top it all off, the H&K bit me when I popped the bolt hold open loose. Yeah yeah I know. I should have done it faster but the FN never did that. Maybe because the charging handle isn't controlled by the bolt??!! Score another one for the FN.

Something that I discovered later after working on quite a few H&K's, is that the inside of the charging rod tube is prone to rust. I've actually seen a few that were rusted thru! (Check yours if you have one or a clone)

Now, I'm sure the H&K aka PTR is a fine rifle and yes, it weighs less than an FN-FAL or STG-58. However, there's a reason that the FN-FAL is known as the "Right arm of the free world". It's been used by more countries as their primary main battle rifle that any other rifle. That's because it works and does it better than any other rifle.
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Old 08-14-2019, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfthang View Post
Before I retired for the last time, I owned and operated a firearms restoration business. We refinished/rebuilt and/or restored firearms, mostly for law enforcement and a few government agencies. Whenever I would get a hankering for a new firearm, I knew that if I waited a while I'd get one in the shop so I could check it over to see if I was going to like it. I saved myself some money that way because the real thing just wasn't as comfortable or built as well or didn't have the controls in the right place or whatever as the magazine article said it did.

Then I got a hankering for a new main battle rifle. I eliminated them one by one until only the FN-FAL aka STG-58 and the H&K 91 or clone remained. Lo and behold, both of those rifles arrived at the shop within a few days of each other. I checked them both out very closely and tested how they felt against my shoulder. Then I went thru some simple drills with them.

Hmmm. My arms aren't the longest in the world but they're not short either. Stroking the FN-Fal was easy because the handle was right there behind my left hand but the H&K was difficult because the charging handle was so far forward. Proned out was even worse. Score one for the FN. Then I discovered that the H&K had no last round fired bolt hold open. The FN did. Score another one for the FN.

Then I disassembled them both. The FN opened up like a break action shotgun and folded in the middle with no loose parts laying around. The H&K? I had to beat the two pins out, one of which rolled off the bench and under it. I had to climb under there to retrieve it. Score another one or maybe even two for the FN. Then I had to jump up and down while squeezing the butt stock between my ankles to get it to separate from the receiver. Yeah it was a little rusty but the FN just breaks open when you push the lever. So there I was with both rifles opened enough to get the bolt and carrier out except the FN was still just one part while the H&K was in four parts. Score another one for the FN.

Internally, the H&K used a lot of stamped steel parts. Externally, it used a lot of stamped steel parts too. Most of the FN is forged and machined steel parts. Score another one for the the FN. The trigger group of the H&K is a unit that is difficult to clean while it's still assembled. The FN's trigger group is all open and exposed after the top half is removed. It's easy to clean. Score another one for the FN.

Then to top it all off, the H&K bit me when I popped the bolt hold open loose. Yeah yeah I know. I should have done it faster but the FN never did that. Maybe because the charging handle isn't controlled by the bolt??!! Score another one for the FN.

Something that I discovered later after working on quite a few H&K's, is that the inside of the charging rod tube is prone to rust. I've actually seen a few that were rusted thru! (Check yours if you have one or a clone)

Now, I'm sure the H&K aka PTR is a fine rifle and yes, it weighs less than an FN-FAL or STG-58. However, there's a reason that the FN-FAL is known as the "Right arm of the free world". It's been used by more countries as their primary main battle rifle that any other rifle. That's because it works and does it better than any other rifle.
Comedy gold.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:53 PM
Wulfthang Wulfthang is offline
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Glad you enjoyed it! It just goes to show that the truth can be entertaining too!
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:28 PM
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I've always thought FALs were super cool and that's likely because I've never had to ruck one.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:54 PM
Wulfthang Wulfthang is offline
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Yeah that's for sure! It's a heavy SOB! Carrying mine from the car to the firing line is far enough.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:38 AM
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7.5x55 Swiss 7.5x55 Swiss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfthang View Post
Before I retired for the last time, I owned and operated a firearms restoration business. We refinished/rebuilt and/or restored firearms, mostly for law enforcement and a few government agencies. Whenever I would get a hankering for a new firearm, I knew that if I waited a while I'd get one in the shop so I could check it over to see if I was going to like it. I saved myself some money that way because the real thing just wasn't as comfortable or built as well or didn't have the controls in the right place or whatever as the magazine article said it did.

Then I got a hankering for a new main battle rifle. I eliminated them one by one until only the FN-FAL aka STG-58 and the H&K 91 or clone remained. Lo and behold, both of those rifles arrived at the shop within a few days of each other. I checked them both out very closely and tested how they felt against my shoulder. Then I went thru some simple drills with them.

Hmmm. My arms aren't the longest in the world but they're not short either. Stroking the FN-Fal was easy because the handle was right there behind my left hand but the H&K was difficult because the charging handle was so far forward. Proned out was even worse. Score one for the FN. Then I discovered that the H&K had no last round fired bolt hold open. The FN did. Score another one for the FN.

Then I disassembled them both. The FN opened up like a break action shotgun and folded in the middle with no loose parts laying around. The H&K? I had to beat the two pins out, one of which rolled off the bench and under it. I had to climb under there to retrieve it. Score another one or maybe even two for the FN. Then I had to jump up and down while squeezing the butt stock between my ankles to get it to separate from the receiver. Yeah it was a little rusty but the FN just breaks open when you push the lever. So there I was with both rifles opened enough to get the bolt and carrier out except the FN was still just one part while the H&K was in four parts. Score another one for the FN.

Internally, the H&K used a lot of stamped steel parts. Externally, it used a lot of stamped steel parts too. Most of the FN is forged and machined steel parts. Score another one for the the FN. The trigger group of the H&K is a unit that is difficult to clean while it's still assembled. The FN's trigger group is all open and exposed after the top half is removed. It's easy to clean. Score another one for the FN.

Then to top it all off, the H&K bit me when I popped the bolt hold open loose. Yeah yeah I know. I should have done it faster but the FN never did that. Maybe because the charging handle isn't controlled by the bolt??!! Score another one for the FN.

Something that I discovered later after working on quite a few H&K's, is that the inside of the charging rod tube is prone to rust. I've actually seen a few that were rusted thru! (Check yours if you have one or a clone)

Now, I'm sure the H&K aka PTR is a fine rifle and yes, it weighs less than an FN-FAL or STG-58. However, there's a reason that the FN-FAL is known as the "Right arm of the free world". It's been used by more countries as their primary main battle rifle that any other rifle. That's because it works and does it better than any other rifle.
I'm huge fan of the HK clones.

The charging thing is understandable, but it does have a bolt hold open feature, just not the LRBHO.

As far as disassembly goes, unless the rifles came in with a different stock there are two holes that hold the pins in the stock so you don't lose them, then the rifle filed strips in to 5 pieces, and one of them doesn't need cleaning because it's the stock... Very easy. Even taking apart the BCG is fairly easy as well, although unnecessary in the field.

The charging handle on the HK-91 isn't controlled by the bolt either, it functions literally the same way as the FAL charging handle, non-reciprocating. You were just not fast enough to get your hand out of the way.

Rust in the cocking tube is from poor maintenance. A little preventative maintenance would have gone a long way for that rifle, and it can happen to the FAL too. Like the FAL, it won't affect the function of the HK-91/PTR-91.

About the same number of countries used the H&Ks as the FALs by the way, and for both rifles not all of those countries were part of the "Free" world.

I still like my PTR-91 clones better than my brothers FAL, but I think they both perform about the same, have the same level of customization (read not much and usually expensive for good quality parts) and do the same thing so it's all about personal preference. The FAL might have a slight edge in accuracy but not enough to justify me completely dropping all my 91 clones that I've got hundreds of magazines, tons of cleaning kits, and spare parts for.

I think the only treal advantage the FAL would have over the HK would be that it's better for a 5.56 version. I had an HK-93 clone and while it was a nice gun, 5.56 ultimately just didn't feel right in the platform. It wasn't as ergonomic or user friendly as (not that the G3/HK-91 is either) an AR-15. Traded that for another PTR-91.
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