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Old 10-21-2019, 07:34 PM
Florida Jean Florida Jean is online now
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So, if Mexico has no say in a section of their country -- then they have to regain control, or just say 'They aren't part of Mexico anymore'. Let Mexico split up. Folks talk about the different sections of the USA -- well, the differences in Mexico are even more extreme.

****************

So -- considering what might occur in the USA [all the folks here expound on various versions.

How would local LEO's deal with the kidnapping/threatening of their family members?

How would the US military deal with family members being kidnapped/threatened?

I mention this because we already know certain sectors think nothing of doxing a child and threatening her with all sorts of horrible things.
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:14 PM
PurpleKitty PurpleKitty is offline
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The problem I perceive in mexico, and I am not a military or police expert, is the rank and file have no support from above.

I can think of several episodes of Criminal Minds, for instance, where a family member was threatened. Remember when the guy killed someone's wife and was after his son? The agent beat him to death and was exonerated for it.

I forget what happened to the female kidnapper when JJ's son was kidnapped but pretty sure she was killed. And their section chief backed them up on it and so did upper management.

In mexico it seems if the cartel comes after your family you have no choice but to cooperate or lose your family, they don't seem to be able to go up the food chain and ask for help. And that is anathema to US law enforcement - at least to my understanding. We have plenty of LEOS and military on board so someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:35 PM
Snyper708 Snyper708 is offline
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If they legalized it all they would take away the lawless aspect of it.
Not really.
People still make "moonshine".
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:01 PM
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Not really.

People still make "moonshine".
Yup. And weed is legally grown in a lot of places now but the black market is still booming .

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Old 10-22-2019, 11:27 AM
PurpleKitty PurpleKitty is offline
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That, IMO, is because they make it so hard to get it legally.

My husband is an alcoholic. He has said again and again he would not drink if he could smoke. I believe him.

About 20 years ago walking home and I passed a head shop in my neighborhood, a man in a suit got out of a sports car and rammed into me on purpose, making me drop my box of produce I got delivered at work. I picked everything up and went home, about a block away.

I am putting the groceries away and I see a baggie filled with green herb. I smell it, it is pot. I did not use it but he did whenever he could afford it.

I thought about it, I could go find the guy and give him his pot back but pretty sure that was illegal. So was leaving it at the store. I didn't want to call the police.

So, when my husband got back home from work I gave it to him. He started screaming "INDICA!" and got his pipe. He asked me what I did for it, as it was worth about $500. I did not know that but still would have made the same decision most likely.

He literally smoked himself into pneumonia, but he did not vomit, fall down, treat me badly, etc. I much preferred him like that. I wish it were legal so we could continue that.

That is why I think most mind altering stuff is illegal, big booze is going to lose a fortune when it does go legal - all of it.

Now he uses Kratom for pain control, it works very well, legal in Texas, not in some other states but we are OK. The supplier is in Texas.

I would much rather have him on pot but it is not up to me.

If someone is hell bent on hurting themselves they can do it just as well on legal stuff (tobacco, alcohol, food).
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:35 AM
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How soon will that flash over into our country?

It already has. The Cartels are killing Americans with their drugs
by the thousands. They know that if there are major gun battles
on the streets of America it will just ruin a good thing for them.

Why should they fight our military when they can destroy America
without firing a shot?

The only one in their way is President Trump.
Who likely furnishes the cartels with fentanyl? China, the same China that flooded SE Asia (Vietnam...) with cheap heroin to get our soldiers hooked and then they took the habit home with them.

The reasoning, if the US is there in Vietnam to kill their children, we will then kill their children on the US streets.

Armies have ROEs, the cartels have none of that to slow them down. If you are in their way, you will likely be eliminated.
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Old 10-22-2019, 11:55 AM
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I can neither confirm nor authenticate the source, but this appears a well-written commentary on recent events in Mexico. The questions raised by “El Anti-Pozolero,” below, require more urgent attention than Americans seem to be able to muster these days. I cannot say whether he’s right because I haven’t set foot in Mexico in more than twenty years. But worthy of thought? It sure looks that way from the news:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Suppose if you had two armored SWAT vehicles, 10 officially-marked unarmored vehicles and two up-armored HUMMVs and 30-35 experienced and well trained men, do you think you could do a raid on a house and extract one criminal?
So after you have taken this guy into custody do you think with this force you could return to your HQ, put this criminal in jail and keep him there long enough to extradite him to another country, let's say hold him for just 24 hours?


I think most professional law enforcement agencies would say sure, we do it all the time. I think most of us if we were on that raid force would say ‘we got this’ right up until we are confronted with ‘a force greater than’ the raid force. Oh yeah, did I mention the bad guys have 50 cal. Barrett sniper rifles and vehicle mounted M2 belt fed machine guns. They respond from outside of the road cordon too.

“You may have read the news just a few days back: the Mexican military captured not one but two of El Chapo’s sons in the heart of Culiacán, the Sinaloan capital. One son freed himself—which is to say his entourage and retainers at hand overpowered and killed the soldiers at hand—and then, in a decisive riposte, seized the entire city center of Culiacán to compel the liberation of his brother.

“I have been watching videos of what went down in this El Chapo Jr raid down in Mexico. From what I have seen the force greater than responded from outside of the road cordon and in the end for public safety the Chapo kid was released.

"El Chapo’s son had a QRF that reacted with speed, surprise and violence of action. From a tactical perspective I’ve got to give the cartel guys an overall satisfactory rating on their performance. The news videos don’t really supply enough information for me to determine the force on force ratio or the scheme of maneuver.

“The forces that emerged were in the literal sense awesome and awful. Heavy weaponry that would be familiar on any Iraqi, Syrian, or Yemeni battlefield was brought to bear. More and worse: custom-built armored vehicles, designed and built to make a Sahel-warfare technical look like an amateur’s weekend kit job, were rolled out for their combat debut. Most critically, all this hardware was manned by men with qualities the Mexican Army largely lacks: training, tactical proficiency, and motivation.

Then the coup de grace: as the Chapo sons’ forces engaged in direct combat with their own national military, kill squads went into action across Culiacán, slaughtering the families of soldiers engaged in the streets.


If the cartel guys are willing to hold the population hostage and the public servants are unwilling to accept collateral losses then its ‘game over’ the cartel wins.

Everyone needs to bring this up every time we hear a ‘liberal’ talking about how great it would be to have more gun control. Only outlaws have got guns, right? Who could have predicted that?

An extralegal tactic to mitigate collateral losses would be a low intensity campaign of assassinations of the cartel members and their supporter similar to what the ‘los pepes’ did in Columbia during the hunt for Pablo Escobar. I would bet that the President of Mexico is on the take for large green from the cartel. Actually it almost goes without saying of course for all of the Mexican presidents for the past 30 years.

“It was the Roman Lucius Cornelius Sulla that said; ‘You’re not really rich until you can buy your own army.’ The cartel has the financial resources of a nation state, abides by no rules and is motivated only by greed. I am yet to figure out why the region from Mexico to Columbia isn't the manufacturing juggernaut of the west. Actually I know the answer it's because investors have had zero faith in any governing body of Central America to secure their economy for future expansion. Unbridled corruption.

“Cowed and overmatched—most crucially in the moral arena—the hapless band of soldiers still holding the second son finally received word from Mexico City, direct from President AMLO himself: surrender. Surrender and release the prisoner. It’s an absolutely extraordinary episode even by the grim and bizarre annals of what we mistakenly call the post-2006 Mexican Drug War.

“The Battle of Culiacán stands on a level above, say, the Ayotzinapa massacre, or the Zetas’ expulsion of the entire population of Ciudad Mier. Killing scores of innocents and brutalizing small towns is one thing: seizing regional capital cities and crushing the national armed forces in open fighting in broad daylight is something else. ‘Drug War’ is a misnomer for reasons the Culiacán battle lays bare. This is not a mafia-type problem, nor one comprehensible within the framework of law enforcement and crime.

This is something very much like an insurgency now—think of the eruption of armed resistance in Culiacán in 2019 as something like that in Sadr City in 2004—and also something completely like state collapse.

"The cartels may be the proximate drivers but they are symptoms. Underlying them is a miasma of official corruption, popular alienation, and localist resentments—and underlying all that is a low-trust civil society stripped of the mediating mechanisms that make peaceable democracy both feasible and attractive.

“Note as an aside that the cartels are not even necessarily drug-trafficking-specific entities. There have been ferocious and bloody cartel battles—against one another, against the state—for control of economic interests ranging from port operations to the avocado crop to lime exports. Illegal drugs supercharge their resources and ambitions, but absent them and that illegality they would simply assume another form.

“I want to pause here and be explicit: none of this is an argument that Mexicans are incapable of liberality and democracy. The millions of Mexicans in the United States illustrate the contrary quite well, and localist democratic structures in Mexico proper are often of the sort that would make a communitarian conservative’s heart swell with pride. What is argued here is that Culiacán illuminates that the Mexican state as constituted is incompetent to that end.

“Simply put, we can understand the past two centuries of Mexican history as a cyclic alternation between chaotic liberality and pluralism on the one hand, and orderly (if corrupt) autocracy on the other. The orderly and corrupt Porfiriato was followed by the horrors of civil war unleashed by Madero, followed in turn by the “perfect dictatorship” of the PRI, followed in turn by this century’s emergence of true Mexican multiparty democracy—and therefore the disintegration of the state we see now.

“This is important because Americans have not had to think seriously about this for nearly a century: there is a place on the map marked Mexico, but much of it is governed by something other than the Mexican state. That’s been true for years.

“The Battle of Culiacán, government surrender and all, made it open and explicit. What happens now, barring an exceedingly unlikely discovery of spine and competence by the government in Mexico City, is more and worse.

"Mexico is on a trajectory toward warlordism reminiscent of, say, 1930s China or its own 1910s. Some of those warlords will be the cartels. Some of them will be virtuous local forces genuinely on the side of order and justice—for example the autodefensa citizen militias of Michoacán. Some of them will be the official state, grasping for what it can. Some of them, given sufficient time, will be autonomous or even secessionist movements: look to Chiapas, Morelia, et al., for that. The lines between all these groups will be hazy and easily crossed. None will be mutually exclusive from the others.

“It is tragic and a pity, because Mexico has in fact mastered the forms if not the substance of democratic civics.

"It is a shame because much of the Mexican diaspora in the United States is transmitting back home ideas of natural rights and a virtuous armed citizenry—right at the moment we ourselves have stopped believing in those things. (This has been a significant driver of the autodefensa phenomenon.)

"It is a loss because, depending on how you measure it, México just this decade tipped into a majority middle-class society for the first time in its history. In regions like the Bajío, advanced manufacturing is taking root and a class of engineers is slowly changing the old ways.

“Nevertheless as any student of history will tell you, revolution happens not when things are bad, but when expectations are frustrated. So what does all this mean for the United States? A century of relative peace along our southern border has left us complacent. We haven’t seriously thought about what it might mean if a nation of one hundred twenty million people with thousands of miles of land and coastal access to the United States went into collapse.

We still tell ourselves a series of falsehoods about Mexico: that the immigration problem is about immigration, that the crime problem is about crime, that the Mexican state is the solution and not the problem, that they can handle their own affairs, that light-armor forces can overrun Culiacán and it isn’t our problem.

“We know how we handled it last time México evaporated as a cohesive state, in 1910-1920. By late spring 1916, cross-border raiding got so bad that we mobilized the entire National Guard and called for volunteers. Most people remember the punitive expedition against the Villistas. Less remembered are the raids and counter-raids at places like San Ygnacio, Texas—and still less remembered is the time the United States Army was compelled to attack and occupy Mexican Nogales in 1918, and Ciudad Juárez in 1919.

“You may rightly ask whether we are capable of the same policy now—and if we are, whether we are competent to execute it. Mexico is not an enemy state, and the Mexicans are not an enemy people. Yet as Mexico falls apart, we need to ask ourselves questions normally reserved for objectively hostile nations. There is a war underway. It won’t stop at the border.

“It’s time to look south, and think. From Culiacán, Sinaloa, to Nogales, Arizona, is one day’s drive.

— El Anti-Pozolero is a pseudonym.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:10 PM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is offline
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Just read an article saying the Mexican military is sending in 400 commandos to deal with this incident.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:18 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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Just read an article saying the Mexican military is sending in 400 commandos to deal with this incident.
Could you please post a link to the source? Would be much appreciated. Thx.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:41 PM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is offline
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https://www.infowars.com/mexico-send...po-son-arrest/
Yeah its infowars.
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Old 10-22-2019, 02:03 PM
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I believe their Commandos might be SEMAR, which is their Marines. SEMAR were the guys responsible for Chapo and it appears they are the only force which has not been corrupted. They might be trained by us...
Mostly, army units down south march to the tune of their general and if El General is being paid off in his sector of authority then the bad guys are safe.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:46 PM
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I can neither confirm nor authenticate the source, but this appears a well-written commentary on recent events in Mexico.
Well written and worth the read.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:32 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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Some 20 years ago I was in Juarez a lot. Even then the cartels were getting AKs and other weapons from China, coming in with the chemicals they used in their drug processing and manufacturing.

The average soldato is from a rural village, not well educated and poorly paid. (I always had at least one $20 US wrapped around my drivers license for those times i had to transit a check point or was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was asked for my ID).

Leadership is based on the traditional Mexican cultural mores, in which deference is given to those of higher social class (where officers come from). Training is not much in evidence. The cartels even then did significant research on extended families for the purpose of extorting compliance. I vividly recall an Air Force General in Northern Mexico talking about the cartels seeking refueling for drug carrying planes at military air bases and his comment that if the base commander complied, he’d get $1 million per year; if not, his extended family would be killed, the women raped too, even his little girls.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Exarmyguy View Post
Reuters also has it:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKBN1X01NO
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:11 PM
Steve_In_29 Steve_In_29 is offline
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Once Obama and Holder armed the Cartel with American guns I'm sure they became emboldened. While Bummer was trying to disarm us ... he was arming the drug runners. I wonder what he got out of THAT deal!?!?!?
The weapons allowed to disappear during "Operation Fast & Furious" are not even a drop in the bucket as far as the Cartels weapons.

They prefer to buy/steal military weapons from Mexican and other sources. Those guys had full-auto rifles, heavy machine guns and RPGs they sure as heck don't care about some semi-autos from America.
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Old 10-22-2019, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
Absent a swift and terrible reckoning with the Cartels the Mexican President just destroyed whatever viability the Mexican military had left.

Knowing that there will be no help forthcoming from the national level there will be no lowly soldiers willing to put their life on the line and every Officer from General on down will be on the take.

Despite the level of actual military grade weaponry used in the fight, the article still makes it seem as if popguns from America are the issue.
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:50 PM
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It was SOP during the time i was down on the border for the cartels to offer a significant bonus to any Mexican soldier or police officer who brought an M4 or other select fire weapon with them when they left their outfit and joined the cartel.

The Los Zetas began their brutal rise as a group of 34 Mexican special forces troops who were highly trained operators with solid training in weapons, tactics, computer usage, intel gathering etc and with connections with players both inside and outside of Mexico who could be conduits for various types of weaponry. Certainly they would have been trained on something like a Barret 50 for stand off against the type of light skinned vehicles they would typically encounter throughout South America.

It is important to remember that Mexico is not a nation of poor people with little education and a desire for government benefits. It is a nation with a growing middle class with good technical education and training which generates solid skills. Mexico produces good quality steel and has developed sufficient power distribution to create large fabrication businesses. The current corruption will unfortunately hand that infrastructure to the cartels, who will use it to widen their base and hold on subject populations. They would certainly have the capacity to bring what ever light weapon system they develop across the border. I hope Trump's new wall is not just a personnel barrier.

Many in the middle class could form an effective resistance to either tge government or the cartels, but they are seriously behind tge curve without any weapons, which, IIRC, were seized about 1956/57. It has seemed to me that it would be in our interests, as well as the interests of the average citizen of Mexico for us to begin to develop a layer of resistance folks within Mexico. Never underestimate their willingness to fight - many of them really enjoy it.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PurpleKitty View Post
The problem I perceive in mexico, and I am not a military or police expert, is the rank and file have no support from above.

I can think of several episodes of Criminal Minds, for instance, where a family member was threatened. Remember when the guy killed someone's wife and was after his son? The agent beat him to death and was exonerated for it.

I forget what happened to the female kidnapper when JJ's son was kidnapped but pretty sure she was killed. And their section chief backed them up on it and so did upper management.

In mexico it seems if the cartel comes after your family you have no choice but to cooperate or lose your family, they don't seem to be able to go up the food chain and ask for help. And that is anathema to US law enforcement - at least to my understanding. We have plenty of LEOS and military on board so someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, there you go! Purple here saw it on "criminal minds". So you just know its legit

Derp.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
I can neither confirm nor authenticate the source, but this appears a well-written commentary on recent events in Mexico. The questions raised by “El Anti-Pozolero,” below, require more urgent attention than Americans seem to be able to muster these days. I cannot say whether he’s right because I haven’t set foot in Mexico in more than twenty years. But worthy of thought? It sure looks that way from the news:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Suppose if you had two armored SWAT vehicles, 10 officially-marked unarmored vehicles and two up-armored HUMMVs and 30-35 experienced and well trained men, do you think you could do a raid on a house and extract one criminal?
So after you have taken this guy into custody do you think with this force you could return to your HQ, put this criminal in jail and keep him there long enough to extradite him to another country, let's say hold him for just 24 hours?


I think most professional law enforcement agencies would say sure, we do it all the time. I think most of us if we were on that raid force would say ‘we got this’ right up until we are confronted with ‘a force greater than’ the raid force. Oh yeah, did I mention the bad guys have 50 cal. Barrett sniper rifles and vehicle mounted M2 belt fed machine guns. They respond from outside of the road cordon too.

“You may have read the news just a few days back: the Mexican military captured not one but two of El Chapo’s sons in the heart of Culiacán, the Sinaloan capital. One son freed himself—which is to say his entourage and retainers at hand overpowered and killed the soldiers at hand—and then, in a decisive riposte, seized the entire city center of Culiacán to compel the liberation of his brother.

“I have been watching videos of what went down in this El Chapo Jr raid down in Mexico. From what I have seen the force greater than responded from outside of the road cordon and in the end for public safety the Chapo kid was released.

"El Chapo’s son had a QRF that reacted with speed, surprise and violence of action. From a tactical perspective I’ve got to give the cartel guys an overall satisfactory rating on their performance. The news videos don’t really supply enough information for me to determine the force on force ratio or the scheme of maneuver.

“The forces that emerged were in the literal sense awesome and awful. Heavy weaponry that would be familiar on any Iraqi, Syrian, or Yemeni battlefield was brought to bear. More and worse: custom-built armored vehicles, designed and built to make a Sahel-warfare technical look like an amateur’s weekend kit job, were rolled out for their combat debut. Most critically, all this hardware was manned by men with qualities the Mexican Army largely lacks: training, tactical proficiency, and motivation.

Then the coup de grace: as the Chapo sons’ forces engaged in direct combat with their own national military, kill squads went into action across Culiacán, slaughtering the families of soldiers engaged in the streets.


If the cartel guys are willing to hold the population hostage and the public servants are unwilling to accept collateral losses then its ‘game over’ the cartel wins.

Everyone needs to bring this up every time we hear a ‘liberal’ talking about how great it would be to have more gun control. Only outlaws have got guns, right? Who could have predicted that?

An extralegal tactic to mitigate collateral losses would be a low intensity campaign of assassinations of the cartel members and their supporter similar to what the ‘los pepes’ did in Columbia during the hunt for Pablo Escobar. I would bet that the President of Mexico is on the take for large green from the cartel. Actually it almost goes without saying of course for all of the Mexican presidents for the past 30 years.

“It was the Roman Lucius Cornelius Sulla that said; ‘You’re not really rich until you can buy your own army.’ The cartel has the financial resources of a nation state, abides by no rules and is motivated only by greed. I am yet to figure out why the region from Mexico to Columbia isn't the manufacturing juggernaut of the west. Actually I know the answer it's because investors have had zero faith in any governing body of Central America to secure their economy for future expansion. Unbridled corruption.

“Cowed and overmatched—most crucially in the moral arena—the hapless band of soldiers still holding the second son finally received word from Mexico City, direct from President AMLO himself: surrender. Surrender and release the prisoner. It’s an absolutely extraordinary episode even by the grim and bizarre annals of what we mistakenly call the post-2006 Mexican Drug War.

“The Battle of Culiacán stands on a level above, say, the Ayotzinapa massacre, or the Zetas’ expulsion of the entire population of Ciudad Mier. Killing scores of innocents and brutalizing small towns is one thing: seizing regional capital cities and crushing the national armed forces in open fighting in broad daylight is something else. ‘Drug War’ is a misnomer for reasons the Culiacán battle lays bare. This is not a mafia-type problem, nor one comprehensible within the framework of law enforcement and crime.

This is something very much like an insurgency now—think of the eruption of armed resistance in Culiacán in 2019 as something like that in Sadr City in 2004—and also something completely like state collapse.

"The cartels may be the proximate drivers but they are symptoms. Underlying them is a miasma of official corruption, popular alienation, and localist resentments—and underlying all that is a low-trust civil society stripped of the mediating mechanisms that make peaceable democracy both feasible and attractive.

“Note as an aside that the cartels are not even necessarily drug-trafficking-specific entities. There have been ferocious and bloody cartel battles—against one another, against the state—for control of economic interests ranging from port operations to the avocado crop to lime exports. Illegal drugs supercharge their resources and ambitions, but absent them and that illegality they would simply assume another form.

“I want to pause here and be explicit: none of this is an argument that Mexicans are incapable of liberality and democracy. The millions of Mexicans in the United States illustrate the contrary quite well, and localist democratic structures in Mexico proper are often of the sort that would make a communitarian conservative’s heart swell with pride. What is argued here is that Culiacán illuminates that the Mexican state as constituted is incompetent to that end.

“Simply put, we can understand the past two centuries of Mexican history as a cyclic alternation between chaotic liberality and pluralism on the one hand, and orderly (if corrupt) autocracy on the other. The orderly and corrupt Porfiriato was followed by the horrors of civil war unleashed by Madero, followed in turn by the “perfect dictatorship” of the PRI, followed in turn by this century’s emergence of true Mexican multiparty democracy—and therefore the disintegration of the state we see now.

“This is important because Americans have not had to think seriously about this for nearly a century: there is a place on the map marked Mexico, but much of it is governed by something other than the Mexican state. That’s been true for years.

“The Battle of Culiacán, government surrender and all, made it open and explicit. What happens now, barring an exceedingly unlikely discovery of spine and competence by the government in Mexico City, is more and worse.

"Mexico is on a trajectory toward warlordism reminiscent of, say, 1930s China or its own 1910s. Some of those warlords will be the cartels. Some of them will be virtuous local forces genuinely on the side of order and justice—for example the autodefensa citizen militias of Michoacán. Some of them will be the official state, grasping for what it can. Some of them, given sufficient time, will be autonomous or even secessionist movements: look to Chiapas, Morelia, et al., for that. The lines between all these groups will be hazy and easily crossed. None will be mutually exclusive from the others.

“It is tragic and a pity, because Mexico has in fact mastered the forms if not the substance of democratic civics.

"It is a shame because much of the Mexican diaspora in the United States is transmitting back home ideas of natural rights and a virtuous armed citizenry—right at the moment we ourselves have stopped believing in those things. (This has been a significant driver of the autodefensa phenomenon.)

"It is a loss because, depending on how you measure it, México just this decade tipped into a majority middle-class society for the first time in its history. In regions like the Bajío, advanced manufacturing is taking root and a class of engineers is slowly changing the old ways.

“Nevertheless as any student of history will tell you, revolution happens not when things are bad, but when expectations are frustrated. So what does all this mean for the United States? A century of relative peace along our southern border has left us complacent. We haven’t seriously thought about what it might mean if a nation of one hundred twenty million people with thousands of miles of land and coastal access to the United States went into collapse.

We still tell ourselves a series of falsehoods about Mexico: that the immigration problem is about immigration, that the crime problem is about crime, that the Mexican state is the solution and not the problem, that they can handle their own affairs, that light-armor forces can overrun Culiacán and it isn’t our problem.

“We know how we handled it last time México evaporated as a cohesive state, in 1910-1920. By late spring 1916, cross-border raiding got so bad that we mobilized the entire National Guard and called for volunteers. Most people remember the punitive expedition against the Villistas. Less remembered are the raids and counter-raids at places like San Ygnacio, Texas—and still less remembered is the time the United States Army was compelled to attack and occupy Mexican Nogales in 1918, and Ciudad Juárez in 1919.

“You may rightly ask whether we are capable of the same policy now—and if we are, whether we are competent to execute it. Mexico is not an enemy state, and the Mexicans are not an enemy people. Yet as Mexico falls apart, we need to ask ourselves questions normally reserved for objectively hostile nations. There is a war underway. It won’t stop at the border.

“It’s time to look south, and think. From Culiacán, Sinaloa, to Nogales, Arizona, is one day’s drive.

— El Anti-Pozolero is a pseudonym.
TL;DR Mexico is a **** heap, most mexicans are uneducated, and drug lords are bad.
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Old 10-23-2019, 02:07 PM
Outpost75 Outpost75 is offline
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The cartel is a hierarchical organization which can be defined and mapped.

Key nodes of leadership can be identified and located.

Deniable extralegal direct kinetic action taken covertly to decapitate the cartel would significantly disrupt it. However, if executed timidly, without full commitment the quid pro quo could get wicked scary for our own “politicos”. It could turn into a tit for tat assassination marathon, that’s why any action taken must be devastating and decisive.

As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “When you strike at a king, you must kill him.”

Things would have to come across the border in a blatant, overt way before covert action was taken from our side, BUT the command element and the Intel collection assets should be put into place and operating now just in case operations are given the green light in the future. That's seems very Hollywood tinfoil hat like to even conceive such operations taking place, but before terrorist piloted hijacked passenger airliners into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, talking about such things was Hollywood tinfoil hat stuff as well.

As far as armed incursions into the US by cartels or whoever, it's not 1910 anymore and the cartels really don't want America involved in their business. They will stay at home.
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