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Old 10-19-2019, 03:19 PM
Rural Buckeye Guy Rural Buckeye Guy is offline
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Default ATF regulation hole:suppressors?



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Ran across this but needed so qualified opinions. Thanks!

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/08/hom...tf-regulation/
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:42 PM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is online now
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Who really cares what a government thinks . They dont listen to reason anyway. Unless you take pictures and post them online the feds dont no what you own. That being said most of these types of silencers arent that quiet. Even professional ones are disappointing.
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Rural Buckeye Guy View Post
Ran across this but needed so qualified opinions. Thanks!

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/08/hom...tf-regulation/
I’ve often wondered why we don’t use form 1 more often since it’s faster. Kits could be sold that would make the process easier and if you have the form 1 stamp owning parts is legal.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:39 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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ATF has ran online stings like that...
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:55 PM
273andme 273andme is online now
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If you want a suppressor buy one pay the stamp get the warranty rather than build one pay the stamp and no warranty.

ATF isnt tracking NFA items. forms get scanned and lost int the void with everything else. you cant even get copies. Do they have the records sure all the way back to 1934. i think the only thing you can get hemmed up for is not having the paperwork YOU are supposed to have should some LEO ask for it and they probably wont know anything about the NFA.

biggest thing is going across state lines.

but if SHTF all that ATF NFA crap is going out the window anyway just my .02
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:51 AM
Snyper708 Snyper708 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rural Buckeye Guy View Post
Ran across this but needed so qualified opinions. Thanks!

https://www.thetrace.org/2019/08/hom...tf-regulation/
If you attach it to a firearm and shoot through it you've committed a federal felony, no matter what cute name you give the device.
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Old 10-20-2019, 07:08 AM
273andme 273andme is online now
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I mean I wouldnt take it to some public range even knowing I have never been questioned any time I shoot my suppressors or SBRs, ID imagine FA might get some attention though.
Private property or range youd never get questioned, unless you are stupid and put some videos on the interwebz in that case you deserve the fines and prison time for being stupid.
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Old 10-20-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 273andme View Post
If you want a suppressor buy one pay the stamp get the warranty rather than build one pay the stamp and no warranty.

ATF isnt tracking NFA items. forms get scanned and lost int the void with everything else. you cant even get copies. Do they have the records sure all the way back to 1934. i think the only thing you can get hemmed up for is not having the paperwork YOU are supposed to have should some LEO ask for it and they probably wont know anything about the NFA.

biggest thing is going across state lines.

but if SHTF all that ATF NFA crap is going out the window anyway just my .02
There have been stories that the ATF has lost records, and havent seen any actual proof to that, but anything is possible. You should, of course, make sure you have your original copy of the paperwork in a safe place, just to CYA.

As far as who you "have" to show it to...my understanding has always been, only the ATF. Its technically a tax document. Not sure how that works now, now that the ATF is no longer "Treasury".

Local cops? By law, Im pretty sure you dont, but then again, how else are you to prove you paid the tax. This is after all, just a tax matter.

Suppressors are not a "state line" issue. As long as they are legal where youre going, its not an issue.


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I mean I wouldnt take it to some public range even knowing I have never been questioned any time I shoot my suppressors or SBRs, ID imagine FA might get some attention though.
Private property or range youd never get questioned, unless you are stupid and put some videos on the interwebz in that case you deserve the fines and prison time for being stupid.
Ive been in the NFA world since the early 80's. Never been questioned at a public range. By anyone in authority anyway. Lots of "experts" telling me what I had was illegal, and I couldnt have, or be shooting them though.

The biggest problem was finding a place to shoot the FA's. Many places wont allow it. Most (if they allowed you to shoot it at all, full or semi) wanted to see your stamp or they wouldnt allow the gun on the property.

Suppressors have never been an issue in that respect.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Snyper708 View Post
If you attach it to a firearm and shoot through it you've committed a federal felony, no matter what cute name you give the device.
One need not even attach it. Ever. Constructive intent.

Would still be the fine, the federal felony time, ALONG WITH the loss of ones 2A.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:40 AM
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I'm not willing to chance it.....


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Old 10-20-2019, 09:19 AM
recklessdriver recklessdriver is offline
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Originally Posted by Exarmyguy View Post
Who really cares what a government thinks . They dont listen to reason anyway. Unless you take pictures and post them online the feds dont no what you own. That being said most of these types of silencers arent that quiet. Even professional ones are disappointing.
I would disagree. We just ran one on a m1a scout. It was quiet enough to not using hearing protection with standard light ball. We compared it to the ar10 and you can definitely tell the difference.

I agree it's funny how so many here would gladly sell you out.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:56 AM
Snyper708 Snyper708 is offline
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One need not even attach it. Ever. Constructive intent.

Would still be the fine, the federal felony time, ALONG WITH the loss of ones 2A.
I believe if it truly has a valid use as something else it would be hard for them to convict you if it had never been used as a suppressor.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:29 PM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is online now
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Most good silencers lower the sound of discharge about 30 db. The first shot is always louder and follow up shots get quieter . Subsonic rounds and gun specific suppressors can squeeze a few more db's but its still not quiet. Knock off 30 db from a 140 db normal .223 blast is still loud.
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Old 10-20-2019, 04:24 PM
mike in pa mike in pa is offline
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
Local cops? By law, I'm pretty sure you don't, but then again, how else are you to prove you paid the tax. This is after all, just a tax matter.
Well in a number of states, NFA items like MGs and cans are illegal unless NFA reggied. So you would have to show the Form to prove legal registration.




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Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
I would disagree. We just ran one on a m1a scout. It was quiet enough to not using hearing protection with standard light ball. We compared it to the ar10 and you can definitely tell the difference.
I would disagree too. My 308 bolt rifle is hearing safe with standard ammo. 223/556 can be loud down range, but that's a velocity thing. Subsonic ammo is a different story. Two sounds, first the firing pin spring twang and second the bullet going through the paper target.
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:38 PM
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On my local range they would most likely just want to know where to purchase the parts.
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:50 PM
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Some civilized nations don't regulate suppressors, and in fact require them in some instances....but good old 'Merica, and the Hollywood spin on suppressors (oops, silencers in their world) have made it seem to the gen pop that only assassins and other evil people would use them.
In reality, you'd use one if you were polite , it will never change here...
Silencertalk is a great forum for people interested.

Countries that allow Suppressors without a permit:

Norway
France (for rimfire pistols)
Italy(? same as gun?)
Poland
New Zealand

Countries that allow Suppressors with a permit (not near as restrictive as the USA - in most of these countries - basically if you have a permit for a gun, you can get a suppressor too - as it is treated the same as a gun):

Germany
UK
Sweden
Finland
Hong Kong
Denmark
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Old 10-20-2019, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
On my local range they would most likely just want to know where to purchase the parts.
There are lots of videos on YouTube that show how to make suppressors. Some have links to commonly found parts in the description.
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Old 10-20-2019, 07:13 PM
Exarmyguy Exarmyguy is online now
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Well it may be hearing safe to some of you folks but I dont like loud music either or firing silenced guns without ear protection.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:08 PM
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Well it may be hearing safe to some of you folks but I dont like loud music either or firing silenced guns without ear protection.
I wouldnt call them 100% "hearing safe", but they can, and do come close in many circumstances. I normally still wear ear plugs when I shoot, suppressor or not, and especially when shooting a lot of rounds.

The suppressors I have, will allow me to shoot a 5.56 AR or a 9mm handgun, multiple times, in my carport, without plugs, and it doesnt affect me at all, where an unsuppressed .22LR in the same exact spot, will literally leave me with dead ears, for a couple of days.

Both seem to take the upper 90's percentile of the muzzle blast away, but there still is a felt "thump" with each shot.

While a couple of rounds are not a problem, there does seem to be a cumulative effect, and after around 50 rounds or so of 5.56 at the outdoor range or out in the yard, and I can "feel" my ears start to hurt. My ears arent "deadened" like they are without plugs, but they hurt all the same, and its noticeable.

I get the same result at work if Im on or around some machines for a long period of time and no plugs.
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:40 PM
Black Jack Black Jack is offline
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I don't see the issue. This article is written in a very negative light, but even in the article he says that building a suppressor at home is legal. All you need to do is submit a Form 1 and get your tax stamp.

No, this does not prevent somebody from illegally building one without going through the legal process, but that is not what he seems to be complaining about. What he is describing is not a hole in the regulations, but is a an alternative method to legally get a registered suppressor. The only difference is that you do not have to wait a year for the approval.
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