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Old 10-18-2019, 12:29 PM
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Default Fake CPR agents try to steal child



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These things should be made known far and wide. I think it's probably a lot more common than many people realize for criminals to pretend to be either police or some kind of government agent, because once they do that good people normally just totally submit to whatever demands the police make.

Years ago a college girl in Lincoln Nebraska was brutally raped and tortured over several hours and then finally killed. When one of the perpetrators confessed, he said that his partner had approached the girl in her car and told her he was a detective and wanted to ask her some questions, so she just did want he told her to do without question, when she could just as easily have driven or run away.

Anytime there is anything that seems suspicious about any government agent, do not just do what they tell you to do; tell them you are going to call the police and verify that they are who they claim to be. If they are legitimate, they will not mind you doing that, and it might save your life, or your kid's life. The mom in this story did the right thing.

Any police or lawyers on this forum might have better ideas on how to deal with this sort of thing.

https://www.kptv.com/mom-says-people...qnXCWC_06ycXZU

https://www.klkntv.com/story/4340134...police-officer

Edit: The grammar nazi in me just noticed that I put the letters CPR in the title to this thread instead of CPS as I had intended. I don't see any way to fix that, but maybe a mod can take care of it. No big deal though since no one seems to have noticed.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:46 PM
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My advice is not to open the door to Child Protective Services period. They are better at stealing children than the fraudsters are. Unless they are with the police and have a warrant, don't open the door. That'll prevent the fraudsters as well.

I have seen children pulled from homes for BS reasons, some of which aren't even related to the quality of parenting/child care. It's only a matter of time before they start looking a gun ownership and parental fitness, claiming its dangerous to have children in a home with so many firearms.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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Make government workers do their work correctly. Nobody comes into your house or onto your property without a warrant. Nobody takes a child without a uniformed officer carrying a warrant. (Which they hand to you and give you time to read!!!) Every bureaucratic agency must get a uniformed sworn officer to carry out arrests, confiscations and searches.

Don't go painting EVERY CPS activity with the same tar. There are truly ghastly excuses for parents out there. People torment and murder their own children all the time. Druggies starve and neglect them and whole families ignore and hide abusive incest. I've seen cases that would curl your toenails.

That said, most agencies are poorly funded and poorly administered by people who were once part of an at-risk or supervised family themselves. They tend to get pretty hefty God complexes, just like school administrators.

Be polite and quiet voiced, but firm and confident. Demand every t is crossed and every i dotted. Get a lawyer the moment they start getting snarky. The law is on your side! When they say "Do this or we'll get a warrant."as a threat, you say "Oh wonderful. Can you do that right away? I really want this done by the books. I'll call my lawyer and let him know." A warrant is not a threat. It's the only way it's done legally.

Where possible, video everything! They cannot tell you that you may not video them on your property. You may, even if they protest. Make them go get a cop and a warrant.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:56 PM
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having had to deal with CPS due to wife having a disgruntled ex employee that was friends with a CPS worker. Our crime, my wife having to go to store to deal with said ex employee while a kid(10-11) a few years back was sick at home. All I can say is absolutely insist on full documentation
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:22 PM
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I called CPS on a neighbor years ago. Their child (8 years old) came to our house with filthy clothes on, hungry and miserable at all times of the day. I could hear his parents fighting night and day. One night she was running naked while he chased her with a knife and then with the car down the street. I worked at the school and they told me he was rarely there. He told me that they had gone to Reno and they went into the casino while he stayed in a van alone. CPS called the dad and said they had a report of abuse and then told him who made the report. Next thing I know the dad is banging on my door and windows and threatening to kill me and my kids. My kids were scared and crying and I had to call the police. Even knowing that CPS still did nothing.
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:23 PM
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The rats are in the walls and thatís by design. Laura Silsby was arrested trying to take 35 Haitian orphans out of Haiti. Problem is they werenít orphans and when the authorities got suspicious and talked to the kids, the kids confirmed they werenít orphans.
Hillary Clinton violated state department rules to help her, John podesta went and secured her release from jail.

Now Laura silsby is married, her name now is Laura Gaylor and she has a high position in the company that issues advisories for the Amber Alert system.

I agree, never open the door for cps, hell, not for any government organization.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:23 PM
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The rats are in the walls and that’s by design. Laura Silsby was arrested trying to take 35 Haitian orphans out of Haiti. Problem is they weren’t orphans and when the authorities got suspicious and talked to the kids, the kids confirmed they weren’t orphans.
Hillary Clinton violated state department rules to help her, John podesta went and secured her release from jail.

Now Laura silsby is married, her name now is Laura Gaylor and she has a high position in the company that issues advisories for the Amber Alert system.

I agree, never open the door for cps, hell, not for any government organization.
Silsby was just another Baptist missionary out to rinse people for cash using the 3rd World Disaster theme. American Baptist congregations are perennial suckers for this type of scam and Silsby was going to take it a step further. Not a pedo but a vile opportunist.
The Baptist’s have a decent amount of leverage in some states so it’s not surprising HRC got involved and I would like to see actual proof John Podesta went and secured her release.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:30 PM
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Silby was just another Baptist missionary out to rinse people for cash using the 3rd World Disaster theme. American Baptist congregations are perennial suckers for this type of scam and Silsby was going to take it a step further. Not a pedo but vile opportunist.
The Baptistís have a decent amount of leverage in some states so itís not surprising HRC got involved and I would like to see actual proof John Podesta went and secured her release.
Either look it up or don't worry about it, it's not like anything anyone says, does, or shows you, will EVER change your liberal mind.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:41 PM
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Either look it up or don't worry about it, it's not like anything anyone says, does, or shows you, will EVER change your liberal mind.
The standard response for made up stuff. The truth is out there
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:43 PM
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The standard response for made up stuff. The truth is out there
no, I'm saying why bother showing you anything? You will discount, not believe, twist, etc. You are not worth bothering with...going forward. You are insane.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BabyBlue View Post
Make government workers do their work correctly. Nobody comes into your house or onto your property without a warrant. Nobody takes a child without a uniformed officer carrying a warrant. (Which they hand to you and give you time to read!!!) Every bureaucratic agency must get a uniformed sworn officer to carry out arrests, confiscations and searches.

Don't go painting EVERY CPS activity with the same tar. There are truly ghastly excuses for parents out there. People torment and murder their own children all the time. Druggies starve and neglect them and whole families ignore and hide abusive incest. I've seen cases that would curl your toenails.

That said, most agencies are poorly funded and poorly administered by people who were once part of an at-risk or supervised family themselves. They tend to get pretty hefty God complexes, just like school administrators.

Be polite and quiet voiced, but firm and confident. Demand every t is crossed and every i dotted. Get a lawyer the moment they start getting snarky. The law is on your side! When they say "Do this or we'll get a warrant."as a threat, you say "Oh wonderful. Can you do that right away? I really want this done by the books. I'll call my lawyer and let him know." A warrant is not a threat. It's the only way it's done legally.

Where possible, video everything! They cannot tell you that you may not video them on your property. You may, even if they protest. Make them go get a cop and a warrant.
We have several friends who foster, several who have adopted, my parents are with the Guardian Ad Litem program, my wife works for a company doing pediatric home health and weíve both been signed off by CPS as being able to babysit foster kids for the people we know who have them. Iíve got some experience with CPS workers and the judges who make the decisions.

The most ghastly thing about the system is that the worst parents will get their kids back despite having good families trying to adopt them, and the kids with a decent parent will be put through ringer for sometimes years at a time for no reason. These God forsaken government workers get it wrong every ****ing time and now Iíve decided that theyíre doing it on purpose to destroy children. Iím not going to go into detail because it just makes me angry and Iím on vacation right now, but Iíve seen enough from multiple county CPS systems that the piece of trash government workers involved had better hope for their sake that the rules of law never breaks down, because if it does I know at least a handful of people, decent people that the system BROKE, who are going to have a headhunting list.

And I hope theyíre successful.
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Old 10-19-2019, 12:12 PM
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My advice is not to open the door to Child Protective Services period. They are better at stealing children than the fraudsters are. Unless they are with the police and have a warrant, don't open the door. That'll prevent the fraudsters as well.

I have seen children pulled from homes for BS reasons, some of which aren't even related to the quality of parenting/child care. It's only a matter of time before they start looking a gun ownership and parental fitness, claiming its dangerous to have children in a home with so many firearms.
ONE NIGHT I get a call to meet a CPS worker for a child pickup.
In Michigan you can do that one of 2 ways.
1- The officer sees a situation that requires an immediate removal for health or safety reasons
or
2- the CPS worker has a court ordered removal issued by a probate judge who has heard the details and issues the order.

I arrive and meet with the CPS who fills my ears with the horrors I am going to find. She tells me to not listen to the BS the mom is going to give just grab the child and go. I ask to see the order. "Ahhh, I don't have one., the judge left before I could get one but you can take the child."
THIS immediately sends up red flags. It is a Fri night. IF I pull the kid, because of the weekend the mom won't be able to do anything until Monday, PLUS it also means sometime the next day I will have to work OT filing more paper with the weekend magistrate.

Knock on the door, a sober, young woman answers the door, not the mom.
She says the mom is attending her classes at the local Jr College. She is babysitting with her boyfriend who is also stone cold sober. We go into the house, it is a 1st floor apt. It is spotless. There is food in the fridge. There are all sorts of diapers and baby supplies next to the crib. The baby is clean, apparently free of rash or other issues and sleeping peacefully. NO drugs or alcohol visible anywhere.

The CPS worker insists it is an unsafe environment and also ORDERS me to remove the child. I tell her "No." And advise her to use their emergency procedure to contact the on call magistrate and SHE can sign the papers and make the arrangement. She says if I don't remove she will contact my superiors and make a complaint I endangered the child. I ask to use the phone, and call direct into the shift commander and hand over the phone.
The CPS worker.. who just happens to be black, goes on a rampage about how derelict I am and it will be my and the departments fault when something bad happens. She hands me the phone. I have known the shift commander forever. I tell him, his house doesn't look this good or is not even close to being as clean.

While this conversation is going on the mom arrives. She is clean, sober, and carrying an arm load of books from school. I find out the CPS worker used to date the mom's present boyfriend.
CPS worker says it has nothing to do with it and she again orders me to take the child. I order her out of the house or I will arrest her for criminal trespass. She says she will have my job. I tell her she will never pass the psychological testing.

We write up each other. I didn't lose my job. She was given a demotion to a desk job.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:19 PM
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There are something like 800,000 kids missing in this country at any given time.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:10 PM
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There are something like 800,000 kids missing in this country at any given time.
That is completely terrifying
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Old 10-20-2019, 11:18 AM
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These things should be made known far and wide. I think it's probably a lot more common than many people realize for criminals to pretend to be either police or some kind of government agent, because once they do that good people normally just totally submit to whatever demands the police make.

Years ago a college girl in Lincoln Nebraska was brutally raped and tortured over several hours and then finally killed. When one of the perpetrators confessed, he said that his partner had approached the girl in her car and told her he was a detective and wanted to ask her some questions, so she just did want he told her to do without question, when she could just as easily have driven or run away.

Anytime there is anything that seems suspicious about any government agent, do not just do what they tell you to do; tell them you are going to call the police and verify that they are who they claim to be. If they are legitimate, they will not mind you doing that, and it might save your life, or your kid's life. The mom in this story did the right thing.

Any police or lawyers on this forum might have better ideas on how to deal with this sort of thing.

https://www.kptv.com/mom-says-people...qnXCWC_06ycXZU

https://www.klkntv.com/story/4340134...police-officer
I've never had any problem with people calling dispatch/911 to confirm my identity. Especially if I'm pounding on your door. Takes the edge off for me too. Guy who's got a meth lab or a dead body in there I don't know about and intends to ambush me isn't likely to be having a friendly chat with dispatch and gives me more control and less surprises about how we meet. Plus I can get your phone number and a more solid ID.

This also brings up... I'm am ******* to people who put blue lights on their car. At least that's how they see it. It's illegal here, but people do it all the freaking time. Especially in the city. No blue lights on a vehicle at all. But then people dress up their vehicles with tons of colored accent lighting, etc. Doesn't take a lot for someone to start flashing that accent lighting to make someone think they're an emergency vehicle. Especially when you can vary the color to alternate red and blue.

Wouldn't be a major issue if emergency vehicles were still only using the big bar on the top for emergency lights. But these days it's all accent lighting scattered all over the vehicle, just like people's decorative stuff. And the public knows that so they don't need to see much blue light before they freak out, start driving stupid, and maybe even pull over for it.
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Old 10-20-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BabyBlue View Post
Make government workers do their work correctly. Nobody comes into your house or onto your property without a warrant. Nobody takes a child without a uniformed officer carrying a warrant. (Which they hand to you and give you time to read!!!) Every bureaucratic agency must get a uniformed sworn officer to carry out arrests, confiscations and searches.

Don't go painting EVERY CPS activity with the same tar. There are truly ghastly excuses for parents out there. People torment and murder their own children all the time. Druggies starve and neglect them and whole families ignore and hide abusive incest. I've seen cases that would curl your toenails.

That said, most agencies are poorly funded and poorly administered by people who were once part of an at-risk or supervised family themselves. They tend to get pretty hefty God complexes, just like school administrators.

Be polite and quiet voiced, but firm and confident. Demand every t is crossed and every i dotted. Get a lawyer the moment they start getting snarky. The law is on your side! When they say "Do this or we'll get a warrant."as a threat, you say "Oh wonderful. Can you do that right away? I really want this done by the books. I'll call my lawyer and let him know." A warrant is not a threat. It's the only way it's done legally.

Where possible, video everything! They cannot tell you that you may not video them on your property. You may, even if they protest. Make them go get a cop and a warrant.
Just to be clear, an actual LEO isn't always going to need a signed order for a child. I can't speak for every jurisdiction, but generally an officer can take TEMPORARY custody of a child based on a low standard. There's a lot of stuff an LEO can do without a warrant, but it's all going to be very temporary things and they'll have to return/free the seized person or object if they don't confirm their suspicion and get a judge's approval within a certain time frame.

Don't try to shoot it out with a cop over a 15 minute precautionary detainment.

But yeah, if CPS wants to take a child you're fully justified to ask for an LEO to come and verify/supervise it. CPS isn't law enforcement and they're not doing things how they're supposed to if they didn't come with a police escort to begin with.
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:13 PM
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But yeah, if CPS wants to take a child you're fully justified to ask for an LEO to come and verify/supervise it. CPS isn't law enforcement and they're not doing things how they're supposed to if they didn't come with a police escort to begin with.
Government workers like the CPS are exactly why I never open my door to a knock. If it's really serious I would rather they breach it than willingly open it myself. Typically I will go out the other door and lock that then put the keys on the porch. Then walk around the house and engage in conversation with the knocker.

Self important government employees are the worst people to deal with. They are so positive that they are in the right to do a lot of things they actually can't do. But I know the laws in my state and can counter them most times.
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Old 10-21-2019, 07:59 AM
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Government workers like the CPS are exactly why I never open my door to a knock. If it's really serious I would rather they breach it than willingly open it myself. Typically I will go out the other door and lock that then put the keys on the porch. Then walk around the house and engage in conversation with the knocker.

Self important government employees are the worst people to deal with. They are so positive that they are in the right to do a lot of things they actually can't do. But I know the laws in my state and can counter them most times.
I rarely answer the door to people I don't know. I'll open a window and ask if I can help them. This startles most of them and I tell them I don't open the door for strangers. Conversations from there are very short so far.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:32 PM
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When I was a teen, I recall my youth pastor asking me to pray about a situation a family was in. The parents didn't attend the church, I assume the kids must have a little bit (I didn't know who they were).

This was years and years ago, and he didn't tell me much. But I guess the family had been having some problems. Not child abuse problems, just the kids being very rebellious and the parents (I think maybe it was a single mother?) having a difficult time dealing with it, and she sought help.

Anyway, CPS got involved, and I guess after talking to them, she volunteered to let them have the kids for a few days (maybe a week... I don't recall). This was their idea, not hers. The idea was to give everyone a break, time to cool down, and then they can get back together and start working things out.

But then they never gave the kids back, wouldn't tell her where they were. I never heard any more about it.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:13 PM
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I am having an issue with my husband. He burned himself while drunk and refuses to see a doctor. I am doing what I can but it is upsetting. He is difficult.

It was suggested to me I contact APS and "get some help" but the above story is exactly why I do not want to do that.

I do not want the system unless I absolutely cannot avoid it. For one, I know the caseworker would freak over the cats. And his diet. But I have the food, I offer the food, he eats a garbage snack instead. Like I said, frustrating.

He is utterly screwed if something happens to me.
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