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Old 10-13-2019, 08:56 PM
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This is the second time this sort of thing has happened. The last guy didn’t die though. This is a training issue for sure and needs to be addressed. I don’t think it’s racism or malice. But it is a problem with police training.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:13 PM
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Where do some of you live that you have to worry about snipers?
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies View Post
This is the second time this sort of thing has happened. The last guy didn’t die though. This is a training issue for sure and needs to be addressed. I don’t think it’s racism or malice. But it is a problem with police training.
Yes we had a case here in SC. The homeowner had his gun. The LEO saw it through one of those side windows that run each side and on top of many front doors. So the LEO shot the homeowner one in the groin and once in the chest. The victim survived.

IMO any LEO better make sure a person in a home is not the homeowner.

Having said that we must protect ourselves from idiots. Make sure no one sees your gun until you are ready to use it and take cover.

As for that type door I cannot make up my mind. There is something to be said for seeing out and getting a clearer idea of who and how many are at your door. On the other if the glass had been frosted or stained the gun would not have been seen.

If I was the victim I cannot honestly say what I would do.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cujet View Post
Too much of this is going on. From people being red-flagged for no reason, to cops shooting before understanding the situation.

40 years ago, cops did not shoot everyone in sight, and the family dog was not at risk. Things have changed, and not for the better.

Let's look at it from a completely different point of view. Today, law enforcement uses all sorts of technology to solve crimes. From facial recognition camera systems and the requirements for ID's to liberal use of SWAT teams and NSA data mining. YET, the clearance rate (solved crimes) remains UNIMPROVED. In other words, the restrictions have not and do not help.

Today, we concentrate on officer safety, while the rest of us exist with ever increasing risk. As cops know they have no duty to protect us, and they don't.
40 YEARS AGO the hiring standards were wwwwwaaaayyyyyyy different and the pool of candidates were entirely different creatures.

When I started LE, ALL my FTOs were veterans of WWII or Korea. just about 95% of all the new recruits were veterans and a LOT of them were with combat experience..(thank you VN war). All of the candidates grew up in a world where fist fights in or out of school while not a good thing also did not require suspension, removal from school and psychological counseling. The male youths grew up in a harsher world of full contact sports meaning full contact.
Candidates who knew which end of a gun the bullet came from were looked on as a good thing, not someone to be refused because (he likes guns)
They were hiring cops that had more life experience because of the times.

Now they hire people who not only were never in service, they have people who have never been in a fight in their lives and even though they "fight" in academies.. they don't really.
So you get people without any real life experience out there terrified because they don't know that if someone hits you you not only don't die, you also don't break and if you bleed it is usually just a little.
THey have neutered hiring standards so anyone with a pulse and breathing can qualify if their IQ is barely above room temperature. .. because they have to be all inclusive and hiring cops like they used to was"racist" because some other folks couldn't compete in the old ways.

I was at the tail end of the "good years" and saw what new hires were becoming. there were departments that favored college hours and eventually under new rules hired people who could barely read or write at 4th grade level. The City of Detroit got so bad they had people assigned to the precincts whose only job was to rewrite the reports from their AA officers so they wouldn't be laughed out of the prosecutors office or the courts. . My own department in its haste to cross any color questions never did a deep background a new hire until after he had gone to the police academy and been on the street for almost a year, until his prints came back from the FBI and found he was using an alias and wanted for rape in a different state.

and it is gonna get worse unless things change.. Think of the new up and coming snowflakes.. wearing a badge...time to become a hermit.

Just saying the reason they didn't happen back then, was the officers WERE different.
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:37 PM
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And I thought FWPD was still on edge after going to the wrong house and shooting and killing a man in his own garage a few years back...

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/06/25/...ed-by-officer/
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Old 10-13-2019, 09:58 PM
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Updated news article.
They were playing a video game.

And the neighbor had checked the house first, then called police.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/u...jefferson.html
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Where do some of you live that you have to worry about snipers?
Its a joke.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
Saw that on the news this morning. It was reported the cop shot her through the window. I think it was closed. They found a gun, but most likely after they entered the home. I think that cop may be in some trouble..
I think this shooting, and some of the other recent ones, may be blowback from the crimp on recruitment the Obama years provided.

There's only so many refrains of "cops are evil" that a department can withstand before recruiting is impacted. Thus, recruiting standards may be loosened.

Of course, I have no idea if this is the case here, but I have concerns looking at the similarities in recent troubling police shootings.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post

40 YEARS AGO the hiring standards were wwwwwaaaayyyyyyy different and the pool of candidates were entirely different creatures.

When I started LE, ALL my FTOs were veterans of WWII or Korea. just about 95% of all the new recruits were veterans and a LOT of them were with combat experience..(thank you VN war). All of the candidates grew up in a world where fist fights in or out of school while not a good thing also did not require suspension, removal from school and psychological counseling. The male youths grew up in a harsher world of full contact sports meaning full contact.
Candidates who knew which end of a gun the bullet came from were looked on as a good thing, not someone to be refused because (he likes guns)
They were hiring cops that had more life experience because of the times.

Now they hire people who not only were never in service, they have people who have never been in a fight in their lives and even though they "fight" in academies.. they don't really.
So you get people without any real life experience out there terrified because they don't know that if someone hits you you not only don't die, you also don't break and if you bleed it is usually just a little.
THey have neutered hiring standards so anyone with a pulse and breathing can qualify if their IQ is barely above room temperature. .. because they have to be all inclusive and hiring cops like they used to was"racist" because some other folks couldn't compete in the old ways.

I was at the tail end of the "good years" and saw what new hires were becoming. there were departments that favored college hours and eventually under new rules hired people who could barely read or write at 4th grade level. The City of Detroit got so bad they had people assigned to the precincts whose only job was to rewrite the reports from their AA officers so they wouldn't be laughed out of the prosecutors office or the courts. . My own department in its haste to cross any color questions never did a deep background a new hire until after he had gone to the police academy and been on the street for almost a year, until his prints came back from the FBI and found he was using an alias and wanted for rape in a different state.

and it is gonna get worse unless things change.. Think of the new up and coming snowflakes.. wearing a badge...time to become a hermit.

Just saying the reason they didn't happen back then, was the officers WERE different.
Save the racist BS. Almost all of the cops in these outrageous shootings have been white. Amber Guyger, Michael Slager, Sean Groubert, the cops in AZ who shot that poor pest control guy while he was crawling on the ground, the inept corrupt cops who shot Erick Scott in Las Vegas, the cop in this particular incident, and the list goes on.
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Just saying the reason they didn't happen back then, was the officers WERE different.
Indeed. And that really needs to change. I'm angered and disgusted beyond belief with the police....again.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:03 AM
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This is a society problem. We have pushed cops into the fear corner.

You just fulfilled the first rule of law enforcement: Make sure when your shift is over, you go home alive.

Malone (Sean Connery), in the Untouchables 1987.

Now we've made the entire nation into a mob war because we expect cops to intrude completely into our lives.

What are cops worried about facing? Domestic disputes and traffic stops. Just jam every cop into our grills in order to police our lives, instead of letting us sort out our own crap and protect what we own, like we are supposed to.

Hello, 2A? It maybe should be seen as a 2 way street. Protect yourself, dammit.

Quit putting cops so deep downrange that they must act like urban combat troops.

Yeah, I think this cop screwed the pooch, and it is his responsibility. But society has manufactured the need for this. Welfare checks? Rule one should include the use of a cordon and bullhorn, not an armed assault. The very 1st incidence of a "swatting" should have changed procedure nation-wide. Instead we have police chiefs explaining the legitimacy of the shooting, when the cops should have never been stuck into it in the first place.

So now we must punish the cop and the next one and the next one until someone finally says why are our men in that situation in the first place? Maybe the solution is to handcuff the police chief after the announcement and make him stand beside his officer at the defendant's table. Let them both ride the lightning. I promise that things will change fast and the nanny state politicians will be told to **** off with their intrusion ideas.
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
This is a society problem. We have pushed cops into the fear corner.

You just fulfilled the first rule of law enforcement: Make sure when your shift is over, you go home alive.

Malone (Sean Connery), in the Untouchables 1987.

Now we've made the entire nation into a mob war because we expect cops to intrude completely into our lives.

What are cops worried about facing? Domestic disputes and traffic stops. Just jam every cop into our grills in order to police our lives, instead of letting us sort out our own crap and protect what we own, like we are supposed to.

Hello, 2A? It maybe should be seen as a 2 way street. Protect yourself, dammit.

Quit putting cops so deep downrange that they must act like urban combat troops.

Yeah, I think this cop screwed the pooch, and it is his responsibility. But society has manufactured the need for this. Welfare checks? Rule one should include the use of a cordon and bullhorn, not an armed assault. The very 1st incidence of a "swatting" should have changed procedure nation-wide. Instead we have police chiefs explaining the legitimacy of the shooting, when the cops should have never been stuck into it in the first place.

So now we must punish the cop and the next one and the next one until someone finally says why are our men in that situation in the first place? Maybe the solution is to handcuff the police chief after the announcement and make him stand beside his officer at the defendant's table. Let them both ride the lightning. I promise that things will change fast and the nanny state politicians will be told to **** off with their intrusion ideas.
It’s a training and accountability problem It’s not a society thing. And let’s be real some of this was going on long ago, we just didn’t have the cameras and other technology to see it. The cops wluls have just been able to cover it up.
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:28 AM
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I wonder if the video game they were playing contributed to the problem.

What if the police yelled from the front door and got no answer because they were wearing headsets?

What if the game was also playing the audio real loud on a room speaker?

What if the game was some sort of violent shooting game and the cop thought it was real? and the lady was holding a controller shaped like a gun and held like a gun?

Some of these video games can be very realistic. And players can become so immersed that they think hearing police commands is coming from the TV?

Just trying to make some sense of it.
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Old 10-14-2019, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme11 View Post
I wonder if the video game they were playing contributed to the problem.

What if the police yelled from the front door and got no answer because they were wearing headsets?

What if the game was also playing the audio real loud on a room speaker?

What if the game was some sort of violent shooting game and the cop thought it was real? and the lady was holding a controller shaped like a gun and held like a gun?

Some of these video games can be very realistic. And players can become so immersed that they think hearing police commands is coming from the TV?

Just trying to make some sense of it.

If any of that happened, they wouldn't have released heavily edited bodycam footage, and those points would have been front and center in the news reels. I just saw a clip on this on my local news. The chief or whoever said "he didn't identify himself as a cop", and that was basically it. The clip the news showed was about 10 seconds.....him creeping around the window, yelling 'show me your hands' and instantly shooting.
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Old 10-14-2019, 06:48 AM
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IMO the police have no business shooting into a home when they can easily contain who ever is in the home until backup arrives. The idea the LEO exposed himself to a pointed gun while on the outside shows a lack of training and candidate screening.

I am and have always been a big supporter of police. My grandfather was a county sheriff. One thing he was fond of saying: "Anyone can be a law enforcement officer it takes a man to be a peace officer."
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:40 AM
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News update this morning. The video released is heavily edited. The police did not announce themselves nor did the shooting officer before opening fire. The officer shot through a closed window and the slatted blinds were partially closed. They did find a gun in the room that she was in when shot, but have not said whether she was holding it or not. They are interviewing the officer today and it seems the focus is why he didn't announce himself before firing.
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
News update this morning. The video released is heavily edited. The police did not announce themselves nor did the shooting officer before opening fire. The officer shot through a closed window and the slatted blinds were partially closed. They did find a gun in the room that she was in when shot, but have not said whether she was holding it or not. They are interviewing the officer today and it seems the focus is why he didn't announce himself before firing.
Thanks for the update. As tempted as I am I will reserve further comment.
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:50 AM
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No the whole body cam was released unedited
Watch it and you will see a real quick shooting
Too quick
Done dirty to my eyes
Something must have been edited since the one I saw didn't say this at all:

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Real quick
"Put down the gun" - bang immediately
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:50 AM
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After thinking about the video I saw this morning, it is possible that the police partially closed the blinds after the fact, but I think that's not likely. That would in affect be tampering with evidence. Oh, they said the victim was 28 years old.
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:59 AM
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SC Law:
(A) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into a dwelling house, other building, structure, or enclosure regularly occupied by persons. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(B) It is unlawful for a person to discharge or cause to be discharged unlawfully firearms at or into any vehicle, aircraft, watercraft, or other conveyance, device, or equipment while it is occupied. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
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