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Old 10-14-2019, 12:49 PM
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PeterEnergy PeterEnergy is offline
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Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
Looks bad to pull out without a crushing victory, but we’re not allowed to actually make the moves required to have a crushing victory.
And suffer the consequences from "limited" war.
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Old 10-14-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Some of the Syrian Government forces had been ordered by Assad to fight with the Kurds
Russia is on both sides of this
Supporting Turkey and their Syrian Militia tip of the spear
And supporting Assad
Crazy for Trump to set this off
Now many GOP Senators are not happy, really really not happy
Super stupid move by Trump
I am still going to vote for Trump if he is pn the ballot
He seems determined to screw all this progress up

So, what is your proposal? Fight against a NATO country?
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:11 PM
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The United States and Turkey are both members of NATO. Therefore allies, and promise not to fight against one another. Historically, there have been *issues* with Turkey, but since it's a signatory and never been kicked out (for various reasons, especially strategic), are still entitled [by treaty, upon request] to defense/assistance by other NATO countries
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/nato_countries.htm

By pulling out of Syria, U.S. troops were not put in a position of helping one ally fight against another ally. Or far, far worse. Communication isn't always perfect/timely, betrayal on the ground (as opposed to by TPTB) causes horrific problems, and it would be the absolute worst if U.S. troops ended up inadvertently fighting against one another

*Assuming* there was a courtesy call from Turkey warning of its intentions, the U.S. government was able to avoid having to pick one ally over the other, or get fired on by one or both allies, by withdrawing.

This whole situation stinks for so many reasons, and not just for those that have been brought up on SB

Corollary to the enemy-of-my-enemy, a friend isn't [necessarily] the friend of a friend
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
So, what is your proposal? Fight against a NATO country?

Ya posted while i was writing
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Old 10-14-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
All I can say is, I don't believe in doing business with those willing to lie.
With islam it is a part of their koran to lie.
Why not call out Trump for kissing Turkish and Saudi ass?
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Old 10-14-2019, 02:31 PM
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The Bush/Cheney "regime change" plan might have started out with the moral high ground but has not worked out well for anyone but foreign despots and America defense contractors. Look at Syria, if we had minded our own business instead of pouring money into supporting anti-Assad rebels, many of whom were Jihadists, Assad would have crushed that rebellion in two months and a million dead people would still be alive.
I am glad to see finally a president who does not accept these outcomes and is willing to take the criticism of not defending the "little good guys," as we did in Syria. If this means the kurds and Turks have to either work out their issues or kill one million of their people, let them do it without American help.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:20 PM
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If you think the Kurds have been abandon then go over there and help them. We had 50 men there and got advanced intel of the Turkish attack. If you say we abandon them then you mean those 50 man abandon them. They followed lawful orders. You are under no such orders. If you believe we abandon them you should be on your way. Else you are a coward and hypocrite. What the media want to see is 50 US service men killed so they can grandstand from the newsroom.
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:37 PM
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Would Trump get the blame if he left our troops there to be slaughtered by the Turks,
or would our brave generals sitting behind their desks at the Pentagon take the hit for it?
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
Are Kurds Christian or Muslim?
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
Kurds are Christians. More accurately put it is the Kurdish Christians that are under attack. There are Kurds that are Muslims. Muslim Kurds that tolerate Christians are under attack fro fellow Muslims because they are working against the teachings of Muhammad.
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Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
Maybe you could ask individual Kurds instead of again trying to get everyone together under a single group label. It'd be the same as me asking: are Americans Catholic or Atheists? Guess the individual doesn't count in your reasoning. All for the good of the party .

They are almost all mooselimbs, don't let the feels good crowd lead you astray.


https://thekurdishproject.org/histor...stan-religion/

https://www.christiancentury.org/art...re-iraqi-kurds
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:21 PM
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The Kurds of the PKK in Turkey are Communists.
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by puttster View Post
The Kurds of the PKK in Turkey are Communists.
Not all Germans were Nazis either. So your point is?
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Old 10-14-2019, 04:57 PM
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This was in regards to the question what religion are the Kurds. The PKK is one of a dozen or more Kurd social organizations.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by puttster View Post
This was in regards to the question what religion are the Kurds. The PKK is one of a dozen or more Kurd social organizations.
Stay focused, pudd; I know it's hard but try for just a minute. You specifically stated the Kurds of the PKK are Communists. Now you bring religious affiliation back into it. In Nazi Germany, there were more Germans who were not members of the German social organization know as the Nazi Party than there were members. In spite of there NOT being an official religion under the Nazi Party, you still had a lot of Germans who did not give up their religious beliefs simply because Der Fuehrer said so.

And yet, a LOT of Germans died because of the misgivings of a few. Why? Because the Allies didn't differentiate, that's why. The Turks aren't differentiating either.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:26 PM
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Kurds have been our allies since Iraq used WMDs on them in late 80? Were I to go to the Middle east as a mercenary I would go and fight with the Kurds.
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Old 10-14-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by makobytes View Post
Long term. The concept and ability of continuing to be the worlds police force, will have to come to an end. Way too much blood and treasure has been wasted, fighting in regional conflicts far from home. $22 trillion dollars in debt and climbing, it is spinning out of control and may quickly become self defeating (historically, this is how many great empires have collapsed). I am not an economics expert, but I have had economics 101 in college. At some point, when the rising national debt becomes untenable, the government will have to devalue the dollar and inflation will skyrocket, (inflation helps the government to pay off debt) that in turn will diminish our own standard of living. We were warned by our forefathers that were instrumental in creating the U.S. government, "beware of and avoid foreign entanglements". Now we are entangled around the world and things always become very painful for all involved when the U.S. tries to extract itself. Time to mind our own borders, and let the world settle their own issues. Not to say we cannot use our national voice and economics in an attempt to influence outcomes. But, no more blood and treasure or boots on the ground. If you follow the money, I am sure that the interest in continuing to interject ourselves into regional conflicts can be traced back to the military industrial complex and the politicians that receive funding and support from the same. It is painful to see, what is happening with the Kurds, but I support any effort to get our military out of the endless "tribal" conflicts that have been going on for centuries and will continue to occur regardless if our troops stay there or not.
As I've been saying for years, we can no longer afford to police the world, especially when it comes to helping countries that do not share our values. We need to sit back and let miscreant countries slaughter each other. In the long run, the world will be a much better place.
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Old 10-14-2019, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
Why not call out Trump for kissing Turkish and Saudi ass?

did you object to obammy doing it?
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Old 10-14-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
Kurds are Christians. More accurately put it is the Kurdish Christians that are under attack. There are Kurds that are Muslims. Muslim Kurds that tolerate Christians are under attack fro fellow Muslims because they are working against the teachings of Muhammad.


99.9999 % of Kurds are Muslim.

In fact Kurds have been burning Christian farmlands and homes in northern Syria for the past few months.

....kurds....Christians....lol....
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Old 10-14-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Helion View Post
99.9999 % of Kurds are Muslim.

In fact Kurds have been burning Christian farmlands and homes in northern Syria for the past few months.

....kurds....Christians....lol....
About 75% of Kurds are Sunni Muslim.. The rest are a mix of Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Yarsanism, Yazidism, Alevism, and Judaism.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are technically all forms of Abrahamic religion with all of them following and worshiping the God of Abraham. The one thing they all have in common is that they have all three tended to be rather violent belief systems throughout history.
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Old 10-14-2019, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post

About 75% of Kurds are Sunni Muslim.. The rest are a mix of Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Yarsanism, Yazidism, Alevism, and Judaism..
The Kurds in Turkey, the PKK, are communists, aka athiests. IDK if that is classified as a religion though.
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Old 10-15-2019, 12:08 AM
PA_Robert PA_Robert is offline
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Originally Posted by PalmettoTree View Post
There is more to this strategy than meets the eye. IMO I am not saying it is good or bad but I believe President Trump wants our troops out of the middle.

What I do know part of the plan had better be to get Turkey out of NATO.
I've been trying to figure this out also. I think you're onto something.

Our troops out of the ME..screw the never ending wars of the muslims. Let them kill each other.

Turkey, which has proven itself an enemy of western ways, the USA and many other regional ethnic groups..will suffer. Not by American troops on the ground but by sanctions.

If/When NATO supports Turkey, because they are a member and Russia moves in to support the Kurds, it proves how useless NATO is. Gives Trump option/choices to support/withdraw or somewhere in between for NATO.

If/When other NATO countries support Turkey..it proves how useless the EU and their current politics and beliefs are.

If the UN doesn't condemn Turkey..because it is a NATO country..therefore enlightened like the other NATO/EU trash....it proves how useless the UN is.



A lot of dominoes and most importantly is that our troops are out.
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