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Old 10-20-2019, 04:58 PM
thess02 thess02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Still lead not recommended for G5s

But, again many people are shooting lead in Glocks
Watch for leading
Know what you are doing
No problem
I have shot lead in a Glock 30SF for years. It leads less than my Gold Cup actually.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:05 PM
Armtx77 Armtx77 is offline
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Originally Posted by thess02 View Post
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Still lead not recommended for G5s

But, again many people are shooting lead in Glocks
Watch for leading
Know what you are doing
No problem
I have shot lead in a Glock 30SF for years. It leads less than my Gold Cup actually.
Polygonal rifling, not surprising.
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Old 10-21-2019, 10:33 AM
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svxak47 svxak47 is offline
3 more years of this?
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Originally Posted by DG23 View Post
For real... If SHTF and I am limited to a 9mm it will be a full size Beretta with 17rnd mags + 1 in the chamber. 18 chances to deal with the problem before needing to reload...
And in SHTF it wont matter what caliber or gun it is....as long as it shoots and stops the threat Ill be happy to have it
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:25 PM
whirlibird whirlibird is offline
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Right now I don't have a 9mm, so there's that.

But back when I used to roll around with a badge, I got the displeasure to shoot a lot of injured animals and got to test out a lot of different guns and ammunition. The department required a report for every round of department ammo expended, but my stuff in the county, no one cared.

The best ammo that I found for the 9mm was the 127gr Winchester Ranger.
Best compromise of velocity and weight, and a fair approximation of the old Remington 125gr .357 Mag with the scalloped bullet.

In the cheap jhp category, the Federal 9BP and the Winchester 115 Silvertip (yes the dreaded standard velocity stuff) actually performed well. The Silvertip expanded better.

I tried the 147gr loads but found them lacking in various ways, my Beretta 92 wouldn't feed any of the jhp's, and the velocity was unimpressive at best.

Personally I prefer a larger, heavier bullet, but for defense I also tend to stick with the mid-weight options for those same choices.
In the .40, I prefer the 150-155gr bullets.
In the 10mm, again the 150-155gr bullets. But I will admit a soft spot for the 175gr Silvertip, it is not the same bullet as the old 9mm.
In the .45, here is where I swap a bit, I prefer the Federal 230gr HST or HydraShok. Yes the standard velocity version. The +P is good but I have seen a few issues with a normally reliable gun starting to have hiccups when the velocity is bumped.
I will admit that the old Federal Hi-Shok .45's were one of the loads that I used and got better results than I had expected. I would have no problem carrying or depending on them.

Back to the 9mm, and the rest in general.
I will not carry ball or flat nose bullets normally when a hollow point is available, as shooting results and autopsies have shown that when the cavity fills, you effectively have a flat nose bullet, but at least you had the possibility of expansion, which you don't get with a non-expanding design.

One thing that you don't get with the solids, in the autopsy report are words like macerated heart, significant tearing and hemorrhage. These effects generally come with velocity and of course, bullet design to match.
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Old 10-22-2019, 08:47 PM
Bluesman60 Bluesman60 is offline
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Lot of knowledgeable Pistoleros on this forum, but I say if you have a gun that eats up any ammo you put through it then you can go with the cheaper ammo for SHTF stock pile.
I had a AMT hardballer 45 acp that only fed ball ammo, I regret getting rid of it cause I could have had a good gunsmith work on the ramp to feed jacketed hollow point.
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Old 10-23-2019, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by HappyinID View Post
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
He had 5 holes going in and 5 holes leaving. He had intestines hit, one lung, stomach .. he was pretty messed up. He would have died according to the docs if he had made his getaway to seek revenge. The blood bubble in his mouth sort of gave it away. Why I am not a big fan of 9mms especially with HB.

Basically, being able to hit well is the most important thing, but also honestly not everyone can practice to where they can be Auric Goldfinger with his .25 " I shoot at the right eye Mr. Bond, and I never miss."

Shot placement skill is great , it is absolute and maybe a microbial fraction size of folks on the planet can deliver that perfect placement when it really matters... so how do you give yourself more fudge factor, bigger diameter and heavier bullets, translating to more energy giving a better chance at coming out on the successful end.

I saw people dead and dying from just about every round found in the US and some were impressive, such as a 12ga slug at the base of the skull . That was a one shot stopper.

Conversely a buddy on another department shot a rather large African gentleman just above the nose from ohhhhhh about 3 feet as the same gentleman was ready to cut him from crotch to neck with a straight razor. The guy flopped onto his back, my friend rady to call for dead animal pickup when he noticed the "dead guy" was still breathing. A trip to the hospital confirmed he was not only alive, but he was much better than he should have been. The .38spcl 158gr rnl had run between the skull and the scalp and lodged at the back of the head, flattened out like a quarter. THe ER put a bandaid front and back and sent him to jail.

Another bud , a sgt in another jurisdiction put 5 .357 145gr HPs into a guy at a Dom Vi. All inside the 8 ring, at about 12 feet. THe guy dropped his shotgun and turned and went back into his house. While ES Team was being summoned, the shootee was feeling some discomfort and decided he should seek medical attention. He walked back out and gave himself up. This over the span of about 20 minutes. The guy had 10 holes in him, 5 in the front and 5 out the back. ALL that energy was lost due to over penetration. HE LIVED.

If there are other options out there... I see no reason to bet my life on a .3anything when I can have a .45. Just prudent planning.
Bowing to your phenomenal experience in shooting investigations, I'm still not quite sure about your criticisms of over penetration in "3" calibers vs "4" calibers, since the 4's are quite capable of through and through penetration. .45 ball in particular, commonly will do just that, often after glancing off bone. I have seen it personally, and read many reports of it's similar performance.

But the over penetration issue, just isn't. No additional damage is done by pistol projectiles remaining in a human's body rather than exiting. There is no "energy dump" or any other magic process done by pistol bullets. That's a myth. They poke holes. That's it.


Your correct about a bullet exiting not reducing energy.

Their is “energy dumped “ BUT the energy is dumped regardless of the projectile exits or not. The more energy coming in, the more transfer of that energy to the body. It’s the bullet entering that dumps the energy not staying and not leaving.

The issue with over penetration is failure to expand and of course killing the guy behind the target. Or down the street.

I saw a YouTuber shoot very large 700 grain projectiles with a 500 Winchester revolver. They WAY over penetrated in gel. But they expanded and made huge holes. Anybody shot center mass with this would have been stopped. It would have killed them skinned them and stuffed them.
Of course with that recoil you better not miss the first time you won’t get a follow up.
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Old 10-23-2019, 11:09 AM
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I typically use ball ammo for practice. Doesn't really matter if it's reloads or factory ammo as long as it runs through the pistol and closely approximates what I intend to carry defensively. Which more often than not is either Hornady critical defense or CCI gold dot.

Flat point bullets (truncated cones, SWC's etc.) do have an edge over ball ammo (round point bullets), whether that edge creates an advantage (or not) is any ones guess. It may, depending on the circumstances then again it may not. I buy the best defensive ammo I can afford, I ensure it performs reliably and then I pray I never have to depend on it to save my life. YMMV
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Old 10-25-2019, 05:42 PM
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Paul Harrell tests a few options.

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Old 10-27-2019, 06:10 AM
thess02 thess02 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
They may not have hollowpoints, but the
M855A1 and

Both catagorized as Ball ammunition
Are crazy good
Barrier Blind
Brutal terminal performance

I have some of both rounds. If I know something serious is about to happen, that is what I would use.
Wow just wow, those are some serious-arse $#!+

I hope that some day they get out to the public in quantity and reasonable prices
But after one mass shooting
The effects will cause them to be banned
The treminal effect is terminal
The Winchester Service Grade FMJFP is available and priced same as regular FMJ.

Added: Or...some projectiles for reloaders.

Last edited by thess02; 10-27-2019 at 06:44 AM.. Reason: Added info
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