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Old 10-08-2019, 12:31 PM
Explainist Explainist is offline
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I bought a Harbor Freight gun safe at a swap meet. I always check youtube to see if there is a vulnerability in any lock I buy, and there always is. I am designing my own electronic lock, after seeing these videos. The mechanism of mine is shown at the start of the first video.





vulnerabilities of locks:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9...8W8JigLoZOh6FQ
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Old 10-08-2019, 02:29 PM
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My safe is a Cannon from Tractor supply. It's safe enough. At least it will stop the honest thief..
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:14 PM
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Locks are only a deterrent, they are no match for perseverance. There are some good youtubes of high dollar safes being defeated in short order with ordinary garage tools.

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Old 10-08-2019, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explainist View Post
I bought a Harbor Freight gun safe at a swap meet. I always check youtube to see if there is a vulnerability in any lock I buy, and there always is. I am designing my own electronic lock, after seeing these videos. The mechanism of mine is shown at the start of the first video.





vulnerabilities of locks:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9...8W8JigLoZOh6FQ
I’m a licensed locksmith. I don’t do a lot of safe work but I can recommend a few good choices and if you are near Houston sell them to you. I can also likely help you find a safe tech in other states.


The lock is not the only or even most likely
Vulnerability in your safe. It’s possible to manipulate / drill and open it fairly simply. Really professionals wouldn’t really
Call that a “ safe “ it’s not rated. It’s more a residential security container. And it’s likely not even rated that either. Those type of dates are really only good at keeping kids and smash and grab thieves out of your guns. I guess they can keep your wife from discovering how many guns you bought this month too. Not much else.

This may be enough for you. If it is I wouldn’t bother changing the lock. I would consider a better safe since you will likely be paying a tech more than the cost of a better safe to open this one if it breaks or spending a long time with a saws all.

If you want a gun safe that’s going to keep somebody out who has any idea how to open a safe , get an amsec that’s UL rated. Fort Knox , Mesa and gaurdall also make pretty good safes , but skip the low end.

If you want to save money, look for a large safe that’s not a “ gun safe “ but made for a business by amsec or Diebold etc. you can often find them cheap if you have the equipment and strength to move them. Again you want a safe that’s UL rated ideally or construction rated if not.

UL ratings are time/sides. So TL15-6 would mean it takes a trained professional with proper tools 15 minutes minimum to cut through any of the 6 sides.

Construction ratings are based on knowledge of safe design. They are A,b, c etc. with a being the least secure. You want at least a B , but a C rating is really good. An F is equivalent to UL TL30.

It’s important to remember that your personal security needs should dictate what safe you have. Honestly most people are fine with a dependable RSC or B rated safe as long as it’s properly installed. Installation is very important for safes especially those less than 350 pounds.

A gun room is also a good enough option for most people. Put en exterior door , re-enforced deadbolt and alarm sensor on a closet and it’s safer than your cheap safes.
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:41 PM
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Mine is 1in hardened ar500 gold depository out of a wellsfargo. 5200lbs bolted to concrete. With relockers. I bought it used and gutted the deposit boxes out of it. Then jazzed it up with leds ,paint, and racks
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
I guess they can keep your wife from discovering how many guns you bought this month too.
Ok, that statement was a little TOO accurate for my liking

One of the things I've witnessed in the myriad of internet videos about this: it seems the most effective way to get a medium-sized safe open quickly is be able to get it on its back. Then you can use large hand tools (think a San Angelo bar) to start prying the door opening out of shape. That seems to be more effective than targeting the lock itself.

Case in point, bolt the safe to the floor and also put it in an area where a tool that can provide large quantities of leverage can't fit effectively.

Power tools + time can defeat just about anything. That's where early warning/alarms come in, where the intruders know they are on a very abbreviated time frame before you/authorities show up... before they use your compressor/ cutoff wheel from the garage to breach the side of the safe.

...and that thing's a beast, John - I can't fit that in my house without it self-installing into my basement
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:43 PM
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Mine is 1in hardened ar500 gold depository out of a wellsfargo. 5200lbs bolted to concrete. With relockers. I bought it used and gutted the deposit boxes out of it. Then jazzed it up with leds ,paint, and racks
Nice. Looks like the safe to the right is the same as mine..
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:53 PM
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I was told by a locksmith that the most secure safe if one that can not be readily found. I have some ideas on that score. It will be to secure things if for some reason I ever get red flagged. They will bust open the most obvious but not realize that behind the wall or under the floor is a very large space. Burying scraps of rebar around to the yard for their metal detectors is something else to think about.
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:54 PM
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Most of what is used is not a safe, but a Home Security Container per UL
A real safe, like the one pictured in this thread is massive weight-wise
If you have the $$$ get an AmSec or Brown aka a real safe
Otnerwise, get a Home Security Container- not a safe
Which is what I have
Zanotti Armor
Good for what it is - modular
Recommended
Otherwise, hope for the best
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Old 10-08-2019, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumWill View Post
Quote:
I guess they can keep your wife from discovering how many guns you bought this month too.
Ok, that statement was a little TOO accurate for my liking [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]

One of the things I've witnessed in the myriad of internet videos about this: it seems the most effective way to get a medium-sized safe open quickly is be able to get it on its back. Then you can use large hand tools (think a San Angelo bar) to start prying the door opening out of shape. That seems to be more effective than targeting the lock itself.

Case in point, bolt the safe to the floor and also put it in an area where a tool that can provide large quantities of leverage can't fit effectively.

Power tools + time can defeat just about anything. That's where early warning/alarms come in, where the intruders know they are on a very abbreviated time frame before you/authorities show up... before they use your compressor/ cutoff wheel from the garage to breach the side of the safe.

...and that thing's a beast, John - I can't fit that in my house without it self-installing into my basement [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]
On cheaper safes , the cam system that moves the bolts can often be manipulated fairly easily sometimes a single hole has to be drilled sometimes the bar can simply be pushed back. This bypasses the lock itself. This is MUCH faster than a cutting attack or even attacking the lock. Some guys can do it almost as fast as they can enter a combination.

You won’t keep a safe cracker out of a safe. Of course unless you have 50k or more of value in the safe or 20k in gold/cash , a good safe cracker may turn his nose up at the job. After all beggars can’t be choosers BUT thieves can. While Guns are a bonus to low
Level thieves the real pros want money and jewelry as guns are bigger , legally more risky , easier to trace etc. they also prefer to rob a store that’s closed so they don’t get shot. .

Now your typical big box store safes are crackable by people with much lower skill levels and those guys would not be above stealing a few thousand in guns from
Somebodies house .

Typically your safe will keep your guns safe from the first robbery. Your typical bad guy will smash and grab and not have time or tools for the safe. He may not have skills. The first guy will either come back and hit the safe a few weeks later OR enlist a more skilled scumbag to do the job. He may just trade the info on the safe for a small amount of drugs /money.

Many homes get robbed again after the first robbery. 1 out of every three burglary victims is a repeat victim. And half of those where hit within the last 30
Days prior to the most recent job. The risk of being hit doesn’t return to average until 6 months has passed according to the Oxford journal of criminology.

Also they usually head for the bedroom. So do things to slow them down. A good thing to have is an auto locking key pad knob on your bedroom door and bedroom closet. Even if you don’t store a lot of valuables there. This slows them down and time is everything.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:12 PM
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Nice. Looks like the safe to the right is the same as mine..
I got that one for ammo. $999 drom tractor supply on Black Friday.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
Nice. Looks like the safe to the right is the same as mine..
Beats my cardboard box covered with a blanket in the back of my closet
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:29 AM
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Mine isn't. Its sufficient to keep the kids out and to obfuscate the quantity of goodies from my lady. Beyond that i have no misconceptions about its ability to keep an actual thief out and have instead taken steps to secure my home and selected my neighborhood carefully.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:36 AM
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Nice. Looks like the safe to the right is the same as mine..
I got that one for ammo. $999 drom tractor supply on Black Friday.
You shouldn’t keep ammo in a safe.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
I was told by a locksmith that the most secure safe if one that can not be readily found. I have some ideas on that score. It will be to secure things if for some reason I ever get red flagged. They will bust open the most obvious but not realize that behind the wall or under the floor is a very large space. Burying scraps of rebar around to the yard for their metal detectors is something else to think about.
Wall safes are “ok”. They are usually easy to pull out of the wall, but can be hard to find.

FLOOR SAFES properly installed in a concrete foundation can be real hard to find and real hard to break into when you do. Cutting attacks are difficult as access is limited and you have to attack the safe door. You are going to have to use a sledge to busy it out OR actually drill / manipulate the lock. Using the sledge is too much like work most crooks. And cracking the safe will take a long time and some knowledge. Unless you are pretty rich , it’s not likely worth most crooks time.

The downside is floor safes are expensive to install and too small for most gun collections. Also many of us don’t have slabs.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:11 AM
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You shouldn’t keep ammo in a safe.
Why? It’s outside in a barn. I need to control humidity somehow.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:28 AM
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Fun story: The wife and I used to be extremely poor. She was in med school with no job, I was in working and going to school. I wanted a safe so bad but we barely paid the bills. I didn’t have many guns but we lived in a trailer park and I was terrified of losing them to break in because I couldn’t afford to replace them. On date nights we were so broke we would walk around stores and window shop and I always looked at safes. When she graduated she got her sign on bonus at the hospital and bought me a safe.
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Old 10-09-2019, 08:17 AM
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You shouldn’t keep ammo in a safe.
What about a cabinet with 2 layers of 3/4" fire rated drywall with all the seams sealed with furnace calking on the inside ?

And all the ammo is in fat 50's --
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:14 AM
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You shouldn’t keep ammo in a safe.
And why not??
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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Why? It’s outside in a barn. I need to control humidity somehow.
No real reason not to, IMO, other than using that space for other stuff of more value.

Ammo cans, as you have pictured, if the seals are good is fine just about anywheres. I plop a few silica desiccant packs in our ammo cans & call it good.

Cardboard cased ammo gets stored in plywood boxed shipping pallets. Heavy mil plastic tarp inside the pallets, wrapped up and folded over like a burrito.

Rechargeable silica desiccant inside of the “burrito”’s. Silica packs re charged annually, or when re-stocking into ammo cans. Haven’t had any of the rechargeable dessicant packs turn color ahead of recharge. Pretty humid at our old house in Willamette Valley. Less so down here in State of Jefferson XX.
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