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Old 10-06-2019, 05:39 PM
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Default Keeping Cop Killers In Prison



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I know some of you are LEOs or former LEO's. There is a page that lists when cop killers are coming up for parole, and where and how to write to try to prevent their release. Here is a link: https://www.odmp.org/noparole
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:48 AM
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Keep in mind that if a parole board doesn't let them go free a liberal judge will. Read up on how Cleve Hiedelberg got out of prison after murdering a Peoria County Deputy Sheriff named Ray Espinoza. Sure, Hiedelberg spent years in prison before he got out but that still wasn't enough for the suffering that he, Hiedelberg, caused so many people.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:51 AM
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Is killing a cop any different then a citizen?


Treat everyone as a equal. Killing a citizen or a cop should be the same punishment.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:52 AM
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Thank you for shining a light on this issue
Need to do it
I am not a LEO fan-boy
But, violent scum needs to stay in a cage
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:45 AM
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If this becomes a big enough issue, some liberal politician will use it as proof that the court system is biased just because it convicts more minorities of cop killing than white folk.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recklessdriver View Post
Is killing a cop any different then a citizen?


Treat everyone as a equal. Killing a citizen or a cop should be the same punishment.
If I knew of a web site with information on when non-cop killers come up for parole, I'd gladly share that one, too.

ALL people's lives matter!
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:03 PM
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I think murdering killer's should be put down. They have given up their right to life by taking it.

It's like $60,000 or more a year to keep them in prison, it cost like a nickel to shoot them. There are far better uses for the money than keeping the scum fat and happy in a cell.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by charliemeyer007 View Post
I think murdering killer's should be put down. The have given up their right to life by taking it.

It's like $60,000 or more a year to keep them in prison, it cost like a nickel to shoot them. There are far better uses for the money than keeping the scum fat and happy in a cell.
But, but, but, but . . . what about the killer's rights?
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:42 PM
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Two things:

#1. There are times when the rights of the victim should outweigh the rights of the suspect.

#2. The murder of ANY person should rate the same penalty be they cop or civilian personnel. The trouble is that a liberal judge will set a murderer free whether or not the victim is a cop or civilian in a heartbeat. Anybody can be a victim of a crime at any time and anywhere.

Like Robert Heinlein once said, "An honest politician (and this includes judges) is one who stays loyal to the person who first bought him." He may have been more right than he understood.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:34 AM
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I honestly think you americans need to relax with the gavel bashing. You already have 5x the incarceration rate of the rest of the 1st world. 1 in 5 prisoners on planet earth is an American citizen now. You are locking up more of your citizens than any country in history, you dont need any more extended sentences seriously.

Not to mention finding new angles to punish standard crimes (regardless how heinous) only denigrates the very good and fair system you worked out generations ago.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
Not to mention finding new angles to punish standard crimes (regardless how heinous) only denigrates the very good and fair system you worked out generations ago.
Generations ago we executed murderers. That solved the problem of repeat offenders. At one time even horse thieves were hung.

American society has devolved into one where criminals get off on simple technicalities. Police are no longer allowed to deal with violent criminals in a manner that works. We've taken in too many people from lawless and corrupt countries who not share traditional American values. And a ghetto culture has evolved in large Democrat-controlled cities that promotes murder and violence.

What is the root cause? That topic is debatable. I blame Hollywood culture, corrupt politicians, and a general lack of respect in society. Most Americans likely believe more people should be incarcerated.

Which country do you hail from, and how do you deal with murderers?
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:52 AM
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Keeping cop killers in prison sets a bad president. In fact, keeping any violent offender in prison does. Someone that violent has shown they cannot be a member of civilized society.

This is why there is such a thing as capitol punishment.

Liberal states, and their policies have destroyed the system by clogging it with offenders, or by turning it into a "catch, and release" vacation spot.

I'll go even further. In my view any long term prison sentence (say over 15, or 20 years) is "cruel, and unusual punishment." If an offender is so bad to have to be removed from society for that length of time, just put them down. No good can come from taking away the freedom of a human for that length of time. If they weren't criminally insane going in, they will be coming out.
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Old 03-12-2020, 08:11 AM
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EVERYONE ready to string up everybody judged guilty needs to put themselves on the other side of the scope for a second.

The legal system is so convoluted now that ANYONE can be charged at anytime for anything. Patriot act and NDAA have pretty much killed innocent until proven guilty and due process.

String up cop killers! Yay! Shoot em' in the back of the head and bill the family(like china does)!

UNTIL...

The democrats get back into office and every gun you own becomes illegal. What then?
Identity politics and immigration have sealed the fate of right-wing values. In a few years the right will NOT win elections under the current system. Then we WILL get democrat rule. Then they WILL come after your guns.

What will you do? The cops WILL NOT give up their badges and pensions to do what they swore they would do. (gun laws don't affect them, remember)

If you fight to keep your lawful, Constitutionally protected property and rights, then YOUR neck will be in that noose or in front of that gun.

If you lose.

I'm NOT advocating killing cops, I'M a fan of self-defense from government mandated murder.

Something to think about.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:23 PM
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LIFE LONG LE here..
Had more than a handful of folks try to put me into an early permanent retirement.

Here is the theory behind treating cop killers differently than the non cop folks.
People are killing people every day.
Some times they know each other.
Some times it is a conflict that arises out of differing world opinions.
Some times it is a drug deal gone bad.
Some times it is a robbery gone bad.
Some times it is just some Adam Henry blasting wildly and not too careful about where or who is getting blasted.

The BIG difference is INTENT and RESPONSIBILITY.

The police are paid and expected to keep the peace and safeguard the rights and protections of others.
The police have the duty and obligation to intercede in dangerous situation that no one else is obligated to get involved with.
The obligation carries with it the assurance that your going in harms way will be covered with the greatest punishment that can be handed out if you get injured or killed. It is considered part of societies obligation to the police for having them go in harms way instead of everyone having to be their own gunfighter, fight stopper, robbery preventer or catcher or whatever.

In states where there is capital punishment, everyone knows cop killers die. It is why people should and do refrain from killing cops, which is actually easier to do than one would think. In Michigan it is pretty much a given, while we do not have CP, if you kill a cop you will live the rest of your life behind bars. It is part of the contract.

Without it, the guy who gets 15 years for manslaughter of non-cop citizen "Because he lost his head all mad and such" could kill a cop and say the same and expect the same, but then the message you send to the cops is "YEs, go in harms way for me and if you die the killer will be treated the same way as if he shot a guy he was fighting with, and get the same 15 years."
It would change the balance and promises that each person labored under. Maybe the cop backs off, and the population suffers because the cop says not worth the risk, or maybe anyone who is potentially dangerous simply never survives the arrest.

The intent part is simple.. no one accidentally kills a cop. You see the cop and it matters not your mindset.. you know you are killing a cop. The cop who is supposed to protect the non cop folks. You take on and kill the cop you are basically taking on one of the foundations of our present existence. IF you will kill a cop you will kill anyone. The threat to society is without a doubt. And it will be up to other cops to find you and stop that threat.

The responsibility is, the public owes it to the cop to be sure that the person who kills him in the line of duty receives the maximum punishment. The cop has the responsibility to go in harms way, maybe even die for the sake of protecting the people.

THAT is why there is a different punishment for cop killers.
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:44 PM
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VERY sound reasoning and statement, NW GUY. I actually agree with all of it.

I am simply trying to get everyone to not be so quick to sharpen the state's knife if it might be someday at their throat.
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Old 03-12-2020, 10:26 PM
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I know this thread is about cop killers but baby rapers should be put down immediately. Or, turned loose among the general population. Word will get around quick.
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:10 PM
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I SPENT most of my adult life going in harms way and occasionally having to dodge some bullets and send some back. I never shot anyone who really didn't deserve it and never killed anyone who wasn't seriously better off dead for all concerned.

that said

Basically I am against capital punishment.
It has killed innocent people in this country in numbers we would rather not recognize.
There are some extreme cases that really do justify it and they should be under a separate playbook than the "average murderer"
but
our justice system does not allow for that.
I have seen bad cops, bad evidence, and bad prosecutors making hairline judgements and calls that while not illegal were certainly not in the spirit of the law as it was intended.

example of a case I know/found out about..
detectives investigating a homicide have suspect in custody. says it wasn't him, he just lent the car to his brother and his brothers friend Doesn't know his name, only saw him briefly that night.. Store owner killed in robbery. Brother killed in robbery, found dead in the car. Gun, brother and car found in parking lot miles away. Car was picked up by a scratchy video VHS tape on store across the street. Barely shows 2 people leaving scene. Gun was wiped clean Ammo in gun has partial print of living brother. His story, it is his gun he keeps in car for protection. He was home drunk on the couch when his brother and nameless friend did the job. Had no idea they were going to do it.
This is a felony murder case, 2 dead while a felony being committed. Life with no chance of parole. Would be a death penalty case in a death state.
As part of the investigation detectives canvas neighborhood looking for witnesses who saw the 2 brothers leave together.
Only one person saw .."something" It was just getting dark. He saw the one brother get in the car and he wasn't sure about who the other guy was on the other side of the car but he didn't think he was the other brother because he looked too short. But hard to tell, it was dark.

In discovery all police reports are to be handed over to the defense, but the prosecutor says, since the guy couldn't identify who was getting in the car because it was dark it was not really pertinent or exculpatory and withholds the report from the defense. The prosecutor offers a deal, plead to murder 2 and see a chance at parole after 20 years. Otherwise trial for felony murder and never get out. He takes the deal at the prodding of his PD The PD doesn't believe him either. The detectives never have to testify about the witness they found. They never tell the PD that they found that witness, they are under no obligation to do that.

he is 12 years in when he finally got the ear of one of the amnesty groups that researches cases. They get the original files and find the police report that was withheld from the defense. The prosecutor who made the decision is dead and gone. A different prosecutor is running the office. Claims no knowledge of anything that happened.
Court of appeals thinks it over for another year and then says he deserves a new trial.
Original detectives, both retired, one dead the other living in Florida. Original prosecutor dead. Public Defender now out of state. Witness who talked to police, dead.
but
present prosecutor takes position while it PROBABLY should have been provided it certainly is not a document that absolves the guy as the other participant in the robbery and as evidence it is vague at best.
No way to retry the case fairly but prosecutor says they could be letting a killer lose. Another deal struck. after it is explained he can have a new trial but there are still no guarantees he will win. He is out, time served. He still claims he is innocent but takes the freedom.

NOw, that dubious description by the witness was REASONABLE DOUBT that could have been raised at trial. The guy still might have been convicted but then the trial wouldn't have been tainted. OR he could have been found not guilty, as he claimed and gone on with his life.

If he had forced a trial he probably would have been convicted because at trail they could have raised his criminal past.. a prior armed robbery. HE would have gone to death row in a death state. I have no idea if he did or didn't do it but by not playing fair the prosecutor screwed justice .

They do that sometimes.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Killing a citizen or a cop should be the same punishment
I support a law that if they get out and are caught with a firearm as a felon they should be locked up forever.

in fact any other violent felons after release caught with a firearm should be locked up for 20 years mandatory and spend the rest of their life on parole.
And if caught again mandatory life.
Right now most get maybe 3 years for felon in Possession of a firearm.

Too many gang members do crimes and get out and get guns and do other armed crimes
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
I honestly think you americans need to relax with the gavel bashing. You already have 5x the incarceration rate of the rest of the 1st world. 1 in 5 prisoners on planet earth is an American citizen now. You are locking up more of your citizens than any country in history, you dont need any more extended sentences seriously.

Not to mention finding new angles to punish standard crimes (regardless how heinous) only denigrates the very good and fair system you worked out generations ago.
The primary reason American prisons are overcrowded is because many non-violent offenders such as drug dealers are given long sentences. Trump has indicated a willingness to reform the judicial system to reduce sentences for non-violent criminals.

Violent criminals are a threat to society and should be locked away for many years. Cop killers should be executed.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:37 PM
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I 100% support keeping cop killers in prison.

Is there also a page that keeps tabs on (the much lower but not negligible number of) killer cops? the likes of Lon Horiuchi? Philip Brailsford? No there is not. Oh wait - that's because they never have to face the music for their legal murders. Never serve a day in prison.
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