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Old 10-02-2019, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
Sometimes pork strips are on sale at our local 10% grocery store. It would be small to buy a 100 lbs. Freeze it and then can it. Per lb chicken rear quarters are very cheap, but a lot of it is skin and bone. Good for dogs, not a good candidate for canning. I would pressure cook first and than go through the canning process with heat to sterilize and make the seal. The meat would go well with the dried beans and rice that I plan to store sealed in with nitrogen.
If I knew for sure the date of the catastrophe I would get rid of the diet I am on and really get fat lol.
Last winter a local grocery put beef roast on sale for $1.99/lb.
I bought about 50lbs and made jerky with most of it.


...But those canning opportunities exist.
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Old 10-02-2019, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post


This afternoon. My wifes parking spot in our driveway. Thats why I say 308.




Maybe work on that? I mean....whats the point otherwise?
House is concrete block with every cell poured and with rebar. Doors are steel fire doors with frame set in mortar. Roof 5/8" decking with steel roofing. Meant to go through hurricanes.
Walls can stop a 30-06, but:
Contents are flammable. molotovs thrown at the house would if enough were thrown to would likely set it on fire. One person firing can only defend one side of the house. The main thing is not to let people know that you have enough to make it worth while them dying to take it. I would be seen on the property going about my tasks armed. Gunfire would be heard on my property on a regular basis. I know from past experiences center fire rifle sound/blasts are quite audible at a distance here. No one will be raiding to take a rifle. Guns are common in my part of Florida. Lots of ARs and AKs plus other weapons around.
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A man's GOT to know his limitations. Harry Callahan
If possible I would cooperate with a neighborhood militia, but that has dangers too if one person has something and the others find out about it.

Fire is the oldest weapon of mass destruction and has been used for such likely since it use was first discovered.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:00 PM
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I would like:

A .22 for small game cheap and quiet.

A hunting rifle from 30-30 up to 30-06. I try to limit my shots to under 100 yards and usually hunt in the woods where 40 yards is a long ways to see a deer.

A shot gun 12 or 20 gauge for moving game.

The shotgun could do everything. With modern slugs a 100 yard shot is quite doable. In some states buck shot is legal, and the smaller shot for smaller game. Also a good home defense gun. Although for small game it is more expensive per shot and louder than a .22 and good slugs are about double the price of rifle ammo.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:37 PM
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Contents are flammable. molotovs thrown at the house would if enough were thrown to would likely set it on fire. One person firing can only defend one side of the house.
Well, I certainly hope you have enough to fire on all sides of the house !

Remember also that those doing the throwing are flammable as well & most folks won't keep lighting them when their buddies are roasting before their very eyes! No one should make it easy to burn them out, in fact it would be wise to make that as difficult as possible , near impossible ...

Then again IF they burn up your supplies they've gained nothing and lost many resources (gasoline won't be so easy to come by for example) IOW realistically WHY would anyone go to the effort for NO net gains? Seems to me there are much better ways of doing things where they'd get some reward for their efforts?
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Old 10-02-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
Well, I certainly hope you have enough to fire on all sides of the house !

Remember also that those doing the throwing are flammable as well & most folks won't keep lighting them when their buddies are roasting before their very eyes! No one should make it easy to burn them out, in fact it would be wise to make that as difficult as possible , near impossible ...

Then again IF they burn up your supplies they've gained nothing and lost many resources (gasoline won't be so easy to come by for example) IOW realistically WHY would anyone go to the effort for NO net gains? Seems to me there are much better ways of doing things where they'd get some reward for their efforts?
A reason to kill someone that refuses to knuckle down: Sending a message to others so they will not do the same thing.

Most people do not want to believe that they are vulnerable. There are some ways of of building a safe retreat if the terrain is right and you say want to climb cliff every day.
Mesa Verde

Remember many communities have national guard armories and some have military armories. People, likely the people working and living about those armories will not let it go to waste.
In third world countries armed troops are the last ones to go hungry in times of crisis. Few have houses that are cannon proof.
The best is a hidden house, like underground or such, that no one knows about and can find. There is a limit for me as to how far I want to go down that route. I will take prudent measures and I am not frightened of dying since that is something we all must do. If it is at someone else's hands I want to make a good account of myself and take some with me.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
House is concrete block with every cell poured and with rebar. Doors are steel fire doors with frame set in mortar. Roof 5/8" decking with steel roofing. Meant to go through hurricanes.
Walls can stop a 30-06, but:
Contents are flammable. molotovs thrown at the house would if enough were thrown to would likely set it on fire. One person firing can only defend one side of the house. The main thing is not to let people know that you have enough to make it worth while them dying to take it. I would be seen on the property going about my tasks armed. Gunfire would be heard on my property on a regular basis. I know from past experiences center fire rifle sound/blasts are quite audible at a distance here. No one will be raiding to take a rifle. Guns are common in my part of Florida. Lots of ARs and AKs plus other weapons around.

If possible I would cooperate with a neighborhood militia, but that has dangers too if one person has something and the others find out about it.

Fire is the oldest weapon of mass destruction and has been used for such likely since it use was first discovered.

You sound pretty well setup to me. Add steel shutters for your windows and a fire suppression system and I think your set. Fire is the biggest natural threat most people face, it’s where I think people should start before they get to guns. If you don’t have enough people to cover all sides set up your defenses to limit enemy movement.

And has been noted, raiders are not going to be burning you out, there would be nothing in it for them, in fact if you could convince them you would set your place on fire if attacked it would be a strong defense in itself. The Masada solution.

Now of course there is always a limit to what you can stand against but “multiple attackers” is a low bar to pass.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
You sound pretty well setup to me. Add steel shutters for your windows and a fire suppression system and I think your set. Fire is the biggest natural threat most people face, it’s where I think people should start before they get to guns. If you don’t have enough people to cover all sides set up your defenses to limit enemy movement.

And has been noted, raiders are not going to be burning you out, there would be nothing in it for them, in fact if you could convince them you would set your place on fire if attacked it would be a strong defense in itself. The Masada solution.

Now of course there is always a limit to what you can stand against but “multiple attackers” is a low bar to pass.
House was built for hurricanes. Does have shutter, but for wind and debris and these will not stop bullets.
Yes I have been thinking of a sprinkler system since house fires are a big threat to any home. door besides wind are only intended to stop a home invader long enough for me to have time to react. Last year hurricane michael hit just a little to the east of me with winds that were between a cat 4 and 5 as it landed. I have had several hurricanes pass over my house. Never know when the nx big one is on the way.
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Old 10-02-2019, 05:40 PM
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Does have shutter, but for wind and debris and these will not stop bullets.
Shutters that will stop bullets are really hard and expensive to set up.

What I was getting at is shutters to stop molotoves, tear gas, etc. Almost all house fires, even in forest fires, start from the inside out. Keep the fire outside of the flammable contents and you're doing good. Your hurricane shutters are probably good in this regard.

I have no idea what your property is like, if your in a town etc. But since it sounds like your house is well built you could think about defense landscaping to limit the direction that attackers could come from.

You are probably not facing paratroopers that drop out of the sky and land anywhere, but people who have to walk, drive, etc up to get at you, this all means paths, routes, etc that limit the way they will show up, which is something you can manipulate to your advantage.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:32 PM
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Same here, I agree. I've had the opportunity, I guess, to go to China a lot in the last 15 years. Wifes family lives there. There is not one living non human thing there. Seriously. For the first time ever, when I was there last time I saw a kinda of feed lot for cattle, and it was small. There is not any animal there. I figure thats the way it would be here if there was no law. Reading, and reading here about the depression here, it apparently was the same thing. Nothing. I know folks here say that "Well, if you live in X, then there will be......". I do not think that is true. One family will clean out every animal in that place inside of a couple of weeks, don't care where its at. The "Out in the country away from things in the farm fields shooting whitetails" is a kinda bs dream that ranks up there with "I'm heading to Walmart" or "My uncle has a deer lease" kinda bad thinking.
Chicomland isn't really beef country. It's hogs. Biggest producer in the world of "the other white meat". Status symbol. They are (or were) a huge producer. But swine fever has decimated their herd. The ACTUAL reason US farm exports have had a big drop. They were importing hog feed but the hogs are dead = don't need feed.

https://modernfarmer.com/2014/03/tai...-chinese-pork/
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fragout View Post
Nope. They should live trap them and utilize them via captivity.

Hogs put rabbits to shame when it comes to breeding. Nothing like deer, elk, or moose.

Google it up for your viewing pleasure.

Would rather shoot them than trap them personally. ( Excellent training value.....lol)

The hogs below all taken in a handful of seconds with M14 and R1 M1 BALL. ( One of the more consistent hog slayin FMJ in my expierience)

Edit: Your map of Texas is a tad outdated btw. ....

.......And you can figure roughly 35 to 40 percent of live hog weight is meat.....depending on where you shoot um. In other words.........A 100 lbs hog on the hoof will typically yield 35 to 40 lbs. Double that if your dumpin 200 pound pigs.
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We have some 15m nice healthy disease free hogs in Iowa and all are in nice handy tidy indoor buildings. Market weight is around 275lb. Of course small problem that when the electricity goes out (and the gensets run out of LP) they will all smother in these buildings. So high priority to liberate/move some and let the others out to free roam. The survivors will be feral shortly.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:11 PM
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NOT an Molotov cocktail. That was caused by a lawless Attorney General and her jackbooted thugs using an M88. Tough to stop an M88.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:54 PM
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NOT an Molotov cocktail. That was caused by a lawless Attorney General and her jackbooted thugs using an M88. Tough to stop an M88.
Not too mention, they did actually hold off multiple highly armed and trained attackers for a some time while inflicting significant casualties on the attackers.

I'm not going to hold off the US government either but anyone planing on bugging in should really be prepared to at least fight off a squad sized force of attacking raiders or there isn't much pointing in bugging in in a starvation scenario. Unless you are incredibly remote it seems likely that most people will have to fight to keep what they have to some degree.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:16 PM
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Shutters that will stop bullets are really hard and expensive to set up.

What I was getting at is shutters to stop molotoves, tear gas, etc. Almost all house fires, even in forest fires, start from the inside out. Keep the fire outside of the flammable contents and you're doing good. Your hurricane shutters are probably good in this regard.

I have no idea what your property is like, if your in a town etc. But since it sounds like your house is well built you could think about defense landscaping to limit the direction that attackers could come from.

You are probably not facing paratroopers that drop out of the sky and land anywhere, but people who have to walk, drive, etc up to get at you, this all means paths, routes, etc that limit the way they will show up, which is something you can manipulate to your advantage.
Surrounded by forest on one boundary and I can not cut that down. Other boundaries have privacy fences. All of that is concealment for any potential attacker.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:59 PM
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Back in the seventies in Alaska, the only time I had to rely on hunting to feed my family a 30 aught six did for big game, moose and bear. 22 rifle for smaller game. Looking back, I see no need for anything else. People shoot what they prefer.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Chicomland isn't really beef country. It's hogs. Biggest producer in the world of "the other white meat". Status symbol. They are (or were) a huge producer. But swine fever has decimated their herd. The ACTUAL reason US farm exports have had a big drop. They were importing hog feed but the hogs are dead = don't need feed.

https://modernfarmer.com/2014/03/tai...-chinese-pork/
I know that.The point that I am trying to make, not very well, is, There is not not one animal there. Not even one. Going there a lot in the last 15 years, traveling on the ground by car and train, and by the air, the first time I saw anything was some kind of very small feed lot 2 months ago riding on a train going north. By not seeing anything, I mean anything. I would not expect to see deer and elk and that kind of stuff, but there are no birds, squirrels, cats, dogs, no anything. In the cities, nothing. You might see a tiny malformed bird now and again, but nothing else. It is weird going through hundreds of miles farmland, where corn is planted everywhere, right on down to creek beds, and only seeing two birds in 2 hours.

Its probably been that way there for hundreds of years. Thats the way it will be here also.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:56 AM
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We’re i live I need a .308, .22LR and a 12 gauge to hunt. What type of rifles would be a preference.

AR-10 w/1-6X
10/22 takedown
870 or 590
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:21 PM
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I have a strong house, but have no illusions about defending it against multiple attackers. In hard times my attackers could be hungry neighbors. Big thing is that people can smell food cooking over and an outdoor fire. Nice thing about canned food is that it can usually be eaten cold.
I might do a little hunting near my property in the early days of the catastrophe assuming it was of sudden onset. It would be from blinds and also a good to see trespassers and decide what to do about them.
I would have traps set up for small critters and birds. But I would be living off of my stores. With time I would hopefully be growing a lot of things to take the place of my stores before they are totally gone.
One reason why we have always been into home canning. ( Well before I was even born)

Our first priority is canning meat, poultry, and fish. ( This includes livestock we raise such as chicken, duck, turkey, rabbit, goat, cattle, catfish....plus wild game such as hogs, deer, and elk.)

We have not needed to buy any meat, poultry, or fish for well over 20 years now.

Note: Primary reason why we grow/ raise/ harvest/ preserve our own food is so we are never dependent on any outside source to supply us with food.

The next priority is canning fruits and veggies. ( Good to have a certain supply if we run into a bad growing season or 2 in a row...which could very well result in a dangerous shortage quickly.)

Similar to how hunting is only one means to acquire food along with trapping and raising it, home canning is only one means of preservation. We also smoke/ salt/ dehydrate foods as well as freeze it.

I would suggest to anyone interested in any of these ideas to start asap so that the learning curve can be accomplished while grocery stores are there as a reliable back up NOW.
Would not want to be a rookie with any of the means listed here.....AFTER tshtf.

Same goes for firearms selected for keeping the family fed as this thread stems towards. I personally don't buy into the shotgun as a necessity . Reason is past experience using it for hunting. While it could be pressed into the " do all" role, it's practical list of limitations exceeds what it's capabilities are. Strictly a specialized tool with a very dedicated role to supplement the one thing that rifles do not do all that well or are efficient towards.....Shooting down flying objects at close distances.

Example: A 12 ga " max" load 2 3/4 inch foster slug with a 50yard zero will drop anywheres from 5 to 6 inches at 100 yards.....combined with a very low BC, SD, rapid velocity loss as well as big loss of energy.

11B
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Old 10-06-2019, 02:13 PM
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We have some 15m nice healthy disease free hogs in Iowa and all are in nice handy tidy indoor buildings. Market weight is around 275lb. Of course small problem that when the electricity goes out (and the gensets run out of LP) they will all smother in these buildings. So high priority to liberate/move some and let the others out to free roam. The survivors will be feral shortly.
Feral hogs are a double edged sword, and letting any amount to " roam free" and go feral is a bad idea for many reasons....especially in a state such as Iowa. Best bet is to keep them domesticated , modify the farms to facilitate a healthy stock, and have them on the hoof to feed the survivors.

I say this because I have seen first hand as to how much damage a small sounder of feral pigs can do in a single night towards agriculture.

In short, firearms to keep the family fed also involve using them to keep unchecked feral hog populations from decimating crops, contamination of water supplies, etc........

Hint: Shoot the pregnant sows first if you can. After that....shoot as many as you can from point blank out to your own MER.
Either that or learn to love wild pork exclusively.

11B
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