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Old 09-27-2019, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
You could get the enduro and use it as a backup plan instead of a daily commuter in traffic.
One could. However, IMO, when things do get sideways folks will not be driving at there “best”.

So a less skilled moto rider would be at a significant disadvantage.

Non-utilized expense set aside.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:31 PM
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One could. However, IMO, when things do get sideways folks will not be driving at there “best”.

So a less skilled moto rider would be at a significant disadvantage.

Non-utilized expense set aside.
That's really what it comes down to. If I had one and rode it often, it would be less of an issue. I just know I wouldn't be riding it much...simply no interest in the hobby. I do backpack and mountain bike. Kind of like "sticking with what you know". Motorcycles, like other hobbies, required invested time to obtain experience, proficiency, and competence. It's no different than the guy that buys the $700 pack, loads it up and tosses it in the closet; never backpacks and says he's good to go if needing to bugout on foot. If you spend the money, you also should invest the time and effort. I've got several friends with Harley's and they ride all the time; it's just not something I have interest in; of course, none of them will go backpacking with me either A motorcycle (or flying lessons) is a great option, just not a great choice for me.

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Old 09-27-2019, 08:53 PM
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Using the Subaru while up there sounds the best & most reasonable.

Keep a few atlases to get out of/around congestion, if alternate routes have clogs & cell/internet overloaded.

MTB is a great idea as well, handy for fun/fitness too.

We’ve never trailered, but there are some decent single wheel ones that don’t cost an arm and a leg. Can haul your pack that way & be ready to go afoot if needs be.
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Old 09-28-2019, 12:14 PM
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Why on earth would you stay anywhere east of the Mississippi river if you are not on active duty any more 6?? There's an awful lot of opportunity out here in the west.

To answer your question, I face the same dilemma on a regular basis as I work all over the state of Wyoming. I could be in Casper, Gillette, Rock Springs and still have to make it up into one of my favorite hiding spots when it goes down. Fortunately I have friends and family all over the state and some pretty serious caches too.

Have you considered a motorcycle? Waaayy better way to get around traffic jams.
Nobody wants to admit it, but what the American Redoubt gives in privacy, it takes in natural resources. It doesn't rain as much, there aren't as many year round springs, and the soil is more difficult to use for growing than other places... the list goes on.

It's nice in Montana et al, but for survival purposes, it's not as easy a place as the Appalachians.

Quite frankly, a small rural community in rural appalachia Georgia is a far better choice for long term survival than Montana after TSHTF.

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Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
You could get the enduro and use it as a backup plan instead of a daily commuter in traffic.
One could. However, IMO, when things do get sideways folks will not be driving at there “best”.

So a less skilled moto rider would be at a significant disadvantage.

Non-utilized expense set aside.
People will continue to follow the rules to their detriment for at least a week after a collapse or disaster scenario begins.

That's precisely why the Beltway and other major thoroughfares will be gridlocked with wide open shoulders and grassy medians. Most people will just refuse to believe that the lights won't be coming back on.

A nice enduro would honestly be a *not bad* choice. Even at a moderate skill level, which is easily attainable.

The only down side, IMO, to using a motorcycle for bugging a serious distance (500 miles), is the inability to carry sufficient spare fuel.

My truck only gets 20 or 21mpg, on the highway (which will likely be blocked anyways), and it takes a significant amount more fuel to travel the same distance than a bike... but, as you've already pointed out, carrying spare fuel isn't a problem when using a car or truck. Not to mention the added protection a covered vehicle on four wheels provides over a motor cycle.

When I was stationed in Texas, my wife and I always planned on bugging out back to our families property in the Appalachians. We planned extensively, and even buried caches along the major interstate routes to the BOL (They've all since been dug up and removed. We moved back to the BOL). The conclusion I arrived at, is that regardless of how well you plan, you're only real hope of making it a serious distance, is to see the signs early and bone out at least 24 hours before any normies realize what's happening. That way, fuel is still available for a normal price, and the roads aren't gridlocked or under federal/military control. And the roads that you plan on taking home, should be secondary backroads. You shouldn't count on the interstate roads to be clear or safe.

You might have an old ID card, or even a blue one.... but that won't do you any good if the military is telling all non-military people to stay off the roads. Which is a likely scenario during a national catastrophe.
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Old 09-28-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by John McNeil View Post
The conclusion I arrived at, is that regardless of how well you plan, you're only real hope of making it a serious distance, is to see the signs early and bone out at least 24 hours before any normies realize what's happening. That way, fuel is still available for a normal price, and the roads aren't gridlocked or under federal/military control. And the roads that you plan on taking home, should be secondary backroads. You shouldn't count on the interstate roads to be clear or safe.
This is my conclusion as well. Pick your poison, but a regional SHTF will predictably create chaos on the roads and will bog it down exponentially worse than normal. Secondary and even tertiary roads aren't long to follow. Staying plugged in to the local news for situational awareness, maybe even a police/emergency scanner is high on my priority list. While I can now "walk away" from my job anytime I want, I still have an emergency TTP to use if I need to bug-home at a moments notice. I'll spend a few weekends mapping and driving alternate routes out...at least to get me the first 100 miles or so out of the immediate area.

I'm considering 9.11-type scenarios, crippling hurricane up the eastern seaboard (although that season is about over), dirty bomb attack, etc. Wide-spread fear will congest the roads within just a few hours. I need to depart immediately to get that initial 100-mile separation which will then open up more options.

Another consideration is the season. Weather isn't severe, but it will impact my planning and preparations.

I do know that bugging in for anything more than a week or two is untenable. If it's a serious, major reginal, potentially long-term SHTF, I need to make the decision early and punch out immediately.

ROCK6
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:29 PM
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The problem with walking on asphalt, is that the sun literally cooks you. Plus it is very hard on the joints, compared to a dirt trail.


Its deceptive. Sure, you can book more miles per hour, but it drains you in a way that sneaks up on you too.

Watch out for that when route planning. Try and make sure you have water sources to pass every 5 miles or so.


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I’ve been job hunting for the past couple months since my return from Afghanistan. I was offered a great deal with a company that will be working where I live now in GA, but the catch is that I have to temporarily move to Virginia for about five months before they relocated down here. It’s about 560 miles from the house…long way to “bug home” if needed!

I am working on renting a room; far cheaper than an apartment, but it does present other challenges. My preparation focus will be mostly bugging home and making the decision early if it’s a major SHTF. That's a long ways to travel, but fortunately I have a few friends on a couple different routes who have already offered a bed and a meal. Biggest issue for me is I95; it’s simply an asphalt nightmare. If I can’t depart the area early or at an odd hour to avoid the gridlock traffic and predictable vehicle accidents, I’ve already plotted two additional routes that will add some extra miles but will likely be less congested.

I do plan to do some backpacking up in Shenandoah, so I will have some worse-case preps and I’m considering on either bringing my mountain bike or purchasing another while I’m up there.

Any geo-bachelors preppers out there? Any special considerations or any unique issues you’ve had to contend with?

At least the location is closer than Afghanistan and the pay is better!

ROCK6
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:37 PM
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As I recall the AT runs between Georgia and Virginia.

You're right about having a extra 10 gallons of gas
The problem with the AT, is that it requires a grid up to be travelable. Without the ability to dropship supplies to the next town, it's probably not doable in a reasonable amount of time.
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Old 09-29-2019, 07:29 AM
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Something to consider is a bike. Last time I had to geo-bach my plan to get home included all the same as mentioned but also a bike. Should add distance each day compared to walking.
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Old 09-29-2019, 08:56 AM
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The problem with walking on asphalt, is that the sun literally cooks you. Plus it is very hard on the joints, compared to a dirt trail.

Its deceptive. Sure, you can book more miles per hour, but it drains you in a way that sneaks up on you too.

Watch out for that when route planning. Try and make sure you have water sources to pass every 5 miles or so.
I've done my share of a hard-ball road marches, and you're spot on...asphalt and pavement will take their toll as the miles add up. There are other methods to stay off the hard roads, but it will slow your pace. Water sources and food are the two biggest limiting factors for me. Even with enough water sources, I don't think I could carry enough food to get me beyond 150 miles without a resupply. With that planning factor, there's a certain point I need to get to be it by vehicle or bicycle.

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Something to consider is a bike. Last time I had to geo-bach my plan to get home included all the same as mentioned but also a bike. Should add distance each day compared to walking.
My primary means will be the vehicle; secondary will be mountain bike, tertiary is on foot (worse-case). I'm leaning more to having my mountain bike paired with a good trailer which will haul my pack. I've used a trailer in the past, and their is a learning curve, but I can carry my typical pack (40-45 pounds maximum) along with more food, which is my major distance eliminator if forced on bike or foot. If I'm forced to go on foot, I really need to hit that magic 150 mile radius from the home; and that still has challenges inherent to traveling on foot. This will be a method I experiment with while up there as I've found a few bike trails where I can test out a single track trailer.

Outside of an extremely volatile and non-permissive environment, I'm pretty confident I could average 50-60 miles a day on a bike with a trailer, even if the weather is poor. That's pretty much five-six times faster/further than I could go on foot with the same amount of resources. Mapping distances, water sources, stealth camping sites, choke points, high-risk areas, etc. are still just as critical. If anything it will be a good exercise in planning...

ROCK6
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Old 09-29-2019, 12:40 PM
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Rock 6, from your mention of a magic 150 mile radius it seems you realize that Richmond is a major bottleneck within 100 miles of NOVA.

Enjoy your time in the DC metro area. When I spent time there I enjoyed being close to Shenandoah NP, and WV has beautiful scenery as well. Old Rag is a fun hike with neat rock scrambles on the outskirts of Shenandoah. Also check out the Occoquan trail, an 18 mile trail that will give you a chance to stretch your legs without having to drive far.

https://www.novaparks.com/parks/bull-run-occoquan-trail

Your 3-tiered plan seems practical. NOVA can experience lengthy power outages due to rain storms, high winds, ice storms, etc. I imagine you'll be prepared w/ backup heat and cooking sources. You also mentioned a 9/11 type event. You'll notice many people commute on mass transit with backpacks. Unfortunately that scenario is no longer just an imaginary scenario, so a get home bag or bug out bag will not look out of place in that environment. Also brush up on D.C. gun laws. If your work might require you to cut through DC enroute to other locations, be aware of what you are can legally carry with you.

P.S. Welcome back to the states.
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Old 09-29-2019, 03:16 PM
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Rock 6, from your mention of a magic 150 mile radius it seems you realize that Richmond is a major bottleneck within 100 miles of NOVA.

Enjoy your time in the DC metro area. When I spent time there I enjoyed being close to Shenandoah NP, and WV has beautiful scenery as well. Old Rag is a fun hike with neat rock scrambles on the outskirts of Shenandoah. Also check out the Occoquan trail, an 18 mile trail that will give you a chance to stretch your legs without having to drive far.

https://www.novaparks.com/parks/bull-run-occoquan-trail

Your 3-tiered plan seems practical. NOVA can experience lengthy power outages due to rain storms, high winds, ice storms, etc. I imagine you'll be prepared w/ backup heat and cooking sources. You also mentioned a 9/11 type event. You'll notice many people commute on mass transit with backpacks. Unfortunately that scenario is no longer just an imaginary scenario, so a get home bag or bug out bag will not look out of place in that environment. Also brush up on D.C. gun laws. If your work might require you to cut through DC enroute to other locations, be aware of what you are can legally carry with you.

P.S. Welcome back to the states.
Thanks! Yeah, my reasoning on the "150-mile radius" for on foot, is to get within 150 miles from home; meaning I need to beat feat out a NOVA, and even get through NC before a worse-case, on-foot finish to get home. Fortunately, the company HQs and where I will be working are both in the VA area; no need to go to DC unless I'm sight-seeing or inebriated beyond common sense

I will be challenged with "preps" per say, as I will be renting a "room", not an apartment. Billeting will really only be the very short term, ice-storms, temporary power outages, etc. My catastrophic plan does hinge on being ready to go immediately, and my initial focus (for now) is to head West towards Shenandoah where I can reassess and I'll have several more options to move southeast.

ROCK6
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:46 PM
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I used to travel a lot for work. I tried traveling by car when possible, and I carried what I thought I might need to get back in case some crisis hit,
and fuel/power/credit cards went haywire.

My top priority was always the reliability of the vehicle. Good tires, fluids, hoses, and belts.
I would pack tools, a good spare tire, 12v power center with jumper cables, tire chains.
I would carry enough fuel to complete the drive home in case no fuel is available.

Plus, I would pack cold weather clothing, camping gear, weapons, cash, and food/water for ten days.
Nothing wrong with bringing along a bike if you would use it.
But I would focus more on the vehicle and spare fuel.
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Old 10-05-2019, 09:32 AM
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I used to travel a lot for work. I tried traveling by car when possible, and I carried what I thought I might need to get back in case some crisis hit,
and fuel/power/credit cards went haywire.

My top priority was always the reliability of the vehicle. Good tires, fluids, hoses, and belts.
I would pack tools, a good spare tire, 12v power center with jumper cables, tire chains.
I would carry enough fuel to complete the drive home in case no fuel is available.

Plus, I would pack cold weather clothing, camping gear, weapons, cash, and food/water for ten days.
Nothing wrong with bringing along a bike if you would use it.
But I would focus more on the vehicle and spare fuel.
I made the drive up yesterday. It's 560 miles, the car has a range of about 450. Alternate routes will bump the range up by about 100 miles, so I'm planning on 650 miles. A single 5 gallon can might be just enough, but I doubt I'll be topped off all the time. A second can will top me off and provide a little cushion. I have spot to store the two cans.

Good comment on vehicle maintenance. My wife's car is in great shape and I just replace the brakes a month ago. My wife's spare tire is full size which is nice, but I'm planning on searching around for a second, full size spare. I have the cargo rack on top, so I could just toss it up there (and cable it down), but two spares is better than one.

The bike will just be for exercise (but I do want to try that off-road, in-line trailer), but just like on-foot for a worse case, I really need to focus on the vehicle being the primary emergency transportation mode for about 400-450 miles.

I'm unpacking today and getting organized. Traffic sucks up here! I'll have a big Cabelas duffle bag that will hold my winter clothes. I'm close to the base where I'll be working, so I'm just working on plans for immediate bug out if necessary. It's not really a tenable condition to bug-in for more than a couple days...heck, if anything, it would be better to take a couple days "leave" and go car camping if things are stirring and I could just stay updated and prepared to bug-home the rest of the way while well outside the NOVO chaos area...if things settle down, nothing lost but a couple days leave.

Time to do some recon!

ROCK6
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:30 AM
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I made the drive up yesterday. It's 560 miles, the car has a range of about 450. Alternate routes will bump the range up by about 100 miles, so I'm planning on 650 miles. A single 5 gallon can might be just enough, but I doubt I'll be topped off all the time. A second can will top me off and provide a little cushion. I have spot to store the two cans.



Good comment on vehicle maintenance. My wife's car is in great shape and I just replace the brakes a month ago. My wife's spare tire is full size which is nice, but I'm planning on searching around for a second, full size spare. I have the cargo rack on top, so I could just toss it up there (and cable it down), but two spares is better than one.



The bike will just be for exercise (but I do want to try that off-road, in-line trailer), but just like on-foot for a worse case, I really need to focus on the vehicle being the primary emergency transportation mode for about 400-450 miles.



I'm unpacking today and getting organized. Traffic sucks up here! I'll have a big Cabelas duffle bag that will hold my winter clothes. I'm close to the base where I'll be working, so I'm just working on plans for immediate bug out if necessary. It's not really a tenable condition to bug-in for more than a couple days...heck, if anything, it would be better to take a couple days "leave" and go car camping if things are stirring and I could just stay updated and prepared to bug-home the rest of the way while well outside the NOVO chaos area...if things settle down, nothing lost but a couple days leave.



Time to do some recon!



ROCK6
Don't forget, you are probably not far from West By God VA from where you'll be.

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Old 10-05-2019, 03:17 PM
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Don't forget, you are probably not far from West By God VA from where you'll be.

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That's a different kind of survival...surviving the dueling bangos

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Old 10-05-2019, 03:24 PM
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That's a different kind of survival...surviving the dueling bangos



ROCK6
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Old 10-06-2019, 07:59 AM
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If you have only 3 or 4 caches of food and water every 150 miles you could make it walking or biking. It would not take a whole lot of effort to place these.

If you would consider a small motorcycle, like a Honda trail bike you could get by easily with 1 or 2 caches of gasoline. That'd be my first choice. Given most circumstances, your chances of survival with a small motorcycle are far greater. One hard day of travel vs weeks possibly walking or days of biking (being optimistic). Riding on center strips or shoulders or lifting over a fence and riding through fields, weaving around blocked traffic, etc. Nothing like trying to ride a big Harley with heavy and dangerous traffic and under much different circumstances.

I regularly travel much longer distances than that and I do plan to survive it.
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Old 10-06-2019, 08:13 AM
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Thanks! Yeah, my reasoning on the "150-mile radius" for on foot, is to get within 150 miles from home; meaning I need to beat feat out a NOVA, and even get through NC before a worse-case, on-foot finish to get home. Fortunately, the company HQs and where I will be working are both in the VA area; no need to go to DC unless I'm sight-seeing or inebriated beyond common sense

I will be challenged with "preps" per say, as I will be renting a "room", not an apartment. Billeting will really only be the very short term, ice-storms, temporary power outages, etc. My catastrophic plan does hinge on being ready to go immediately, and my initial focus (for now) is to head West towards Shenandoah where I can reassess and I'll have several more options to move southeast.

ROCK6
Getting closer to home is always the priority but realistically, one needs to plan on starting the get home trip from scratch. Of course if you are extremely lucky you might make it all the way home by car. Have alternatives in mind (which you are already doing) and be ready for the worst. A series of alternatives, your car to go as far as possible, a bike or Honda trail on a carrier,to go the next step, a back pack with food and gear as a last result. All could be in/on your car at the same time.

Sight seeing in DC can be very enjoyable. There are the monuments, the memorials, and for me especially the Smithsonian. One could spend a week or two there and not absorb it all. And the NRA museum is just down the road.

PS: I'd sure hate to be caught at ground zero.
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Old 10-06-2019, 12:24 PM
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If you have only 3 or 4 caches of food and water every 150 miles you could make it walking or biking. It would not take a whole lot of effort to place these.
I've done enough military planning to understand some of the challenges; this is one of them. While the chances are relatively low, I will plan (might not quite execute) a couple caches and 150 miles is about my limit for a worse-case of on-foot travel.

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A series of alternatives, your car to go as far as possible, a bike or Honda trail on a carrier,to go the next step, a back pack with food and gear as a last result. All could be in/on your car at the same time.
So, most planning is done by branches and/or sequential, and this effort will likely be similar. Consider branch plans as alternates, and sequential plans are just chopping up the entire distance into 3-5 more feasible goals or objectives where you can reassess, make some decisions and continue-on once you obtain it.

From an academic standpoint, I'll do an initial map recon looking for two to three routes that will get me out of the immediate area, with an objective of about 100-150 miles. That's a potentially good consideration or a cache, and routes need to consider by vehicle (primary), bicycle (secondary), or foot travel (worse-case, least desired initially). While traveling on foot is slow and if it's really a worse-case, travel would likely be limited to early mornings and late night travel to avoid detections (again, assuming a very non-permissive situation). With that in mind, there are options of powerlines and railways that seem to be more remote and bypass most residential/commercial areas. Again the goal of that initial plan is to hit that 100-150 miles away, reassess, and make the next decision on CM, sit in place, or return.

The next objective would be another 100-150 miles with a few branches (alternatives) again to account for primary, secondary, and worse-case (on foot) travel; rinse and repeat until home. The map recon will identify problematic areas and choke points like bridges/river crossings, large population centers (biggest challenge), water resources, areas to "stealth camp", all bypass and secondary/tertiary roads to get around threat-areas, etc. Eventually I'll do a physical recon (which will work as I plan on backpacking a few areas long the way).

This whole planning activity will have to be done in phases, but it will give me something to do other than just work, workout, eat, and sleep

I did visit an REI just south of me and I am picking up some backpacking food for some upcoming trips. I will eventually stock up enough for a worse-case 150 mile trek (that's really my limit with what I can and have realistically carried without a resupply). Your point about having to travel further than planned is spot on. Such planning needs flexibility and some margin for error. It could be weather, closed roads/bridges, bypassing loop longer than planned, etc.; while you can't plan for every contingency, you can plan for some margin's of error without "what-if'ing" yourself into paralysis by analysis.

While I'm not against a motorcycle, it's just not the best option after long consideration. Other than the purchase, I would have to get licensed, insured, find a place (nothing close) to really practice and train...not too mention I'm set for maintenance on a bicycle, not a motorcycle; plus storage would be a PITA giving my current living conditions and I would have to purchase a trailer to transport it by car. Again, for some, that's probably a great choice, for me, it would consume the majority of my planning and attention where I just can't justify the investment. Too much in the logistics department for a motorcycle at this stage and for the short term situation, plus I can fold my bike up and carry it in the back of the car. If I was getting stuck here for a few years, it would be a better addition to a longer term emergency bug-home/out plan. Hell, I wish I had my full size truck driving around here vice my wife's tiny Subaru Crosstrek with the traffic insanity...it would be a daily SHTF threat considering a motorcycle!

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Originally Posted by mtnairkin View Post
PS: I'd sure hate to be caught at ground zero.
Agreed 110%!

ROCK6
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Originally Posted by ROCK6 View Post

While I'm not against a motorcycle, it's just not the best option after long consideration. Other than the purchase, I would have to get licensed, insured, find a place (nothing close) to really practice and train...not too mention I'm set for maintenance on a bicycle, not a motorcycle; plus storage would be a PITA giving my current living conditions and I would have to purchase a trailer to transport it by car. Again, for some, that's probably a great choice, for me, it would consume the majority of my planning and attention where I just can't justify the investment. Too much in the logistics department for a motorcycle at this stage and for the short term situation, plus I can fold my bike up and carry it in the back of the car. If I was getting stuck here for a few years, it would be a better addition to a longer term emergency bug-home/out plan. Hell, I wish I had my full size truck driving around here vice my wife's tiny Subaru Crosstrek with the traffic insanity...it would be a daily SHTF threat considering a motorcycle!

ROCK6
With all due respect. I disagree.
You might consider a used Honda CT 90 or 110.
Small, light, quite, reliable, frugal on gas, will go 55 mph on pavement, street legal & go off-road.
Will carry you, a pack & small spare gas can.
I have toted a 1/4 of an elk with one, several times.
Will fit in the trunk of most cars, with the trunk lid secured down with a bungee cord.

If you can ride a bicycle, with an hour or 2 practice, you can master one of these.
They are not a macho machine, but they get the tasks done.

Over the years I have acquired four (4) for our BOL.
We have a BOL crew of 20 & they get a lot of use every year.



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