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Old 09-20-2019, 07:26 PM
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Default SHTF Long Stick: 700 Rem Long Range 30-06 or Tactical 308



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Need a long range stick to fill a hole in the toolbox. My criteria is that whatever I use must have been through a govt testing process( let them burn all the ammo and trash test guns to see when they break). Our scouts used the 700 Rem in the M24 variation, So that fits my criteria.

During the last ammo panic 30-06 was everywhere, no .308 to be found. However, no one makes match 30-06 anymore. Match 308 is common, but will I give up a lot of range going from a 30-06/24-26 inch bbl to a .308/20 inch bbl?

How tough is the Rem 700 Tactical? breakage prone? Any DMR's or scout/snipers here that can give me real world feedback? Glass recommendations?

And yes, I will have iron sights installed, because 1. a chain is only as strong as the fragile glass tube on top of it, and 2. Colonel Cooper was right.

There is a school local to me that offers long distance training, VX Marksmanship. I would like something that can reach out a bit.

Given that I can only shoot so far effectively, I am just trying to plug a hole in my skill set, not engage people at distance.

I originally wanted to use A new condition 1917 Enfield, but I missed out on that deal.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-20-2019, 07:46 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Is your MBR a 30-06 or a .308?

During the ammo scarcity those who stocked up had plenty.


Savage 110 in .308, threaded would be my choice out to the 500-800 range.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:11 PM
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I was poor during the last ammo scarcity. I have a good job now. My MBR is a c308. My go-to carbine is a Eagle-15 with 223 Wylde chamber.

To my knowledge, unless you want to spend $3500 on a Ohio Ordnance H-Car, no MBR exists in 30-06.

I know, Garand, but I am not sure about chasing en-bloc loaders after the fight, if we are talking MBR. (people looked at me like I was nuts when I suggested Ceracoating the loaders white or orange so you could find them later. Can't see them in the pouch or the gun, if you are transferring one to the other you are reloading and they see you anyway.)
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:06 PM
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M1, BM59. (Which has a GREAT folding stock.)
There are others, although IMHO they are more collectable these days.

No need as you've posted your choice.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:24 PM
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I have a Savage 110, a PTR91 and an AR10 all in 308.
I also have a 700 (older ADL) in 30-06.

For SHTF, I still think the '06 has some advantages if you reload. You can download a 100gr for small game, etc... or sling hot 160's for larger animals.

That said, I'll probably be carrying a 308 semi.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
M1, BM59. (Which has a GREAT folding stock.)
There are others, although IMHO they are more collectable these days.

No need as you've posted your choice.
Not necessarily, now. I got the c308 for the cheap mags and ability to shoot cast bullets if need be.

While i don't have experience with the phenomenon, I hear any H&K type, M14, FAL, all destroy optics because of recoil energy from the bolt slamming into the rear of the action. Is this true, or a range myth?

It's mainly the reason I haven't tried to scope the c308 to try it's potential.

The M1 is a scoping nightmare unless you go scout. Not opposed to that in a tanker version, but all the tanker's I have ever seen were 308, as well, I heard there were reliability issues.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:25 PM
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As far as the bolt gun, what parts are high breakage on a 700 rem? Is a 308 reliably capable at a grand?
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:28 PM
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Spend the extra money and get a ruger precision rifle. Half moa out of the box and ready to rock and roll
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:07 PM
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I thought about the RPR, but it hasn't had the hell beaten out of it the last twenty years in the services.

Also, what are the spare parts availability?
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:13 PM
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I thought about the RPR, but it hasn't had the hell beaten out of it the last twenty years in the services.

Also, what are the spare parts availability?
About as much as the 700.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:52 PM
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Shop around online for ammo and have it mailed to your home. You can find just about any ammo that you want to buy. Wolf makes some really decent ammo, some of it in spam cans for LONG term storage needs, that you can purchase. There are all sorts of companies who can supply whatever your little heart desires. Match grade, target grade and regular ammunition can be had through all sorts of suppliers.

Also, consider the .308 Winchester because they're really great shooting rifles. I have a Remington bolt action rifle that I keep in my family of rifles because of it being so accurate and having such a good stopping power behind each shot. My Remington is a VTR and it serves my needs well for what I need it to do.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:56 PM
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7mm Rem Mag is a great long range cartridge IMHO. At 500 yards it still has more velocity and energy than a 30-30 at the muzzle.

As a kid I shot the hell out of a 700 BDL in 308 W. We walked around the training area and picked up free ammo in the form of linked belts up to 9' long that fell out of helicopters.
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Old 09-21-2019, 09:17 AM
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Go with the 308 because it's available, affordable, and shared among other platforms you already have.

Considerations about ballistics at distance are moot. You determine hits past 600m, not your cartridge. The 308 is more than capable of a 1,000m shot, but are you?

The M24 hit a 1,317 yard shot in Iraq with a 308. Famous shot. That guy was a seasoned pro and had been snappin' turbins at 600-800m on the weekly for months at that point.

Sniping is a set of tactics, remember, not a rifle. Get the gun and glass, practice at distances under 800m to start, and then read up on other items. Get in shape, foremost. Ranging, concealment, fallback firing position planning and setup, stalking, etc.

I've heard the plan to sit in the shed and survey your open space with a scope from many (not saying that's your plan, but for the sake of a long post already). Folks tried that in Afghanistan and north Iraq. They're dead now. You'll have to overwatch off-target if that's the proposed role for this rifle, which means there will be other skills needed to employ it properly.
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledPatriot View Post
As far as the bolt gun, what parts are high breakage on a 700 rem? Is a 308 reliably capable at a grand?
Yes. So is 3006, as well as 6.5 CM. Have used all 3 at that distance to dump feral pigs. Used 308 at that distance plus to dump 2 legged critters while deployed. ( Have served as a DMR and a sniper via multiple deployments in the Infantry since you asked, and currently am PSG / scout platoon.
In short here......All 3 have plenty of juice to reliably put down critters at that distance and then some. The consistent part of the equation has more to do with the shooter than anything else.

High breakage parts concerning the M24 series...... None to speak of really. ( We had a few problems with bolt knobs breaking in extreme cold weather if they were exposed to conditions s where they froze solid) That issue has since been resolved......especially if GA Precision builds it for you.

Absolute best long range presicion rifles imo. ...... ( Semi auto or bolt action)

https://www.gaprecision.net/custom-p...on-rifles.html

The other issue was the older optics base. Badger Ordinance 20moa base resolved that issue quite awhile back.

As with any rifle that is to be depended upon, proper PMCS documented via 2404s should be incorporated. This includes the entire package......Optics, bases, rings, suppressors, and especially night vision/ thermal image weapon sights ( TIWS) , if the plan is to use them in periods of limited visibility .

This also includes supporting equipment such as laser range finder, field glasses. ( You wont be using a rifle scope to scan your AOR for long, and it is a waste of an asset)

Back to the rifle itself.........

If this is to be Remington......I would go with thier 700 XCR/ TLR chambered in 308 over a Savage for an out of box factory produced rifle. As much as I like Savage, the Remington would be the more robust choice for extreme conditions overall, and the 700 line has long had well made bases/ rings/ stocks available if you decide to refine that rifle to better fit ALL of your requirements as you refine them thru 1st hand use.

As to 308 vs 3006 and your reasons for comparing them...... Ammo already stocked by you....is what you can honestly count on. ( Either cartridge) If you already stock 308 for your MBR, your logistics support a LRP rifle chambered in same. Have no idea what your ammo budget is, but....the lower your budget = more of a reason to stock 308 instead of 308 AND 3006. Simple really. Your stockpile can support both rifles in a pinch.

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Old 09-21-2019, 11:19 AM
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Not necessarily, now. I got the c308 for the cheap mags and ability to shoot cast bullets if need be.

While i don't have experience with the phenomenon, I hear any H&K type, M14, FAL, all destroy optics because of recoil energy from the bolt slamming into the rear of the action. Is this true, or a range myth?

It's mainly the reason I haven't tried to scope the c308 to try it's potential.

The M1 is a scoping nightmare unless you go scout. Not opposed to that in a tanker version, but all the tanker's I have ever seen were 308, as well, I heard there were reliability issues.
As with most myths, this specific one was brought about via half truths, and outdated information.

Example: The issues with the M14 has been resolved for quite awhile now because of better designed optics mounts. ( Sadlak, SEI, and ARMS18 are 3).

The other issue stemmed from a certain company that produces an M14 clone ( along with scope mounts), but does not or did not always adhere to actual M14 reciever dimensions.

Last = junk optics. If your looking at a low cost optic for this purpose, I would steer clear of the Vortex Crossfire series, and look at the Leupold VXFreedom line instead. ( Especially off a G3 clone.)

On a side note: It is easy to mount optics over the reciever of a BM59 if you use the right mount.......

https://www.classicfirearms.com/bm59...ail-picatinny/

The good news : It is rock solid as it mounts into the rear sight reciever holes itself, and has a built in peep sight to use with the existing front sight.

Bad news: You loose the excellent rear sight assembly by taking this route, and it puts the optic higher off the rifle....which results in a need to utilize a higher comb of some type.

" Scout scopes" have thier own good points and bad points, but I would not utilize this via a dedicated long range precision ( LRP) rifle either.

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Old 09-21-2019, 12:13 PM
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I own both calibers. Neither is the best at ranges beyond 500 yds. If you are limited to a factory rifle, and commercial ammo, I would go with a Rem Sendero in 7mm Rem Mag, or 300 Win Mag. Other great options are offered by Savage, Sako, and Tikka.

If you reload your own ammo, you should consider long range cartrudges that recoil less like, 270 Win, 25-06 and 6.5 CM.
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:15 PM
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I f you not a hand loader and you already have a 308...this is the route I would go in a heart beat for the dollars! Ditch the factory stock on this gun and you are set for about 800 yards unless you just got mad skills! It will do all you need to do, not break the bank, stock up on ammo or learn to reload. The 30-06 only holds water if your going to reload, then it gives you some advantages.

I went a similar route with a 700 VLS 26 inch barrel and just about the same exact recipe as discribed above. The only other addition I made was I put it in a MDT H-3 chasis stock. It will usually comfortably put 3 rounds of Argentine surplus ball ammo under 1 MOA and Federal Match 169gr into about 1/2 MOA.

When I got this gun I was thinking more along the lines of a "bean field rifle" for deer hunting. I chose the 308 winchester due to the fact I have a few MBR in that already and was kinda thinking more of "survival" than I was the flatest shooting round available or sniping/precision shooting. I just wanted a balls on accurate shooter out to 400 yards that still had enough punch to solidly anchor a large deer or hog. I got that now and then some!
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuniticFringeInc View Post
Budget Long Range Rifle that's WAY TOO EASY - Savage 10 FCP-SR with PA 4-14x44 HUD DMR ~ Rex Reviews - YouTube

I f you not a hand loader and you already have a 308...this is the route I would go in a heart beat for the dollars! Ditch the factory stock on this gun and you are set for about 800 yards unless you just got mad skills! It will do all you need to do, not break the bank, stock up on ammo or learn to reload. The 30-06 only holds water if your going to reload, then it gives you some advantages.

I went a similar route with a 700 VLS 26 inch barrel and just about the same exact recipe as discribed above. The only other addition I made was I put it in a MDT H-3 chasis stock. It will usually comfortably put 3 rounds of Argentine surplus ball ammo under 1 MOA and Federal Match 169gr into about 1/2 MOA.

When I got this gun I was thinking more along the lines of a "bean field rifle" for deer hunting. I chose the 308 winchester due to the fact I have a few MBR in that already and was kinda thinking more of "survival" than I was the flatest shooting round available or sniping/precision shooting. I just wanted a balls on accurate shooter out to 400 yards that still had enough punch to solidly anchor a large deer or hog. I got that now and then some!
I have the rifle in the video and vortex scope and it does pretty well.
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Old 09-21-2019, 08:07 PM
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YOU CAN stretch the .308 out to 1000 but you need a 175gr bullet.
I have shot lots of them out to 1000 with all my tight .308s and they work fine.
The Federal GM match load is great for factory made fodder and why complicate your life with different long gun calibers?

As for bolt guns, there are TONS of them out there in .308 built on long and short actions and all bbl configurations.

Savage makes excellent accurate rifles and they have the ability to spin the bbl off to change configurations without needing a gunsmith if you get the extra bbls.

As for "tough".... I would imagine you are not envisioning carrying on to battle with a bolt gun, so how many rounds do you think you will be needing out of the bolt gun? I had over 500 rounds through my Savage 10FP before a good friend cast covetous eyes upon it and on bended knee gave me more money than I paid for it. (the first time he hit steel at 1000 he almost sounded like a kid on his birthday.)

Out of the box it was running 1/2-3/4" groups depending on the ammo. I switched triggers and mounted Shepherd glass on it and found the right load with 175gr SMKs and it kept everything into 1/2" .
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisgruntledPatriot View Post
Not necessarily, now. I got the c308 for the cheap mags and ability to shoot cast bullets if need be.

While i don't have experience with the phenomenon, I hear any H&K type, M14, FAL, all destroy optics because of recoil energy from the bolt slamming into the rear of the action. Is this true, or a range myth?

It's mainly the reason I haven't tried to scope the c308 to try it's potential.

The M1 is a scoping nightmare unless you go scout. Not opposed to that in a tanker version, but all the tanker's I have ever seen were 308, as well, I heard there were reliability issues.
As others mentioned the destroying optics thing is a myth.

We’ve a scoped PTR91 MSG (fluted match barrel) & have run A LOT thru it. No problems.

Now, I did remove the rear sight assembly for scope fitment/decent eye relief. It’s a Leopold, forget which, but in a midrange line. Going to rethink the scope on that one over winter to put the iron sight set back. Won’t be too difficult, just hadn’t set any time aside on thinking it out.

Almost all newer PTR91 versions have a welded on rail, “classic” and various State compliance models set aside.

As towards your initial question of getting a bolt .308? Honestly, no idea, get whatever tickles your fancy. We went with Ruger Precision’s Rifles and Mossberg MVP’s. The RPR’s more geared towards fixed position, the MVP’s more for “scout” type walkabout. PLUS they accept LR SR type AR10 style magazines...

Now for distance.

Best will be to reload, both for cost and to better match your rifle(s). I don’t load rifle for us yet (life keeps getting in the way), but absolutely hope to shortly. NATO 7.62 is priced pretty reasonable (ATM), but MATCH grade stuff will always be spendy...so no reason whatsoever not to reload, unless you simply don’t want to.

Think on what you mentioned about .308 not being available last blight. There’ll be another one...
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