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Old 09-17-2019, 10:34 PM
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Default garden protection under teotwawki



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Finishing up my garden design and I worry that if something bad were to happen anyone could jump the plastic fence and steal my fruit and vegetables. I already save seeds and one of the first things I would do if things get that bad is to also take cuttings of my fruit trees. I have been thinking barbed wire and/or a solar electric fence. That would be totally illegal right now, but after an emp or some other catastrophic event would it be worth it since my husband thinks anyone could just push down those panels? Thank you.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:02 AM
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If things get that bad.... I suspect that I'll be depending on the stealth garden more than the obvious one.

Barbed wire won't stop anyone, and electric fencing is fairly easy to trespass as well.
Fencing is to stop the deer... Critters that burrow under, or carry fencing pliers can not be stopped... Except by trapping / shooting.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:25 AM
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As noted, any fence you could put up, another person could get through. You could plant blackberries around the edges of your garden, those thorns will dissuade all but the most determined thief. And they'll provide berries, too. Or put alarm strings around the garden so you'll know when someone or something is sneaking in. And plant what will take work to get, like potatoes and carrots. But this is a situation that has no easy solution.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:48 AM
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Motion lights are a good idea.
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:33 AM
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My garden is between my barn and house and will have regular overwatch assuming everyone is able to make it to my location. I’m trying to develop a more advanced “pebbles in soda cans” trip wire warning system to assist the on duty guards in knowing that the garden is being accessed. My initial prototype involved strings and pulleys attached to a bell inside my main lookout location. It worked and was easy to set up but wasn’t perfect.

I also have an unopened pack of small solar lanterns that will provide enough light into the garden to make a shot. I would like to improve this but do not have a formal solar setup right now. My concern with these is that they may attract unwanted attention. I may not use these.

In full on SHTF, I’m not worried about the critters (coons rabbits & deer) that cause me so much grief in current state. The watchtower will have a 22 at the ready.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:30 PM
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I have thought about the above topic many times. I normally raise a big garden, but have cut back due to plenty vegetables canned up and stored. I have grown gardens at different locations and the neighbors just helped themselves to vegetables they liked, leaving most alone. They done more damage than varmints. So, I give that up.
Most neighbors don't really know how to cook or process raw food/vegetables. Sounds laughable, but it's true. I'm not sure what will happen when the tin can food disappears. Just glad they have pop top lids.
Right now I have oodles of tomatoes, but 99% have a bad spot, nobody wants them. But I'm eating the heck out of em.
I used to sell sweet corn. I found that if there was a worm or bug in the silk or kernels, it was all tossed and they bitched about it. Hmmmmm
If there is any work to the harvesting, I would say they will pass bye most gardens. Or just let it grow up with morning glory, hog weeds and such to camouflage it.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:36 PM
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I'm thinking that out of sight out of mind would be better if you can. We're rural here and it would be pretty simple to place the garden where it can't be seen from the road or even the driveway.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:50 PM
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garden protection under teotwawki: The equivalent of teotwawki relative to food occurs often in third world countries. Africa with refugees will have heartbreaking scenes of starving children trying to obtain food in the shambas (gardens) of local people. The refugee children are starving, but if they are allowed to feed off that garden, the family that owns that garden will starve. Typically the locals with heavy mattocks, axes, or with what ever is handy drive the children off often killing or wounding them.
The point is with real hunger you will have people roaming the woods looking for anything to eat. Your Crypto garden may well get attention. I doubt that you can get enough calories out of a crypto garden small enough to be hidden in the woods. It takes a fairly large garden to support a person. You want the garden to be near your home. If you want to eat you better figure out a way to keep others from raiding it. After discouraging the first raiders, putting their heads on stakes and other remains hanging from the trees might get the message across.
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Old 09-18-2019, 12:58 PM
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Tanglefoot wire inside the fence using barbed wire and pop or beer cans attached with pebbles inside each. At night it’s invisible, it’s alway activated and it’s load. Works on four legged raiders too. A rug or canvas tarp defeats it, hence, the cans.
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:35 PM
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Something like a gooseberry hedge would be a deterant with its thorns as well and more readily managed than blackberry maybe . And perhaps planting in a manner that looks more ornamental, especially around the edges and less recognizable as a food garden. Plants like hosta are edible greens and even I forget that and fail to harvest from them at times . Take a careful look at your bylaws, what is allowed for fencing and try to plan for the best possible fencing in a manner that perhaps can be added to if your security becomes more compromised . Start erecting it bit by bit as you can . I think the motion lights and trip wire that makes an audible sound to say alert a dog is an excellent idea mentioned by others . Maybe reconfiguring a run around the garden you can let the dogs access at night?
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:46 PM
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I have two fences. Outer one is tall to keep the dogs in the yard and people safe from them, inner one about ten feet inside is shorter to keep the dogs out of the garden. This dog run area around the garden lets them run around the perimeter to chase raccoons (or people) who would otherwise make a hash of the garden. Before I did this I did loose some obvious things like tomatoes. Sometimes it was just punks who vandalized, sometimes it was idiots who thought it was free, since it was just sitting there outside. (Really, what one lady told me when I turned the hose on her for tramping in my yard.)
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Old 09-18-2019, 01:54 PM
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Consider growing a few “camouflage-gardens” which contain highly nutritious plants that most people would not recognize as food, but are regarded as delicacies in other parts of the world. Also, consider planting patches of native wild plants that are often more nutritious than anything grown in typical gardens. Good sources of these seeds include https://www.rareseeds.com/ and https://strictlymedicinalseeds.com/. There's more here: https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...d.php?t=896374

As you can expect during hard times after a severe and prolonged disaster event, regular conventional food gardens WILL be raided by hungry thieves. If you have a camouflage garden, you will outwit thieves who think you are growing ornamental plants, not food. Bonus: HOA friendly!

The best part? Stealth gardens require very little upkeep. For years, I have enjoyed food from camouflage gardens that are delicious, nutritious, and super easy to grow.

(I'm working on a publication that outlines the what, where, and hows of stealth gardening without the need for tilling, maintenance, store-bought pesticides and fertilizers, etc. I will be announcing it here: https://twitter.com/GrizzlyeteAdams)

Also, there are tons of threads on this board about such things. You can plug in the names of certain plants that you find in those threads into a search engine and learn how to use them in your area.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlyetteAdams View Post
Consider growing a few “camouflage-gardens” which contain highly nutritious plants that most people would not recognize as food...As you can expect during hard times after a severe and prolonged disaster event, regular conventional food gardens WILL be raided by hungry thieves. If you have a camouflage garden, you will outwit thieves who think you are growing ornamental plants, not food...
Exactly. I would probably have some semblance of the usual garden and the absence of anything left to grab would perhaps tell others that it was there, it's gone and move on. The real eats would be planted around the property and unless someone was familiar with vegetables, they wouldn't know that they were looking at. No rows. No markers. Nothing that looked like a garden except the already ravaged areas. A couple of collard and kale plants here and there, sweet potato vines or field pea vines running on the border of an unmaintained area, Roselle and Jerusalem artichokes looking like wild stuff, etc.

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I'm working on a publication that outlines the what, where, and hows of stealth gardening without the need for tilling, maintenance, store-bought pesticides and fertilizers, etc. I will be announcing it here: https://twitter.com/GrizzlyeteAdams)
Any chance you could announce it here too for those of us who studiously avoid Twitter and Facebook and want no part of them?
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:18 PM
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Alarm systems.....and guns.

Passive defenses like fences, walls, etc are only there to delay attackers until defenders can fight them, on there own no passive defense is going to be effective.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Weedinhoe View Post

Any chance you could announce it here too for those of us who studiously avoid Twitter and Facebook and want no part of them?
If it is allowed, I would love to! (Which subforum? Maybe the gardening one?)

But I'm not sure if such an announcement would be allowed... Mods? Please advise.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:28 PM
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Blackberries around the garden wouldn't deter a hungry person... Hardy orange and maclura pomifera (Osage orange) do make a thicket that would deter most people... You'd need to carry a chainsaw to get in... Of course... Anyone that has scouted out the garden would likely come prepared.

When they find your main garden... Suggest that you have experience cooking the plants in the stealth garden...

Have you tried cooking with evening primrose, yet?
Canna tubers?
How about smilax tips?
I hope you have a nice stand of lambsquarter going... The seeds are a passable grain in the cold season...
And still.... That isn't much food... Probably be a lot of competition for those road kill deer...
Probably have to hold your nose and eat the raccoons, possums, and armadillo... Can't imagine running short of those any time soon....

Grizzlyette, you can add your website to your profile... Anyone clicking your name will see it... (click my name!)

Nobody complains when we mention a specific post dealing with a specific subject under discussion.... Most of us post an occasional link when it helps make our point...

....
Or... Did you mean... A book?

Still seems relevant....
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:14 PM
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I used to be amazed that people feel that if they can see fruit or vegetables that it’s ok to come on to someone’s property to help themselves. I say used to because these days I’m not surprised at all. I have a friend whose neighbors go into his garden and clean him out. They also help themselves to his hay and tractors whenever they “need” to. He has a 10 foot fence and gates and has told them they are welcome to borrow but they need to ask. The next day his garden is stripped clean again. Short of shooting them I think it’s pretty hard to keep someone out.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:08 PM
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Out of sight = out of mind.

That is exactly why the off-grid BOL 18.86 acres we bought is very isolated, 15 miles to a single neighbor & and additional 15 miles to a few more.

2ndly, no buildings at our BOL can be seen from the road & our driveway is securely gated.

Our fenced garden is 2 acres in size, gravity flow irrigated & relatively sustainable.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st0n3 View Post
...Have you tried cooking with evening primrose, yet? Canna tubers? How about smilax tips?...
Thank you! I didn't know about canna and smilax. Lord knows I have enough smilax around here. I just looked that up and will get some smilax tips tomorrow to try.

Let's not forget kudzu. Leaves, flowers, vine tips and roots. Bottom of the page:
https://www.survival-manual.com/edible-plants/kudzu.php
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
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Let's not forget kudzu. Leaves, flowers, vine tips and roots. Bottom of the page:
https://www.survival-manual.com/edible-plants/kudzu.php
I don't know anyone that has actually eaten kudzu... Everyone talks about it, but nobody posts about the experience of personally consuming it.

I have read personal experiences with the plants I listed.... And... Those discussions motivated me enough to experiment.

Adding canna tubers to my roadkill venison soup... May as well be taters...
Cooking with evening primrose... Similar to cooking sweet potato leaves... But you gotta work with the young plants during the cold weather.

Eating smilax? I graze the tips out in the field... I tried green deans recipe... And didn't like it... Much better raw.

Those spiny cucumbers showed up in my garden last year courtesy of the raccoons or possums... Or maybe even a feral cat... Really didn't look like food... But after researching them, was pleasantly surprised... Picked enough to pickle last week... Found a ton of recipes online... Basically half vinegar half water, and whatever spices for taste... Made vinegary pickles.... Shared them around... Some people thought too much vinegar, other people thought... Real good...
I thought... They cut the greasy coating on my tongue from those deer ribs... Just right.
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