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Old 09-17-2019, 12:41 AM
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
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Default Can any equivalence be made between EMP and lighting strikes?



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If not, still a cool video.


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Old 09-17-2019, 02:36 AM
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No. But it's extremely unusual for lightening to hit a car. The tires should provide a lot of insulation that would make it a very unattractive target. Strange.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Colt View Post
No. But it's extremely unusual for lightening to hit a car. The tires should provide a lot of insulation that would make it a very unattractive target. Strange.
With all due respect, that is incorrect. The protection a motor vehicle would provide is from approximating a Faraday cage. Considering the arc just bridged a gap of potientially miles, the air gap between car and ground would be insignificant.

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Old 09-17-2019, 06:16 AM
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But it is unusual for lightning to strike a car.

I don't think there is an equivalency between a lightning strike and an EMP. One is a directly focused jolt, while the other is widespread electromagnetic frequency pulse. If there was an equivalency, we'd all lose our electronic devices whenever an electrical storm occurs. Things are not going to burst into flames with an EMP. It will simply fry unprotected microcircuits.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
But it is unusual for lightning to strike a car.

I don't think there is an equivalency between a lightning strike and an EMP. One is a directly focused jolt, while the other is widespread electromagnetic frequency pulse. If there was an equivalency, we'd all lose our electronic devices whenever an electrical storm occurs. Things are not going to burst into flames with an EMP. It will simply fry unprotected microcircuits.
If it's flowing electricity, there is a magnetic field associated with it. Size matters...

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Old 09-17-2019, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by thequintessentialman View Post
With all due respect, that is incorrect. The protection a motor vehicle would provide is from approximating a Faraday cage. Considering the arc just bridged a gap of potientially miles, the air gap between car and ground would be insignificant.

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Lightening requires conductivity from ground upward to initiate. A downward and upward stream of charged particles connect. With the insulated tires resisting the upward current the car produces a stream that is much shorter than other objects around it without that insulation. The lightening coming down then selects the much taller current stream from the physically shorter object next to the vehicle instead of the vehicle.

It's possible for a vehicle to be struck, but it is a very unattractive target. It's simply a very low probability occurrence. The concrete barrier next to the vehicle should have been a much better target. I wonder if the vehicle wasn't dragging a loose cable or something.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:12 PM
Aerindel Aerindel is offline
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Rare indeed but a surprising number of strikes on cars on video:




https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2014/0...moving-car.ctv






This is interesting as well:



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A great deal of damage takes place in the electrical systems and the electronics when a vessel is actually struck by lighting. But what many do not understand is that lighting can cause extensive damage even when the lightning does not directly strike the vessel.

Some would properly ask, how is this possible.

The answer lies in the nature of what is referred to as an EMP ( Electro Magnetic Pulse). Lightning is a very high voltage discharge with an extremely high current. This high current in turn produces a corresponding magnetic field. This is very broad spectrum , from very-low-frequency ( VLF ) radio to ultraviolet ( UV ) wavelengths.

This field is able to induce currents in any electrical conductor, even inside electronic devices for which there is no protection. These are not "line surges" that a surge protector can save you from but huge magnetic fields that can induce fields and currents inside devices and along wires such as the vessels power wiring, wiring interconnecting instruments including masthead sensors, radio antennas and of course autopilots. The fact that some of these devices are never "off" exacerbates the problem.

A lightning strike produces a localized EMP that gives rise to large electrical currents in nearby wires. A single current surge can damage sensitive hardware such as radios and instruments. All electronic systems should have some form of protection against the effects of an EMP. Transient suppressors, also called surge protectors, offer limited protection against the EMPs that typically occur during thunderstorms. The best method of protection is to unplug all AC cords and disconnect as many electronic devices as possible during storage and when leaving the vessel unattended especially when they are not in use in lightning prone areas.
http://www.alphamarinesystems.com/li...emp_damage.htm
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:45 PM
Herd Sniper Herd Sniper is offline
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An EMP covers a large area with its strike and is a short duration pulse. A lightning strike is a pinpoint almost precision linear strike against one object. Where a lightning bolt might strike a lone car an EMP would strike the whole area, say the entire city, around the car as well as the car.

To date lightning strikes are a natural occurrence while EMP strikes can be either natural or man-made events.

Both types of hits can be grounded against if you know what you're doing and plan ahead. Let's say that you want to secure a simple 40 channel CB radio from any sort of electrical discharge. What do you do?

If you wrap that radio in the proper protective coating or insulation, put it inside a protective metal can which is grounded below ground level and you might stand a pretty decent chance of having something work when things go bad. The key is thinking ahead and taking corrective action before needing to do so.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt View Post
No. But it's extremely unusual for lightening to hit a car. The tires should provide a lot of insulation that would make it a very unattractive target. Strange.
Tires wet, = reasonable conductor. Especially low profile tires where the gap is only 3 inches. Even as an airgap alone, it does not take many 10K's of voltage to jump 3 inches. It traveled miles already. I would get the tires checked for damage. I witnessed a car getting hit right in front of me once. It is unusual. Why that car and not the next.
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Old 09-21-2019, 08:22 AM
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Lightning is a visible balancing of electrons between one surface and another (cloud to ground, ground to cloud - take your pick). Lightening is a very localized event.

EMP (the Carleson effect) is composed of Gamma rays produced by an atomic/hydrogen explosion set off at varying distances from the earth (this low earth orbit - hundreds and not thousands of miles above the earth, or a mass coronal ejection from the sun. For man made EMP, distance from the surface determines the "event horizon" or, how widespread the damage.

WW

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Old 09-22-2019, 01:14 PM
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In my PERSONAL experience, I was inside a F150 (or was it a Cheyenne? sorry can't remember) But a lighting made ground about 25 meters far away and the truck shot down...at 50 kms hour and raining.
My definitive answer is yes, a lighting can make ground on your car and fry your electronics, and leaving you stranded.

Don't tell me it can't happen because almost happened to ME. Our guard angels were alert that day, as nothing resulted damaged and we could continue to get out of the middle of nowhere.
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Old 09-22-2019, 01:49 PM
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Lightning struck a relative's car a few years ago. Fried every electrical device in the car. Insurance totaled the car even though the outside looked pristine.
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Old 09-22-2019, 04:39 PM
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When the work truck I was driving was hit by lighting it stalled but I was able to restart it. It burned off the antenna for the two way radio on the cab roof of the pickup truck and messed up the paint on the roof. The car radio lost it's presets, the roof had a 1 inch hole that had to be fixed, the two-way radio worked after the antenna was replaced. I was startled and seeing spots from the flash for about a minute before I could drive.
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Old 09-22-2019, 07:37 PM
Henrykjr Henrykjr is offline
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I live here in Florida and have had the house hit more than a few times by lightning.

So is what you can expect from a direct lighting strike. Your flat screen TV will loose resistors on the power supply the TV will not turn on. You AC unit will loose some of its electronics and will not run. If you are not running an APC backup battery bank with built in surge protection you will loose anything that has a switching power supply....router, modem, and computer power supplies. If you have an APC power supply it will blow it and save the electonics downstream. Cable boxes toast. Your alarm main board maybe. Sprinkler brain toast.

Hot water heater elements maybe.

The strike will not bake electronics that are turned off and not plugged in. Generally anything battery operated will be usable.

A real EMP would have a worse effect.

Hope this helps.
HK
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Old 09-23-2019, 05:44 AM
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Energy comparison:

Lightning bolt = Standard bowling ball. Would suck to get hit with that.

EMP (Coronal Mass Ejection) = MOON sized bowling ball. Yeah...

Or, another one:

Lightning bolt 5,000,000,000 Joules

Large Nuclear Bomb (EMP): 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 Joules
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:10 PM
franklin franklin is offline
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The E2 surge from an NEMP is very much like a powerful lightening strike. Actually there would be many simultaneous strikes across the impacted area. Exactly how many and how substantial depends on a lot of variables. Even the weather at the time.
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