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Old 09-13-2019, 11:00 AM
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S&W went through a series of owners that were not firearm/sporting goods related companies. Thomkins PLC, a British company, was the one that did the most harm to S&W's reputation.

Colt, on the other hand, seems intent on doing themselves in.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:02 AM
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`


S&W was worse when back in the late '90's/early 2K's they started selling ONLY to Military & Police (that's where M&P comes from) AND any S&W dealer could not sell ANY brand guns to civilians or they'd lose their S&W dealership. So not only were they not going to sell their guns to civilians, they were trying to get dealers to not sell any guns of any brand to civilians. A couple years later, they changed their mind, started putting out cheap junk & people can't get enough of it. Especially the stuff stamped "M&P" people I guess love that slap in the face cause I guess they feel like now they are Military and/or Police.

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Many here are not old enough to remember this, but Smith and Wesson made a deal with the Clinton Admin in 1994.

They were trying to protect themselves from the new background check, magazine limits, and handgun regulations being written.
They actually modified their revolvers to add a key lock safety on the hammer of their revolvers.
Hate to say this, but Smith threw gun owners under the buss 25 yrs ago.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:21 AM
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Many here are not old enough to remember this, but Smith and Wesson made a deal with the Clinton Admin in 1994.

They were trying to protect themselves from the new background check, magazine limits, and handgun regulations being written.
They actually modified their revolvers to add a key lock safety on the hammer of their revolvers.
Hate to say this, but Smith through gun owners under the buss 25 yrs ago.
Picking nits, Smith and Wesson did not do the deal with the devil. Smith and Wesson's British owners did the deal to protect their investment. Thomkins acquired S&W in 1987 then sold it in 2001.
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:10 PM
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I'm sure this will help get them out of bankruptcy. Glad the only colt stuff I have are mags & a few odd parts.
`


https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/co...retail-market/
`


Colt Stops Production of Long Guns for Retail Market - YouTube

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I think, perhaps, a lot of people in this thread are taking a business decision as though it were a personal attack. All Colt has done is decided that the AR market is now too competitive for them to make any money in, so they are leaving it to other, more agile competitors.

Imagine that you were the first to produce a particular product, but when it could no longer be patent protected, everybody and their uncle started making generic copies, but without the sunk costs that you had in the process. Would you try to outcompete every newcomer, or simply fo us on other products that make you money?
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge View Post
I think, perhaps, a lot of people in this thread are taking a business decision as though it were a personal attack. All Colt has done is decided that the AR market is now too competitive for them to make any money in, so they are leaving it to other, more agile competitors.

Imagine that you were the first to produce a particular product, but when it could no longer be patent protected, everybody and their uncle started making generic copies, but without the sunk costs that you had in the process. Would you try to outcompete every newcomer, or simply fo us on other products that make you money?
Sunk Costs are just that. Leaving the market doesnt make them go away. It just means that while they may have pioneered the design, something in their processes or strategies can't keep up with the competition.
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
This is incorrect.

They have long term contracts with unions that KILLS THEM and makes their costs MUCH higher on several AR platform's..

I agree that they need to move, that would solve most of their problems, but they have **** management and have all my life.

I agree this is likely economic, not political
Agreed. I mean, move already...
Cut the union ties and make it as a company. It's really that simple.
Colt would thrive in FL, or TX, or TN, or where ever.
Not now though. They've decided on suicide.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge View Post
I think, perhaps, a lot of people in this thread are taking a business decision as though it were a personal attack. All Colt has done is decided that the AR market is now too competitive for them to make any money in, so they are leaving it to other, more agile competitors.

Imagine that you were the first to produce a particular product, but when it could no longer be patent protected, everybody and their uncle started making generic copies, but without the sunk costs that you had in the process. Would you try to outcompete every newcomer, or simply fo us on other products that make you money?
Yet they will sell to police and military
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:19 PM
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I think they should focus on 1911 s and revolvers.
I had kind of wanted a colt ar15. But the quality has gone down and they cost too much for what you get.
Yeah that's what's going keep you in business is relics bought a few NRA guys. They need to feature out and come up with new ideas. At least keltech and others attempt that
Korth is doing fine. So is Kimber. So is Nighthawk customs etc. people will keep buying revolvers for decades. And they will pay a premium for a decent revolver. Look at the K6. People will buy fancy 1911s and similar guns. These are high margin items where colt has an advantage, as opposed to trying to make another striker fired polymer handgun. .

Colt should give customers what they want from colt. Delta Elites , snake guns etc. when they do that they win.
The new King Cobra is getting great reviews. It looks like they did something right there.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:20 PM
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Korth is doing fine. So is Kimber. So is Nighthawk customs etc. people will keep buying revolvers for decades. And they will pay a premium for a decent revolver. Look at the K6. People will buy fancy 1911s and similar guns. These are high margin items where colt has an advantage, as opposed to trying to make another striker fired polymer handgun. .

Colt should give customers what they want from colt. Delta Elites , snake guns etc. when they do that they win.
The new King Cobra is getting great reviews. It looks like they did something right there.
Wonder how many people they employ
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge View Post
I think, perhaps, a lot of people in this thread are taking a business decision as though it were a personal attack. All Colt has done is decided that the AR market is now too competitive for them to make any money in, so they are leaving it to other, more agile competitors.

Imagine that you were the first to produce a particular product, but when it could no longer be patent protected, everybody and their uncle started making generic copies, but without the sunk costs that you had in the process. Would you try to outcompete every newcomer, or simply fo us on other products that make you money?


Perhaps your right but I purchased one of their MARC series rifles and it didn't work and it took nearly a month and a half to get a response from them so I could send the rifle in for repair.
My impression is we are regarded as the hoi polloi nothing more, however it is their business to run or ruin.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:49 PM
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`

All this is making me really want to add a few pony's to my collection.


.





`
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:11 PM
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`

All this is making me really want to add a few pony's to my collection.


.





`
Considering how many lowers I have seen Andersen has been spot on. The only other lower is the std for tighter tolerances.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:47 PM
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`

All this is making me really want to add a few pony's to my collection.


.





`
Poverty ponies for the win!
Buy a dozen or two. It's why we have credit cards....
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:14 AM
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I hated my issue M-16, I never thought they were good rifles.
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:51 AM
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Poverty ponies for the win!
Buy a dozen or two. It's why we have credit cards....
Damn right. I'm not paying $400 for a piece of aluminum just because It has Aero Precision on it.

The last "good" lower I bought was a Noreen Arms and my gunsmith had to straighten out the threads for the grip screw.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:51 AM
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Damn right. I'm not paying $400 for a piece of aluminum just because It has Aero Precision on it.

The last "good" lower I bought was a Noreen Arms and my gunsmith had to straighten out the threads for the grip screw.
`

Not what I wanted to hear. I have a Noreen AR-10/308 80% lower waiting for me to work on. I hope it's not F'd up.

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Old 09-14-2019, 01:55 AM
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Poverty ponies for the win!
Buy a dozen or two. It's why we have credit cards....
`

A full dozen my FFL would charge me more than the $20/box he charges right now, even if all 12 were in 1 box. I've ordered them in batches of 4 & 5 so it only ends up being $4 or $5 FFL fee per lower. He said if it's 10+ in a box, then he'll charge more. Between those, a few TN Arms polymers & a few 80% I am fairly well stocked, but if I did order more, it would probably be 80% lowers from here on out.

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Old 09-14-2019, 08:20 AM
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Damn right. I'm not paying $400 for a piece of aluminum just because It has Aero Precision on it.

The last "good" lower I bought was a Noreen Arms and my gunsmith had to straighten out the threads for the grip screw.
Its just a taps bit. Not super hard to do. It's all the same.

Want more accuracy? True the upper receiver and have them square it off..
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:49 AM
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This is a business decision not a second amendment decision. Clearly Colt sees better more reliable sales via the defense industry. I do not know the variable cost for converting production lines from full-auto to semi-auto and back or carrying two separate production lines. There is some cost there. There is also big cost in the ups and downs of the retail market. Even my pawn shop friend says the AK business both on price and demand has went to nothing. That overhead cost to manufacturers continues. Then there is import competition. Add to that the growing risk and cost of AGs nation wide and litigation.

Anyone that does not give some thought to the liabilities of what they do in their life is a fool. For a gun manufacturer this is a growing risk and cost. This is being done t them not something they can choose.

As disappointing as this may be one cannot fault Colt. It is a choice be profitable or be out of business.

As for me I always thought of Colt as a hand gun company who also makes long guns. So this does not bother me as much as some.

Things like this do not have a large impact on which brand of gun I buy. However all other things being equal because of this I will look at Colt for my next new handgun.

What ever you think of this decision we will be worse off with one less gun manufactured especially US manufacturer. As you should know from history the easiest thing for the anti-gun people to pass is a ban on imports.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:57 AM
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FYI Colt is a private company.
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