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Old 09-13-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
Its not the only source but it is the closest , cheapest and safest, all thanks to the EU you hate so much. For three decades trucks full of fresh, subsidized food have been rolling into UK non stop, 40% of the food you consume. If you think you can all of a sudden do without that you are clinically insane.
And by the way, of course the EU would crush UK if they would go to war. Not that there would be any need. They havent left yet and they are as divided as they've ever been, much closer to a civil war than a war with the EU.
If you think that the EU would stop suppliers selling to the UK, then ...that's a trade embargo. Why would any sane person suggest that? The EU might set up trade barriers to make it impossible for UK to sell to the EU. But, as I'm sure you're aware, it's a big world, with lots of people selling stuff. Of course there would be difficulties and dislocations, but we'd cope. Don't use words like 'destroy' if you mean 'inflict temporary and minor economic difficulty'.

The EU could crush the UK militarily if they all worked together. You'd have to use the French, Polish, Romanian, Dutch, Italian and Spanish amphibious capability to seize a beach-head, then use the French and Polish forces to develop the bridgehead and conquer the rest of the country. I think we can disregard the Bundeswehr, after the contribution of the next President of the European Commission. The amphibious force would amount to maybe a division at best. While you were getting this ready we would, of course, be looking the other way, drinking tea and chatting about the cricket.

I suppose you could try a special forces operation to seize the Channel Tunnel and then drive across to Folkestone, at sort notice, but by the time the Poles had driven across Germany with their armoured divisions we might have noticed a sudden influx of undocumented immigrants in green suits. Or maybe not. who knows what chaos a No-Deal Brexit could unleash?

Maybe you could do an airborne operation to seize Heathrow. Fly in a bunch of infantry in airliners and expand from there. Could work. Do it on a Sunday, when the RAF are having the day off.

You see, standing together in a trade negotiation is one thing. Putting together a 27-nation coalition to fight an aggressive war against a nation that doesn't give up easily, and is better armed than nine tenths of the countries on your side, while your victim fails to notice your preparations, requires the kind of deception plan that the D-Day planners could only dream of.
Its not an embargo and its not a sanction. Its you leaving with no deal and no longer having the free flow of subsidized, cheap quality produce you've grown used to for the last 30 years. (And obviously taken for granted, showing no appreciation)
As you correctly stated, its a big old world out there. Go out and buy your food from US, Canada and China. Last time I heard Boris Johnson was working on a deal buying beef from Argentina. Best of luck with that, I hear its a safe, stable, completely not bonkers country you can relly on....
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:25 AM
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Its not an embargo and its not a sanction. Its you leaving with no deal and no longer having the free flow of subsidized, cheap quality produce you've grown used to for the last 30 years. (And obviously taken for granted, showing no appreciation)
As you correctly stated, its a big old world out there. Go out and buy your food from US, Canada and China. Last time I heard Boris Johnson was working on a deal buying beef from Argentina. Best of luck with that, I hear its a safe, stable, completely not bonkers country you can relly on....
You mistake 'trade under the terms of a favourable trade agreement' for 'any trade at all'. I have three bottles of Argentine Malbec in my wine rack this moment. Why should I fear Argentinian beef?

I say again, why should EU firms not sell to to the UK if there is not a deal? It may be that the EU producers are no longer offering the best deal, but that's not the same thing.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:45 AM
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Sort of answering my own question (since the rest of you are too busy arguing to do it): It appears if Johnson gives the two finger salute to Parliament, nobody is quite sure what's going to happen but it won't be good.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49683797

I can't see Johnson asking for an extension since his whole deal is "Brexit, now". And the EU apparently sees no reason to come up with any other deal than the one they've offered. I hope this gets over with sometime in my lifetime.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sorry-no-clues View Post

You see, standing together in a trade negotiation is one thing. Putting together a 27-nation coalition to fight an aggressive war against a nation that doesn't give up easily, and is better armed than nine tenths of the countries on your side, while your victim fails to notice your preparations, requires the kind of deception plan that the D-Day planners could only dream of.
Also should be mentioned the obvious. Ferfal is full of ****e living in a fantasy land.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:54 AM
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I'm an American, and not unaware that the media spins stuff all over the place. I'm sure as hell not going to surf CNN with my query, I'd prefer to get it from the horse's mouth. That would be you guys, being British Citizens.

As I understand it, the majority of you voted to leave the EU a few years back. (And good on you for that imo, I'm in favor of national sovereignty, myself.) But every time I turn around, I read that Great Britain leaving the EU has been postponed for one reason or another, or that one of your high ranking politicians has resigned.

Give it to me straight, here. What's going on?

Are you guys going to finally leave in October?

What's up?
Just curious, why are you against 28 sovereign nations working together under the European Union, yet you dont have no problem with 50 non-sovereign States under the thumb of one central federal government.
Simple, those 50 states ELECTED thier reps, those 28 are subject to unelected, unaccountable administrators in Brussels. Who has authority to fire any or all of them for cause if needs be?
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:48 AM
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:49 AM
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Simple, those 50 states ELECTED thier reps, those 28 are subject to unelected, unaccountable administrators in Brussels. Who has authority to fire any or all of them for cause if needs be?
You're misinformed. EU citizens vote to elect memebers of the European Parliament.
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Old 09-13-2019, 09:54 AM
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You mistake 'trade under the terms of a favourable trade agreement' for 'any trade at all'. I have three bottles of Argentine Malbec in my wine rack this moment. Why should I fear Argentinian beef?

I say again, why should EU firms not sell to to the UK if there is not a deal? It may be that the EU producers are no longer offering the best deal, but that's not the same thing.

Glad you enjoy your Malbec. "Fear" is a strong word, but objectively speaking Argentina is well known for its corruption and its about to elect one of its most corrupt governments in its hisotry, efectively turning the country into Venezuela. Not the kind of country I'd trust, as much as it pains me to admit it.
There's talks of leaving without a deal meaning you wont pay the 39 billion you are due. IF you default on your debts and refuse to pay your bills its hard to see why the EU would want to keep trading with you.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:16 AM
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Sort of answering my own question (since the rest of you are too busy arguing to do it): It appears if Johnson gives the two finger salute to Parliament, nobody is quite sure what's going to happen but it won't be good.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49683797

I can't see Johnson asking for an extension since his whole deal is "Brexit, now". And the EU apparently sees no reason to come up with any other deal than the one they've offered. I hope this gets over with sometime in my lifetime.
We didn't answer because there is no answer to give, nobody knows what will happen. The EU won't change their offer, because Parliament keeps making it clear they don't have too. Johnson won't accept their offer, because that's why he was chosen by his party to be PM.

I just hope this is resolved in my children's lifetimes.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:21 AM
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There's talks of leaving without a deal meaning you wont pay the 39 billion you are due. IF you default on your debts and refuse to pay your bills its hard to see why the EU would want to keep trading with you.
If individuals or businesses chose not to trade with UK, then so be it. If the EU orders people not to trade with UK, then I must refer you to my previous answers.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:25 AM
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Simple, those 50 states ELECTED thier reps, those 28 are subject to unelected, unaccountable administrators in Brussels. Who has authority to fire any or all of them for cause if needs be?
We have no power of recall for MEP's, and the members of the European Commission, which writes the laws, are not elected. The European Parliament just rubber-stamps them.
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Old 09-13-2019, 10:48 AM
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Youre talking personal suppositions of yours, what ifs and wishful thinking. The statement was that UK could beat the EU and thats simply not true given forces each side has. EU 27 has had no problem in dealing with Brexit as a unified block and present a reasonable leave deal while UK is ripping itself apart unable to agree on what they want. I wouldnt keep underestimating the level of understanding and cooperation within the EU.
Well as long as you don't count all the unruly Peasants in yellow vests than, Maybe.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:29 AM
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Simple, those 50 states ELECTED thier reps, those 28 are subject to unelected, unaccountable administrators in Brussels. Who has authority to fire any or all of them for cause if needs be?
Well, they are elected by country, even just recently (may 26 to be precise).
They are held responsible by their voters, just like your congressmen. You might not realize this, but the EU is actually based on the US system used for the states, but with higher sovereignty (no, not the same, but based on). Yes, there are regulations which need to be followed, but the laws are still made per country. Every country is still a monarchy, republic, whatever it was before, with it's own congress, with it's own leader, with it's own judges.
Every country is still an autonomous nation in the EU. Brexit kinda illustrates that: do we want the UK to leave: no, why would we? But if they want to leave, they can.
What happened the last time some states wanted to leave the US? What would happen now if a state wanted to leave the US?

So, who has the power to fire any or all of your congressmen if needs be? Not heard many stories of actual politicians anywhere getting fired. Caught in scandals and "resigning", sure. But getting thrown out of their party, while they're in congress (or parliament, or any system in the world anywhere), pretty rare.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:52 PM
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Start by figuring out how to not starve to death if you no longer get 40% of the food currently imported from the EU.
Then pick up a calculator and do your numbers again. The question was can UK beat the entire EU and the anwer is no it cant, thats retarded.
https://youtu.be/WMpDn9VIDLM
I am an American engineer and I spent 32 yrs developing and building the very weapon systems used by Nato and non Nato European countries. Without Nato Satelite intel, Airlift, and Command Communications, the EU could not pick its own nose.

The United States is trying very hard not to get drug into this, but we will not allow any Nato Country to attack any other Nato country. We will not allow any trade disruptions between the EU and GB to harm the British people either. If the EU wants to keep their food and energy exports, the US has plenty of excess grain, livestock, and LNG to offer.

Its up to Great Britian to figgure out how to execute the Brexit decision. I'm willing to bet the English end up in 10 yrs, better than mainland Europe. It looks like Europe is headed for a deflational death spiral. Thats another thing the US is trying not to get drug into.
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:16 PM
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Why doesn't the EU just threaten to Nuke them if they follow through with the leave? Come on FerFal you're better than that. Reducing the conversation to how you'd punish members who decide to leave the EU with economic blockages and starvation, because the EU isn't what they thought it was going to be when the joined. Are you secretly German or something?

If you're thinking it, Brussels has probably been thinking it, so all you're doing is convincing those of us on the sidelines that leaving is the smart thing for the UK. Who wants to belong to an unelected organization held together by threats.
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Old 09-13-2019, 01:23 PM
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Simple, those 50 states ELECTED thier reps, those 28 are subject to unelected, unaccountable administrators in Brussels. Who has authority to fire any or all of them for cause if needs be?
We have no power of recall for MEP's, and the members of the European Commission, which writes the laws, are not elected. The European Parliament just rubber-stamps them.
Ferfal, this is what I was talking about, unelected bureaucrats in Brussels writing the laws. That’s not elected government. That’s actually a socialist govt model, rule directly by unelected elites.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:53 PM
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Ferfal, this is what I was talking about, unelected bureaucrats in Brussels writing the laws. Thatís not elected government. Thatís actually a socialist govt model, rule directly by unelected elites.

That's a common anti-EU myth but its not actually true. Not everyone working in the government is elected, thats true for the great mayority of bureaucrats in ANY country, not just the EU. But the European Commission doesnít make laws, he's just repeating one of the many brexiteer/anti-EU lies. As for the members of European parlaiment, those are elected.

The way the EU works is rather complex so I dont blame anyone for not understanding how it works, if you wnat ot understand it better, check the following link
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2...d-bureaucrats/
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:08 PM
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The United States is trying very hard not to get drug into this, but we will not allow any Nato Country to attack any other Nato country.
Other than the bloviating in this thread nobody is actually threatening war.
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We will not allow any trade disruptions between the EU and GB to harm the British people either. If the EU wants to keep their food and energy exports, the US has plenty of excess grain, livestock, and LNG to offer.
America would kerb stomp the United Kingdom and loot it if we had anything worth taking so slacken off on the feel goods. And the US offering the U.K. surplus food exports is like a homeless dude offering you a bite of the half eaten sandwich he has just liberated from the trash can.

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Its up to Great Britian to figgure out how to execute the Brexit decision. I'm willing to bet the English end up in 10 yrs, better than mainland Europe. It looks like Europe is headed for a deflational death spiral. Thats another thing the US is trying not to get drug into.
I am willing to bet that the English end up with a greater wealth gap and a significantly reduced GDP compared to Germany and France. I don’t know about the Scots though I heard they were pretty smart.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:56 PM
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I feel England should Brexit at any cost. Mistakes are costly to fix.

If they fail to Brexit, I see Sharia taking further hold until England is gone.

I don't know enough about Brit politics to predict. But from past performance, Brexit chances look slim.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:09 PM
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If they fail to Brexit, I see Sharia taking further hold until England is gone.
Why do you believe that? How is it that leaving the EU will prevent "Sharia taking further hold until England is gone" ?
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