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Old 09-07-2019, 02:27 PM
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Default Sig wins next gen weapon contract.



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Looks like Sig is going to be making a lot guns & silencers for the military.
`

SIG SAUER Selected by U.S. Army for Next Generation Weapons with New Ammunition Technology, Lightweight Machine Gun, Rifle, and Suppressors.
`

"NEWINGTON, N.H., (September 3, 2019) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the official award of a contract by the U.S. Army in the down-select process for the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW). The award encompasses the complete SIG SAUER system consisting of 6.8mm hybrid ammunition, a lightweight machine gun, rifle, and included suppressors. SIG SAUER will provide single source manufacturing for ammunition, weapons, and suppressors allowing for less risk and increased capability for the U.S. Army.

“The U.S. Army is leading the world in the first significant upgrade to small arms in decades to meet the growing demands of soldiers on the battlefield. We are honored to have been selected for the Next Generation Squad Weapons program bringing increased lethality to the warfighter over the legacy weapons,” began Ron Cohen, President & CEO, SIG SAUER, Inc. “At the core of our submission is our newly developed, high-pressure, 6.8mm hybrid ammunition that is utilized in both weapons, and is a significant leap forward in ammunition innovation, design, and manufacturing.”

The SIG SAUER 6.8mm hybrid ammunition is designed for increased penetration at greater distances. Cohen continued, “using patent-pending technology the SIG SAUER Ammunition division has engineered a completely new cartridge resulting in a more compact round, with increased velocity and accuracy, while delivering...
"

.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:51 PM
AZ_HighCountry AZ_HighCountry is offline
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So are three other vendors. These are evaluation weapons. Each vendor to deliver a set number of rifles and MGs along with approx. 854K of ammo.

It will be quite awhile before Big Army makes a final selection so don't be surprised if they get distracted by some other bright shiny object beforehand.
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:01 PM
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So are three other vendors. These are evaluation weapons. Each vendor to deliver a set number of rifles and MGs along with approx. 854K of ammo.

It will be quite awhile before Big Army makes a final selection so don't be surprised if they get distracted by some other bright shiny object beforehand.
`

It seems like every 6 months to a year someone is getting a contract to build the next gen weapons, but then it's cancelled a few months later. Look how long it took for the new pistol to come to fruition. The military has been looking for a replacement for the M-16 for 40+ years now, but the AR platform is still the one that, just like the energizer bunny, is "still going". Be interesting to see when/if they get a new toy, what will become of the AR platform within the military & the civilian population as well.

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Old 09-07-2019, 03:37 PM
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Believe it when you see it, they keep saying they are going to upgrade to next generation weapons and technology, then it doesn't happen. Eventually it will and when it does I'll take notice.


They will probably make a civilian version, which people will buy and compare to the AR which will trigger the next versus debate, it will be epic. I suppose it's something to look forward to...LOL
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuckleberry View Post
`

It seems like every 6 months to a year someone is getting a contract to build the next gen weapons, but then it's cancelled a few months later.
.
Don't use all your budget and you lose it. Weapons tests keep that DoD budget with the DoD.
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Old 09-07-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuckleberry View Post
Looks like Sig is going to be making a lot guns & silencers for the military.
`

SIG SAUER Selected by U.S. Army for Next Generation Weapons with New Ammunition Technology, Lightweight Machine Gun, Rifle, and Suppressors.
`

"NEWINGTON, N.H., (September 3, 2019) – SIG SAUER, Inc. is proud to announce the official award of a contract by the U.S. Army in the down-select process for the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW). The award encompasses the complete SIG SAUER system consisting of 6.8mm hybrid ammunition, a lightweight machine gun, rifle, and included suppressors. SIG SAUER will provide single source manufacturing for ammunition, weapons, and suppressors allowing for less risk and increased capability for the U.S. Army.

“The U.S. Army is leading the world in the first significant upgrade to small arms in decades to meet the growing demands of soldiers on the battlefield. We are honored to have been selected for the Next Generation Squad Weapons program bringing increased lethality to the warfighter over the legacy weapons,” began Ron Cohen, President & CEO, SIG SAUER, Inc. “At the core of our submission is our newly developed, high-pressure, 6.8mm hybrid ammunition that is utilized in both weapons, and is a significant leap forward in ammunition innovation, design, and manufacturing.”

The SIG SAUER 6.8mm hybrid ammunition is designed for increased penetration at greater distances. Cohen continued, “using patent-pending technology the SIG SAUER Ammunition division has engineered a completely new cartridge resulting in a more compact round, with increased velocity and accuracy, while delivering...
"

.

Its long overdue.

I will believe it when the 2 current issued weapons in pic below are actually replaced in the Infantry

Note : It does not appear that 7.62 NATO will be replaced in its current role as yet...?

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Old 09-07-2019, 10:34 PM
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our newly developed, high-pressure, 6.8mm hybrid ammunition
LOL yeah okay. This will go nowhere.
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:38 AM
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6.8 = NATO changing ... LOL
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:34 AM
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I don't see NATO changing away from the .223/5.56 ammo any time soon at all. The British Army is almost ready to accept the .223/5.56 as a real bullet any day now even though they've been using it since the end of the Falklands War with Argentina. Change is slow to come in Europe. Real slow to come.

The 6.8 SPC round doesn't have the long range reach that the military forces need for a number of combat situations which will be the next hurdle to clear. The heavier bullet will be nice for the troops to use at closer ranges but out beyond 300+ meters there will be problems. The military forces need something akin to the 6.5 Grendel for accuracy and long range reach.

Then you're gonna have all those congressmen and other politicians reaching into the pot to get "their share" of the money coming from the weapons manufacturing. Yes, we're talking about the time honored tradition of kickbacks, bribes and gratuities given to political hacks to make your particular weapon the one that the military "needs."

This is going to be a bigger mess than when Ted Kennedy ruined the M-1 tank design to grab money for his state coffers and manufacturers.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:34 PM
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The 6.8 SPC round doesn't have the long range reach that the military forces need for a number of combat situations which will be the next hurdle to clear. The heavier bullet will be nice for the troops to use at closer ranges but out beyond 300+ meters there will be problems. The military forces need something akin to the 6.5 Grendel for accuracy and long range reach.
It's not 6.8 SPC. This new round should get 2527 fps with a 135 gr Sierra HPBT out of a 16" barrel if there hasn't been a major change to the design since the RFP in 2014
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:39 PM
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This is 100% based on wanting a system that can penetrate near-peer armor out to 800m. The ****show is going to be amazing with this. Three competitors, vying for an ammo/weapon contract. One has the inside track on ammo, one on a rifle, and the other with neither. No competitor's rifle works with the others' ammo.

If this ever plays out, it's gonna be years, and the end result will be less than impressive.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
I don't see NATO changing away from the .223/5.56 ammo any time soon at all. The British Army is almost ready to accept the .223/5.56 as a real bullet any day now even though they've been using it since the end of the Falklands War with Argentina. Change is slow to come in Europe. Real slow to come.

The 6.8 SPC round doesn't have the long range reach that the military forces need for a number of combat situations which will be the next hurdle to clear. The heavier bullet will be nice for the troops to use at closer ranges but out beyond 300+ meters there will be problems. The military forces need something akin to the 6.5 Grendel for accuracy and long range reach.

Then you're gonna have all those congressmen and other politicians reaching into the pot to get "their share" of the money coming from the weapons manufacturing. Yes, we're talking about the time honored tradition of kickbacks, bribes and gratuities given to political hacks to make your particular weapon the one that the military "needs."

This is going to be a bigger mess than when Ted Kennedy ruined the M-1 tank design to grab money for his state coffers and manufacturers.
from what i have been able to gather, it looks like this is not traditional brass cased ammo, and thus not 6.8 spc. its a .277" projectile encased in a polymer telescoping shell and essentially surrounded on all sides by propellant.

i suspect they are trying this out for weight reduction and not wanting to pick up range waste (brass is kind of expensive).

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Old 09-10-2019, 12:30 PM
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It's not 6.8 SPC. This new round should get 2527 fps with a 135 gr Sierra HPBT out of a 16" barrel if there hasn't been a major change to the design since the RFP in 2014
Sorry, typo. That's supposed to be 3527 fps and 125 gr Sierra HPBT, based on the scuttlebutt floating around. A .270 magnum, basically. I completely misremembered the specs.
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from what i have been able to gather, it looks like this is not traditional brass cased ammo, and thus not 6.8 spc. its a .277" projectile encased in a polymer telescoping shell and essentially surrounded on all sides by propellant.

i suspect they are trying this out for weight reduction and not wanting to pick up range waste (brass is kind of expensive).

That's the Textron submission. The Sig submission is a conventional layout case with a tempered steel case head attached to a brass case wall/shoulder/neck section using a steel clip inside of the case and swaging of the outside of the case. Here's the Sig design with the 6.5mm projectile that wasn't chosen.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:37 PM
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The sad thing is, Sig was handed the keys to this kingdom YEARS ago, and essentially told the designers to pound sand. Same thing FN did with several fixes for the SCAR (and interestingly, some of the same people were involved in design for both). The arrogance of some of the manufacturers is incredible.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:11 PM
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Sorry, typo. That's supposed to be 3527 fps and 125 gr Sierra HPBT, based on the scuttlebutt floating around. A .270 magnum, basically. I completely misremembered the specs.
Thanks for the correction. That would make a fine long range round.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:27 PM
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I think it's going to take a lot to get them to budge off the status quo. First of all the focus has shifted from the individual soldier to crew served and advanced weapon systems. Which makes the infantry rifle a lower priority. Doesn't mean it's not important but in the scheme of things less important. Which may also explain the on again off again approach to a new infantry rifle/cartridge.
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Old 09-11-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by masiaka View Post
Sorry, typo. That's supposed to be 3527 fps and 125 gr Sierra HPBT, based on the scuttlebutt floating around. A .270 magnum, basically. I completely misremembered the specs.

That's the Textron submission. The Sig submission is a conventional layout case with a tempered steel case head attached to a brass case wall/shoulder/neck section using a steel clip inside of the case and swaging of the outside of the case. Here's the Sig design with the 6.5mm projectile that wasn't chosen.
ah thanks, that makes sense, different vendors, different designs.

the pictured case looks kind of like a 260 remington to me
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:31 PM
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6.8 = NATO changing ... LOL
Like we give a crap what NATO thinks anymore....
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:50 PM
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ah thanks, that makes sense, different vendors, different designs.

the pictured case looks kind of like a 260 remington to me
AFAIK, it has less taper in the case walls and is in between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO/.260 in size. Maybe 2/3, closer to the .260 than 5.56
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:36 PM
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Like we give a crap what NATO thinks anymore....
Not that we point we care. The point is that NATO had commonality by design.
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