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Old 08-30-2019, 12:04 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
That your leftist version of "You didn't build that"?

Is it OK if I drive my car to the VFW today?

How about I have sex with my wife? Is that all right with you boss?

You misunderstand freedom boy...

Even those idiot anti-gunners who destroy rifles out of protest have the right to if it's their property. I hate seeing that, but it just makes mine more valuable, and some company still made a profit by selling it...
Oh you ABSOLUTELY had the freedom to act like a punk and destroy living history that someone else left to you in trust for the younger generation.

I'm not arguing that. (It's obvious)


But only an ******* would of.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Congratulations on destroying history and turning an $800 rifle into a $200 sporter OP.

Shoulda left it in original condition and just bought a different rifle. Commonly find hacked up sporter rifles and modern rifles for $300.
I have serious doubts this rifle came from Italy.
Iíve seen way too many pieces over the years that weíre purchased later but the family found in a closet and the story became it must have been brought back, itís possible but not probable imo.
And if it did it would be an extremely rare piece.
DWM stopped producing the 1908 in 1914 at the outbreak of WWI.
The only way I could imagine a 1908 ending up in Italy would be if a few remaining rifles still in the DWM inventory were somehow distributed to one of the Central Powers and then captured in Italy (an allied power)

With capture papers, I would expect the value to exceed $2000.
$2000 that could have been used for a donation to the local VFW or American Legion where a plaque would have immortalized the uncle in law for all time.

Without capture papers one could still tie a soldier to Italy very easily considering there was only one American battalion sent to Italy in WWI iirc.
Absent import marks with documentation of the uncle in laws service one would still expect to see a bump in value in a setting like Gunbroker.


Assuming the family history about this rifle is correct, a rare piece has been destroyed.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
I have serious doubts this rifle came from Italy.
Iíve seen way too many pieces over the years that weíre purchased later but the family found in a closet and the story became it must have been brought back, itís possible but not probable imo.
And if it did it would be an extremely rare piece.
DWM stopped producing the 1908 in 1914 at the outbreak of WWI.
The only way I could imagine a 1908 ending up in Italy would be if a few remaining rifles still in the DWM inventory were somehow distributed to one of the Central Powers and then captured in Italy (an allied power)

With capture papers, I would expect the value to exceed $2000.
$2000 that could have been used for a donation to the local VFW or American Legion where a plaque would have immortalized the uncle in law for all time.

Without capture papers one could still tie a soldier to Italy very easily considering there was only one American battalion sent to Italy in WWI iirc.
Absent import marks with documentation of the uncle in laws service one would still expect to see a bump in value in a setting like Gunbroker.


Assuming the family history about this rifle is correct, a rare piece has been destroyed.
Agreed, and my estimate of $800 was probably on the low-end.

Absolutely STUPID to destroy it. Far more value in having it hang on a wall than spend money and effort chopping it up to make it "useful." Racks upon racks of "useful" modern and sporterized rifles in pawn shops, gun forums, and gun shops in every town in America to pick from, and can be had for $200-300 every minute of the day.

Probably cost more than the price of a different rifle to chop this one up as well. Could have kept it in original condition AND added a new(er) rifle to the inventory which would have been a FAR more sensible option.

I have purchased two sporterized Mosins. Someone acquired them when they were cheap and chopped them up. One was done really well in a Boyd's stock, turned bolt handle, excellent iron sights, cut barrel perfectly crowned. They probably spent $500 on materials and labor. Ironically it would be worth more had it been left alone in cosmoline... I.E.

* Cosmoline unmolested MN ~$300 and growing yearly
* Bubba'd MN - original cost of ~$100, minus ~$500 for labor to bubba = ~$600. Upside down on the value, which grows bigger every year with every MN that's been destroyed.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:32 PM
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It's also telling that the 3 of us do NOT agree that often!!!

(Although I put a MAX value of$200 on butchered sporters, particularly if not in common cal's. I pick up a couple a year $100 or less.)
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:38 PM
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If my dad did that to a gun my relative brought back from world war 1, I would be absolutely disgusted. But then, my dad respected my mom's family enough not destroy their family heirloom.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:18 PM
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If my dad did that to a gun my relative brought back from world war 1, I would be absolutely disgusted. But then, my dad respected my mom's family enough not destroy their family heirloom.
Yep, the excuse that itís now useful would be like someone that lives in the snow belt tearing the body off their grandfathers 56 Corvette and putting it on a Jeep chassis to make it useful.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
Yep, the excuse that it’s now useful would be like someone that lives in the snow belt tearing the body off their grandfathers 56 Corvette and putting it on a Jeep chassis to make it useful.
Great analogy. Or tearing down historic 2 story buildings that aren't "useful" to make room for a 10 story business center and offices. Or cutting down redwood forests to pave it for parking lots and strip malls...

Sometimes the "usefulness" comes from long-range big-picture thinking and preserving history. Again, millions of $300 useful bolt guns out there.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Key phrase there.

Family. Not his.

If it was one he had Picked up at a yard sale for $5, I'd of disagreed with spending more money than the gun was now worth to make it worth less, but I'd not of had the same prespective.

But (again) it's NOT HIS. It's held in trust BY HIM for his family.
And he violated that trust.
in his custody. no instructions about 'don't alter this piece it might be worth something someday'.
for pete's sake it's not a Van Gogh or anything.
a lot of people might well have junked it or yard-saled it for fifty bucks.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:43 PM
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Well...it does make those old rifles that are still intact little more valuable...as there is now one fewer of them. Just trying to find a bright spot in all this.


I know..It's not my call and yet I don't get it. If you are gong to chop up a rifle up to make a scout rifle there are tons of inexpensive/current production rifles on the used market that would fit the bill. Why use a rifle that has historical significance?
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailorsam View Post
in his custody. no instructions about 'don't alter this piece it might be worth something someday'.
for pete's sake it's not a Van Gogh or anything.
a lot of people might well have junked it or yard-saled it for fifty bucks.
We get that you don't get it.

No need to keep repeating that fact.
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Old 08-30-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailorsam View Post
in his custody. no instructions about 'don't alter this piece it might be worth something someday'.
for pete's sake it's not a Van Gogh or anything.
a lot of people might well have junked it or yard-saled it for fifty bucks.
Setting aside the weird way in which society places "value" on things, such as art, in a pure utilatarian/historical sense the unmolested rifle is 10x more valuable than any Van Gogh painting. And prints of his work are available for a few dollars.

VG was an interesting person and good painter. That's about it. A dime-a-dozen so to speak. The canvas and ink play as much of a interesting role as what was painted on them, to be blunt.

Conversely, a WWI-WWII era unmolested rifle is rare and rich in world history. It's probably been on countless battlefields, held by many fearful yet brave men who may have died or taken lives with it. The wood and metal is truthfully irreplaceable. The wood having probably deeply imbedded sweat, blood, and DNA from perhaps dozens of men, worn in very unique areas from handling, carrying, dropping, using as a weapon, etc. Not to mention the homeland natives who all took part in the manufacturing process. The steel was ore, gathered and smelted and heat treated and cut and drilled to standards. The wood was procured from some ancient tree, cut and stained to standard. Assembled and inspected by people who have long passed, all in eager anticipating of their national defense efforts.

It's more than just a rifle, it's among the most rich items in global conflict history, frankly.
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:37 PM
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The OP has not provided much info to work on, so its hard to establish the true value of his Mauser before modification.
But I know enough to tell most of you to pipe down!

Its a Brazilian gun. When could it possibly been used in a real war, or even a battle?
Brazilian guns do not carry historical value, just collectors value based on the rarity.

Which contract?
To my knowlege Brazil purchased small ring 93 Mausers and 98 Mausers, built by both Loewe and DWM, all chambered in 7x57.

The bulks of these were the early small ring 93 models that were sold mail order for about $150.
Small ring 93 Mauser are terrific canidates for gunsmithing because there are millions of them.
The latter 98 Mausers might be worth real money, especially if they were small ring 98 Mausers.

I am often asked to build custom hunting rifles on large ring 98 Mauser actions. Springfields and Engfields are also popular.
No one has ever asked for a custom Mosin rifle.

When built with a premium barrel and nice wood, a custom Mauser is a highly prized rifle, and worth thousands.
The value can easily double again if the smith can pull off engraving, or fine line checkering.
Of couse if poorly done by bubba, a rare and valuble rifle can be turned into scrap.
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Old 08-30-2019, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailorsam View Post
in his custody. no instructions about 'don't alter this piece it might be worth something someday'.
for pete's sake it's not a Van Gogh or anything.
a lot of people might well have junked it or yard-saled it for fifty bucks.
I recently sold a matching 1908 for $800 along with a matching 1909 to the same collector for $600.

Anyone who would junk, yard sale or chop up any milsurp rifle in this day and age with a value of more than $100 deserves to be called out on it.

I hope to heck the OP's son never really gets an interest into guns, knowing he could have had an unmolested all matching piece of history instead of a cut up bubba job will make the poor kid sick I'd bet.
By the time the kid gets to the age of collecting a matching 1908 may well be a $1500 purchase, but I suppose he'll have a fine hack job as a place holder until he can afford the real deal.


If the OP didn't want to hear what people really think about his "upgrade" he wouldn't have made his thread title click bait.

I'd be wondering about the headspace of the OP's rifle.

Also, he could have not chopped the barrel, added an S&K mount and stored away the original parts in case some other family member wanted to put it back to its former glory.
But nope, out with the hacksaw and cordless drill...
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hick Industries View Post
The OP has not provided much info to work on, so its hard to establish the true value of his Mauser before modification.
But I know enough to tell most of you to pipe down!

Its a Brazilian gun. When could it possibly been used in a real war, or even a battle?
Brazilian guns do not carry historical value, just collectors value based on the rarity.

Which contract?
To my knowlege Brazil purchased small ring 93 Mausers and 98 Mausers, built by both Loewe and DWM, all chambered in 7x57.

The bulks of these were the early small ring 93 models that were sold mail order for about $150.
Small ring 93 Mauser are terrific canidates for gunsmithing because there are millions of them.
The latter 98 Mausers might be worth real money, especially if they were small ring 98 Mausers.

I am often asked to build custom hunting rifles on large ring 98 Mauser actions. Springfields and Engfields are also popular.
No one has ever asked for a custom Mosin rifle.

When built with a premium barrel and nice wood, a custom Mauser is a highly prized rifle, and worth thousands.
The value can easily double again if the smith can pull off engraving, or fine line checkering.
Of couse if poorly done by bubba, a rare and valuble rifle can be turned into scrap.
According to the OP...

"My father-in-law had an uncle who served in Italy during WWI. He came home with (of all things) a Brazilian Mauser in 7x57. It's been in my wife's family ever sense. Several years back (before "Unkie" passed) he gave the rifle to my FIL. "
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:50 PM
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According to the OP...

"My father-in-law had an uncle who served in Italy during WWI. He came home with (of all things) a Brazilian Mauser in 7x57. It's been in my wife's family ever sense. Several years back (before "Unkie" passed) he gave the rifle to my FIL. "
My point was Brazil did not actually fight in WW1.

They did declare war agaiinst Germany in response to their uboat activity, but their main military deployments were to France and Gilbraltar, and they arrived within days of the end of the war. Brazil and Itally were actually allies in WW1, so I can think of no reason a Brazilian soldier would be fighting in Itally.

Because of this, I do not put much credit in the story passed down from his family. Perhaps this happened in WW2, where Brazil fought in Itally on the side of the Allies?

Small ring Mausers were designed prior to 1898 and are not controled by the GCA '68. You can buy them without a FFL, through the mail, and very cheap.

They are also much less desireable as the bassis of a custom rifle, due to the magazine length, and the cartridge pressure limit. If the OPs rifle is a Brazilian small ring it is no loss.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:30 PM
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Agreed, and my estimate of $800 was probably on the low-end.

Absolutely STUPID to destroy it. Far more value in having it hang on a wall than spend money and effort chopping it up to make it "useful." Racks upon racks of "useful" modern and sporterized rifles in pawn shops, gun forums, and gun shops in every town in America to pick from, and can be had for $200-300 every minute of the day.

Probably cost more than the price of a different rifle to chop this one up as well. Could have kept it in original condition AND added a new(er) rifle to the inventory which would have been a FAR more sensible option.

I have purchased two sporterized Mosins. Someone acquired them when they were cheap and chopped them up. One was done really well in a Boyd's stock, turned bolt handle, excellent iron sights, cut barrel perfectly crowned. They probably spent $500 on materials and labor. Ironically it would be worth more had it been left alone in cosmoline... I.E.

* Cosmoline unmolested MN ~$300 and growing yearly
* Bubba'd MN - original cost of ~$100, minus ~$500 for labor to bubba = ~$600. Upside down on the value, which grows bigger every year with every MN that's been destroyed.
I can see you guys will never get it.

The value to a family member (NOT a collector) isn't in dollars. It's in taking the gun OFF the wall, and OUT INTO THE WOODS to be used. In so doing, the history of the previous generations of that family... the one who brought the rifle back home (NOT the rifle manufacturer, or the original military user) is remembered.

Yes, I could have bought a scout rifle, but then it wouldn't have been Unkie's rifle. It's a ****ing tribute to a WWII veteran you stupid ingrates... He was a founding member of the VFW that I'm now the Commander of... The rifle itself is nothing next to the American hero who brought it home.

I, we, this family, could give two ****s about the rifle, or person who Unkie got it from in Italy... Just that he survived the war, and came home to us. Hell, I only got to know him for the last 14 or 15 years of his life. NOW the rifle will have some meaning. Now it's not just something to look at on the wall, but to use in the woods, and in doing so Unkie will walk with whoever is carrying it. THAT is the value, not dollars.

This will never be sold, so don't worry yourself that it's only worth a couple hundred now.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:34 PM
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My point was Brazil did not actually fight in WW1.

They did declare war agaiinst Germany in response to their uboat activity, but their main military deployments were to France and Gilbraltar, and they arrived within days of the end of the war. Brazil and Itally were actually allies in WW1, so I can think of no reason a Brazilian soldier would be fighting in Itally.

Because of this, I do not put much credit in the story passed down from his family. Perhaps this happened in WW2, where Brazil fought in Itally on the side of the Allies?

Small ring Mausers were designed prior to 1898 and are not controled by the GCA '68. You can buy them without a FFL, through the mail, and very cheap.

They are also much less desireable as the bassis of a custom rifle, due to the magazine length, and the cartridge pressure limit. If the OPs rifle is a Brazilian small ring it is no loss.
That was a typo in my OP WWII, not WWI... Unkie fought in North Africa, then Sicily, and Italy.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:38 PM
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That was a typo in my OP WWII, not WWI...
Make a lot more sense. Brazil sent 600,000 soldiers to fight for the allies in Italy during WW2.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:46 PM
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Make a lot more sense. Brazil sent 600,000 soldiers to fight for the allies in Italy during WW2.
Didn't know that. I always wondered how the hell he got his hands on a South American rifle... He had one of those German bikes with the tank treads, but they wouldn't let him ship it home... lol. My Father-in-law has photos of him with it though... and one of him taking a wiz off a cliff...
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:00 PM
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I recently sold a matching 1908 for $800 along with a matching 1909 to the same collector for $600.

Anyone who would junk, yard sale or chop up any milsurp rifle in this day and age with a value of more than $100 deserves to be called out on it.

I hope to heck the OP's son never really gets an interest into guns, knowing he could have had an unmolested all matching piece of history instead of a cut up bubba job will make the poor kid sick I'd bet.
By the time the kid gets to the age of collecting a matching 1908 may well be a $1500 purchase, but I suppose he'll have a fine hack job as a place holder until he can afford the real deal.


If the OP didn't want to hear what people really think about his "upgrade" he wouldn't have made his thread title click bait.

I'd be wondering about the headspace of the OP's rifle.

Also, he could have not chopped the barrel, added an S&K mount and stored away the original parts in case some other family member wanted to put it back to its former glory.
But nope, out with the hacksaw and cordless drill...
No bet


No bet:

Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
.

This will never be sold, so don't worry yourself that it's only worth a couple hundred now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddyusmaximus View Post
. There is a Jap Arisaka too, but nobody want that...It may get sold. .
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