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Old 08-29-2019, 03:46 PM
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Relying on a vehicle is a very questionable idea if you live in a built up area.

If you want to get in with a prepper group you'll want to get in BEFORE anything happens. Develop a skills. Having another mouth to feed is VERY taxing. Having gear isn't a ticket to a group. Everyone and their mom has a gun in America.

Having a rare skill will make it easier to see you as valuable.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:47 PM
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What makes a scar the best? You never shot one or held one.
Thats a very good point. I have not, so it may not be the best *for me* and is exactly why Im trying to stick with a smaller caliber if feesable. I think .308 is just a bit large and cumbersome as a SHTF/WROL solution. Who really NEEDS that kind of Semi-Auto power within civillians, honestly?

But I believe it is the best overall .308 battle rifle for its combination of lightweightness, compactness and yet ability to hit reliably at 750 yards and with an obviously super hard-hitting 150+ grain bullet.

The .308 caliber requires a longer barrel than 7.62x39 to retain proper ballistics, and the SCAR 17S takes it to the absolute limit in terms of providing those proper ballistics while using the shortest barrel possible in the lightest possible package, all wrapped up in the rock-solid, military-proven reliability that is the FN SCAR platform, as reliable and durable as any AK-47.

There are other great options for sure, yea, but nothing really brings every single characteristic of a TRULY GREAT firearm in every possible way all into one realatively lightweight package like the SCAR 17S does. Or at least not in the .308 caliber. That pretty much explains the rediculous $3000 price tag.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:49 PM
recklessdriver recklessdriver is offline
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You ever shot even 100 meters targets. ?
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:49 PM
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No way you are going to be able to carry that on foot any real distance. You need something to help you haul all that stuff. Game cart or some sort of cart that collapses for storage would be a good idea.
Thats a great idea, thanks!
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:54 PM
wallacengineering wallacengineering is offline
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Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
Relying on a vehicle is a very questionable idea if you live in a built up area.

If you want to get in with a prepper group you'll want to get in BEFORE anything happens. Develop a skills. Having another mouth to feed is VERY taxing. Having gear isn't a ticket to a group. Everyone and their mom has a gun in America.

Having a rare skill will make it easier to see you as valuable.
Yea, I do understand the likelihood of having to ditch the car and Im working on building systems for that very real possibility. But I want to use every resource I can for as long as I can. I really try not to waste potential like that.

You are absolutely right about feeding others, on the other hand they can help carry more food, reducing that tax. It certainly needs to be given some thought...

Joining a group before any apocalypse is absolutely the best idea, thanks for that. I will get right on that ASAP.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:57 PM
biathlon biathlon is offline
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Sorta depends on where you live. I'm in rural Wyoming and the distances here are significant so I'm pretty much a 308/300 win mag guy. Glass at least to 8 X.
I also gotta be able to drop any 4 legged critter here too.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:58 PM
wallacengineering wallacengineering is offline
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You ever shot even 100 meters targets?
Yea, not very many times though. I certainly need more training. Ive just had a few ex-military friends as well as family who are firearms enthusiasts and so I have shot a few 5.56 rifles as well as one or two 7.62x39mm rifles. Even once shot a freaking musket, that was fun lol.

But yea, I have shot up to 200 yards with 5.56 rifles. Just range limitation. I do plan on getting some surplus military or cheap ammo for my rifle to practice with. At least 1000 rounds, possibly 2000 or 3000.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:10 PM
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Just cuz the gun can reliably hit 750 yards doesn't mean you can.

I've hit 800 a few times. 1100 once. I was also attached to some snipers and they were turning the turrets and coaching me on a controlled range with tools and known distances.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by biathlon View Post
Sorta depends on where you live. I'm in rural Wyoming and the distances here are significant so I'm pretty much a 308/300 win mag guy. Glass at least to 8 X.
I also gotta be able to drop any 4 legged critter here too.
That makes total sense. My truck driving rounte is from Utah to Indiana weekly via I-80, so I pass through Wyoming 4 times a week. Man Wyoming is vast and empty, and yea you are so much more likely to have to engage at longer distances out there in SHTF/WROL, thats absolutely confirmed 100%
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
Just cuz the gun can reliably hit 750 yards doesn't mean you can.
With enough practice I think most could hit 600 yards, some can hit 750, and one or two have shown that its capable of 1000 yards. Pretty extreme for an 8 LBs naked package with a 16.25" barrel. Can't say enough good things about that SCAR, what an incredible piece of firearm masterpiece!
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:21 PM
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I've hit 800 a few times. 1100 once. I was also attached to some snipers and they were turning the turrets and coaching me on a controlled range with tools and known distances.
Dang, 1100 is impressive, was that on the SCAR 17S? You said you were attached to snipers, some sort of military training or operation?
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:26 PM
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As a side note, can't wait to try out my first .308 battle rifle at the range myself! Never shot one, only fired the .308 in hunting bolt-action rifles but my local indoor range has the H&K M762A1 for rent. Definitely gonna be trying that for giggles!
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:42 PM
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Dang, 1100 is impressive, was that on the SCAR 17S? You said you were attached to snipers, some sort of military training or operation?

M110 SASS.

And with the wind the 1100 shot was more luck than anything. Probably not a shot you'd take with a 308 anywhere but wasting ammo you don't want to turn in on the range. Took me 7 or 8 tries to get a hit.

And no special training. I was a medic. I got lucky enough to get put with the snipers for a while. They let me shoot sometimes when they were done doing big kid practice.
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Old 08-29-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
M110 SASS.

And with the wind the 1100 shot was more luck than anything. Probably not a shot you'd take with a 308 anywhere but wasting ammo you don't want to turn in on the range. Took me 7 or 8 tries to get a hit.

And no special training. I was a medic. I got lucky enough to get put with the snipers for a while. They let me shoot sometimes when they were done doing big kid practice.
Nice, I hope they gave you the 20" version to make it fair lol. Very serious and capable rifle, havent been able to find a civilian version for sale amongst the research.

That M110K5 14.5" with dedicated Supressor would be an insane SHTF/WROL .308 option but Im pretty sure its military only, bummer.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:04 PM
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Ok, Im not saying that a "Walking Dead" Fantasy will happen. I literally said "A Zombie Virus is preposterous" and obviously it is preposterous.

I was using them as an example that alot.of people watch that seems to portray somewhat realistic scavenging tactics. Yes, there obviously won't be freaking zombies. This isn't Hollywood.

Yes, obviously scavenging is a bad idea and is best avoided. However, eventually you WILL run out of food, water, medical supplies, and ammunition. The length of time obviously depends on how much you have and how efficient your community can be. But eventually, you will be FORCED to scavenge in order to survive. I prefer to keep this fact in the back of my head and be prepared for it.

What I find realistic in the popular zombie series is the way they send small groups, enough people just to cover eachothers backs, leaving the majority of people in the community. Clearing building by building, doing their best to stay quiet and keep from attracting attention, and only firing a shot if hostility is confirmed. They gather what they can, and return to the community. You can't say that its unrealistic considering its exactly what police do when clearing houses of suspects. The only difference is they aren't there to gather supplies.

I believe the SCAR 17S is the absolute best all-purpose .308 battle rifle available for purchase by civilians for a few reasons. Its combination of lightweightness, decent recoil and at least somewhat AR-10 like mid-size package means that while also being able to take down large game at 500+ meters, great for feeding the community, it is also just lightweight enough to use in a CQB situation in a pinch, although obviously not ideal in comparison to other caliber options when you consider the weight of ammunition and overall rifle once it is loaded up with a full magazine and optics/accessories for combat. Again, thats coming from a citizen standpoint, not military.

Again, military is a great way to access the over qualities of combat firearms and there is no denying that. However, again we are talking about civilians in survival mode given a SHTF situation, not an organized military force.

Im sure as hell not planning to engage a military unless they have invaded US soil and are killing innocent civilians like Adolf Hitler. Otherwise, survival and avoiding combat comes first.

I too disagree with alot of these YouTubers. So many of them are going for these extremely short pistols such as the 5.5" barrel Maxim Defense PDX. Talk about a horrible firearm. You might as well just have a standard 9mm handgun, its going to be just as effective due to massive burn and pressure release from too short of a barrel for a rifle caliber LOL!

After doing tons of research on calibers vs barrel length, the conclusion found by respectable YouTubers, other Forums and Military veterans is that the ideal barrel length for a 7.62x39mm round while retaining great ballistics, decent range, and decent accuracy while in the most compact and lightweight package possible is a 12.5" or 13.5" barrel.

Now because of the NFA classifications of firearms, the idea with the PWS MK111 is to have a barrel as long as possible on a complete rifle without entering the NFA illegal "Short-Barrel Rifle" area with its 11.85" barrel. Well, they did exactly that and the result is basically a 6lbs AK47 optimized for CQB but while still being very capable at medium ranges.
You are incorrect in regards to scavenging from the outset, and NOT ALL OF US WILL be forced into it because we prepare in the first place. ( Have no problems growing and raising our own food here, or issues with H20 at all for example). Ammo aint an issue either, so sharp sticks won be a problem to deal with...lol The real fact here is that scavenging is a result of lack of being prepared...plain and simple.

In addition, you nor I have no way of knowing who either might encounter, how organized they are, if the group found was the entire force or simply scouts for a larger force, etc.......

I dont watch tv all that much, but clearing rooms against unarmed " zombies" is a whole different aspect vs armed folks who can use team building, actual tactics, and think well outside the box when it comes to defense or offense. ( Pull a 1A in real life and you will have a better understanding of it.)
Fwiw. .....your tv heroes are successful at it because they are following a script. Lol.
....And I don think you are a troll per say. Just a tad bit misguided and especially if your using sci fi tv/ movies as legitimate research. ( The internet is also filled with quite a bit of misinformation as well.)

For example, comparing a pistol firing an intermediate rifle cartridge next to a 9mm is amusing as well as incorrect.
( can produce data opined first hand with a lab radar chrono using a 10.5in bbl AK vs a 357mag rifle too boot.)

Already covered the SCAR17 thing. Good weapon but not any better vs a few others that have been around much longer and cost less.

11B
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:04 PM
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Civilian AR10s can be built cheaper and better than the M110 imo.

What I would recommend to you is a solid AR carbine with iron sights. Any money you're tempted to spend in an optic spend on ammo. Live in that world and practice like hell.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:51 PM
wallacengineering wallacengineering is offline
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You are incorrect in regards to scavenging from the outset, and NOT ALL OF US WILL be forced into it because we prepare in the first place. ( Have no problems growing and raising our own food here, or issues with H20 at all for example). Ammo aint an issue either, so sharp sticks won be a problem to deal with...lol The real fact here is that scavenging is a result of lack of being prepared...plain and simple...
I am absolutely not using TV as legitimate research, of course that would be rediculous. However, I, unfortunately, used to live in the ghetto of Colorado Springs, Colorado and have actually beared witness to a swat raid within my apartment complex. Thankfully it wasn't in the same building. I lived in building D, they raided a unit in building B, which I could see directly across the courtyard.

They were up against a known drug dealing group, armed to the teeth with a full suite of Glocks and AR-15s (according to the news report afterwards). Needless to say, a few of the SWAT team were injured, and most of the group were killed. Scary stuff man, never seen anything like that before. There were a lot of shots fired in literally about 15 seconds that night.

The point is, in "The Walking Dead", they clear homes scavenging for supplies in a very similar fashion to the way the SWAT team operated, minus the flash-bang grenade. I believe the script is done this way to make the show more believeable, emphasizing on the possibility of an armed survivor taking refuge in a home. Weapons at ready, safeties off, rounds chambered, covering eachother, clearing rooms in a standard police fashion. If they come across a Zombie, they holster their firearm and use a bladed weapon to keep from wasting ammunition and attracting other Zombies with arms fire. The Firearms clear method is used in the case of an armed individual.

Im not insane man 😂, but you can relate to many things in this world if you understand and pay attention closely enough. Why is it that when people bring up examples that people can relate to, instead of seeing the point, they focus on exactly what is incorrect in your statement? A metaphor is a metaphor for a reason. Im the furthest thing from an irrational human being. I am in fact a computer nerd, I build and program them for fun. This may come as no surprise after that last sentence that I am also a very scientific and logical thinker. I analyze everything I am interested in down to its very core and finest details. Its simply in my nature as a very Aithiest/Scientologist logical thinker. To me, physical evidence speaks above all else.

But enough about me, the point is that you are missing the point. I might not be the typical lazy and nieve Millenial that you obviously think I am, but Video Games and TV can be fun too, although I don't really enjoy them as much anymore, simply too busy all the time.

Take a Metaphor for what it is: a METAPHOR. There's no need to dig into it any further than that.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:52 PM
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Civilian AR10s can be built cheaper and better than the M110 imo.

What I would recommend to you is a solid AR carbine with iron sights. Any money you're tempted to spend in an optic spend on ammo. Live in that world and practice like hell.
Noted 👍
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:26 PM
Don H Don H is offline
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M1 Garrand
Shoots 30-06 so hunting rounds are widely available.
Not on anyones ban list.
Lots of parts available.
If it quits working you can use it as a club or a boat anchor.
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:38 PM
wallacengineering wallacengineering is offline
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On another side note, you will be absolutely speechless when you find out just how advanced technology is these days, even in the forms of consumer products.

The CPU in your regular modern Desktop is far more advanced than you could ever possibly comprehend. To this day, the intricate details of CPU fabrication can be researched to a degree, but the higher level stuff remains Secret Service-Level top secret, and for a reason. These chips guide every single piece of modern technology we know today, from TVs to Cars to Military Jet Fighters.

The CPU (Central Processing Unit) is the main "Brain" of any electronic device capable of receiving an input from a user and processing information. If you can press a button, and then something happens, it has some form of CPU internally.

A modern consumer desktop CPU is roughly a 2" x 2" square, roughly 0.25" thick. See photo at this link: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14516...ming-september.

This little chip is the latest from AMD's line of Desktop CPUs designed for consumers, so this is nowhere near the most powerful CPU you can buy, just the most powerful designed for the average consumer to buy for standard computer use. Its called the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X.

Now, take a moment to take this next part in, because it will literally blow your mind. This single chip, contains within it, and more specifically within the 3 shiny squares on the chip: 9.89 BILLION wires, specifically known as "transistors". Thats right, you read it correctly, 9.89 BILLION electrical connections inside that tiny square.

Lets put it this way, modern CPUs are now so densely packed with transistors, that technology is borrowed from freaking particle accelerators in order to manufacture them, and each wire is 7 Nano-Meters in thickness (7nm). Thats roughly 30% of the thickness of an average human hair.

So, yea, imagine just what kind of crazy stuff the government has up its sleeves, something that even our finest military officers have no clue about. Its a scary thought...
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