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Old 09-09-2019, 04:23 AM
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My only issue with 6.5 is barrel length. I mean you can do 308 out of a 16 inch barrel and get good results. How short can you go with 6.5?
Good question.

Styer seems to think it is 19inches while Ruger is 18.7.


11B
That’s not too bad. But my favorite light weight bolt gun right now is “The Fix “ by Q. 6 pounds , adjustable comb , rail for optic and 16 inch in the 308 model. Threaded for their silencer if course. The rifle is a couple grand BUT it’s bad ass. .
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Old 09-22-2019, 05:16 PM
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Dunno if it's worth updating, but I gotta say I really like the scout rifle concept. Since I got my second GSR, I have adapted to the forward mounted scope and like it tremendously. I do wish it was a little bit higher magnification, like something in the 4x or 6x range (It's a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28 IER Scout scope) but the 2.5x magnification works well for the distances I've been shooting.

The rifle carries really well, I took it on a 15 mile backpacking trip up and down a mountain the other day and I didn't have a problem hauling it and 2 spare 5 round magazines around. Unfortunately, the area I was in was a heavily wooded area and I did encounter a few other hikers so shooting the rifle while hiking was neither feasible or safe for any potential fellow hiker in the area so I didn't do that.

When I take the rifle to the range, I only bring the Magpul 5rd AICS magazines as I don't like the 10rd Ruger or Accurate-Mag AICS magazines that came with the gun. The Accurate-Mag ones the baseplates will work themselves off over the course of fire and dump ammo on the ground. I'm not sure if that's a problem with the brand magazine itself or just the two that I have but they are bad. The Ruger magazine isn't bad, but they don't fit as snugly in to the magazine well as the Magpul magazines. Personal preference. I believe the Ruger Magazines have more room for a longer cartridge overall length though so that could be beneficial to those who do some finely tuned reloads.

It's not the most accurate rifle I've ever shot, though some of that I'm attributing to the shooter, optic, and choice of ammo and not solely the rifle. I have tons of surplus .308 and 7.62 NATO ammo so that is all I have currently shot in the rifle. At 300yrds I am consistently getting 7" groups using Malaysian surplus 147gr L2A2 ball ammo. Not the worst, but not the best either but a part of me believes that that's not entirely the guns fault though I doubt the 16" barrel helps at that distance.

I skipped the Ching Sling and decided to go with a standard sling, and have yet to put some sort of cheek riser on the rifle. It doesn't really need it as it stands but I think it would be useful as a little pouch on the rifle with some odds and ends in it.

I can't see myself winning a firefight with this gun, but it definitely makes a handy utilitarian rifle though an AR-10 in .308 seems infinitely more useful, I can bring the GSR anywhere (though I avoid certain states on principal) while the AR-10 is not 50 state legal.
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:24 AM
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It's not the most accurate rifle I've ever shot, though some of that I'm attributing to the shooter, optic, and choice of ammo and not solely the rifle. I have tons of surplus .308 and 7.62 NATO ammo so that is all I have currently shot in the rifle. At 300yrds I am consistently getting 7" groups using Malaysian surplus 147gr L2A2 ball ammo. Not the worst, but not the best either but a part of me believes that that's not entirely the guns fault though I doubt the 16" barrel helps at that distance.
The barrel length isn't your problem. 16" .308's can shoot very good groups, much further out than 300 yards. There are a ton of long range rifles in 16".
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:05 PM
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I use to subscribe to Guns & Ammo and the first thing I did when a new magazine arrived was skip to the back and read coopers corner. I suspect I wasn't the only one who did that. Anyway I credit Cooper for getting me involved with the 1911 and the Scout rifle...RIP
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Old 09-23-2019, 01:28 PM
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I use to subscribe to Guns & Ammo and the first thing I did when a new magazine arrived was skip to the back and read coopers corner. I suspect I wasn't the only one who did that. Anyway I credit Cooper for getting me involved with the 1911 and the Scout rifle...RIP
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Old 09-23-2019, 02:51 PM
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I use to subscribe to Guns & Ammo and the first thing I did when a new magazine arrived was skip to the back and read coopers corner. I suspect I wasn't the only one who did that. Anyway I credit Cooper for getting me involved with the 1911 and the Scout rifle...RIP
YouTube has some videos of him. He was really fundamental in the self defense and survival communities. A truly great man.
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Old 09-24-2019, 08:58 PM
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Thatís not too bad. But my favorite light weight bolt gun right now is ďThe Fix ď by Q. 6 pounds , adjustable comb , rail for optic and 16 inch in the 308 model. Threaded for their silencer if course. The rifle is a couple grand BUT itís bad ass. .
I like an 18in tube via 308 as it has shown to be the sweet spot over a vast majority of factory loads concerning terminal effects vs hogs at distances over 400 yards.( M14S / 18.5in tube. My other reason has to do with the Ruger GSR stainless steel left hand bolt action .

11B
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Old 10-09-2019, 11:05 PM
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Well I'm sure this thread has run it's course, but I just picked myself up a Saiga Sporter in .308 Winchester with a 20" (maybe 21"?) barrel that I've salvaged an AK scope mount off my WASR-10 and the scout scope off my Ruger for and the scope and rife feel like they were meant for each other.

I've yet to shoot the gun, but the eye relief of the forward mounted scope and the comb of the stock are perfect for each other.

Overall fit and finish are good with the rifle being in like new condition. Working on procuring some CSSPECS magazines for the rifle, and will do some T&E. Overall my hopes and expectations for the rifle to fill the Scout/Do it all/General purpose role it'll be shoehorned in to are pretty high.

The 3 main failing points for the rifle at this moment seem to be:

1.) Magazine availability is limited. CSSPECS, Pro Mag, and SGM Tactical are the only ones still producing magazines and of the 3 CSSPECS has the best reputation. I as thoroughly impressed with their VEPR 7.62x54r magazines so I'm expecting these to be good.

2.) The trigger is pretty crappy, and that's coming from someone who shoots HK-91/G3 clones regularly with unmodified/military triggers. The trigger feels like plastic, yet the pull feels hollow if that makes any sense. It's also pretty gritty. I haven't checked to see what the trigger weight is yet

3.) Since this is a non-standard AK, and the Saiga rifles are banned from importation spare parts will be hard to come by. I'm hoping basic things like firing pins and extractors from standard 7.62x39 AKs will work, but I'm going to assume that even the Bolt carrier, gas piston, ect aren't standard.

That being said I can work with the crappy trigger, and magazines are out there and not extremely expensive, but not cheap either. Parts availability might make this rifle not a truly effective prep and I'll have to research what parts are compatible and what aren't, but I'm not going to consider that a deal breaker. That also makes it harder to effectively get copies of this rifle, especially considering this was a "rarer" variant of the Saiga 308 to begin with.

Anyway, I still need to do some testing with various loads but I'm expecting it to prove a great tool, assuming the magazines prove to be as good as the companies other magazines.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:00 PM
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Well I'm sure this thread has run it's course, but I just picked myself up a Saiga Sporter in .308 Winchester with a 20" (maybe 21"?) barrel that I've salvaged an AK scope mount off my WASR-10 and the scout scope off my Ruger for and the scope and rife feel like they were meant for each other.

I've yet to shoot the gun, but the eye relief of the forward mounted scope and the comb of the stock are perfect for each other.

Overall fit and finish are good with the rifle being in like new condition. Working on procuring some CSSPECS magazines for the rifle, and will do some T&E. Overall my hopes and expectations for the rifle to fill the Scout/Do it all/General purpose role it'll be shoehorned in to are pretty high.

The 3 main failing points for the rifle at this moment seem to be:

1.) Magazine availability is limited. CSSPECS, Pro Mag, and SGM Tactical are the only ones still producing magazines and of the 3 CSSPECS has the best reputation. I as thoroughly impressed with their VEPR 7.62x54r magazines so I'm expecting these to be good.

2.) The trigger is pretty crappy, and that's coming from someone who shoots HK-91/G3 clones regularly with unmodified/military triggers. The trigger feels like plastic, yet the pull feels hollow if that makes any sense. It's also pretty gritty. I haven't checked to see what the trigger weight is yet

3.) Since this is a non-standard AK, and the Saiga rifles are banned from importation spare parts will be hard to come by. I'm hoping basic things like firing pins and extractors from standard 7.62x39 AKs will work, but I'm going to assume that even the Bolt carrier, gas piston, ect aren't standard.

That being said I can work with the crappy trigger, and magazines are out there and not extremely expensive, but not cheap either. Parts availability might make this rifle not a truly effective prep and I'll have to research what parts are compatible and what aren't, but I'm not going to consider that a deal breaker. That also makes it harder to effectively get copies of this rifle, especially considering this was a "rarer" variant of the Saiga 308 to begin with.

Anyway, I still need to do some testing with various loads but I'm expecting it to prove a great tool, assuming the magazines prove to be as good as the companies other magazines.
A few suggestions regarding Saiga 308 mags ......

1. Promag = Absolute junk. Can't describe it any other way.....Don't waste your time and money. ( Same with Uinta mags.)

2. SGM tactical: Springs weaken over time if your lucky. Some are weak right out of its brand new packaging. Feed lips are not re enforced, and go to crap after light use. Rounds start falling out of mags while in mag pouches when you stick and move.

3. CCS SPEC: Gen1 are junk. The newer version that resembles a 308 Galil mag are not much better and expensive for finding out that one may work while another does not. Imo, they are not worth thier hefty price tag.

Also note that none above will survive the " Ivan push up test", and none are long enough to allow loads such as M118 along with various hunting loads into the mags.

The only mag that is worth more than a fun gun range mag in the Saiga 308 are the low cap factory mags. However......I would rather have a low cap mag that is reliable vs an unreliable high cap mag.

Just my .02, but none of the Saiga 308 mags ( including factory) are in the same league concerning reliability, longevity, fit and finish, coal, etc.....as good quality G3, Galil, BM59, and M14 magazines.



11B
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:59 PM
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Edited to remove page stretching

11B
I appreciate your input, as usual.

I have heard that the Promag and SGM Tactical magazines aren't great and that the Gen 1 CSSPEC magazines aren't good either, but the current generation CSSPEC Saiga magazines all I have seen outside of SI (which based on my research the owner of WT and CSSPECs appear to have had a falling out in business and has trashed CSSPECs products since) is praise for them. I'm guessing you have experience with the Saiga .308 rifles, so when you say one CSSPEC magazine works and another doesn't, what do you mean? If you mean fitment, that's standard fare for AKs and RPKs in my experience. I've had to fit magazines to most of my AKs with the exception of my WASR, so I am anticipating having to fit them to the Saiga.

I also don't see the merit of a push up test in general, but especially not on what was designed as a hunting rifle, not as a service weapon. Since the Saiga .308 rifles were never used in military service and have no standard for magazine quality I wasn't under the illusion magazines would be their strong point. Either way I had no intention of stockpiling an insane amount of magazines for the rifle. 5-6 20rd magazines and the factory 8rder will do it for me, even if I have to put a little bit of work in to it. I have 3 currently on the way

I've also still got my other AKs, HK-91 clones, and an M1A as well so even if this doesn't meet my requirements after I've done some testing and eval on it, I still have other rifles.

The COL problem you mentioned I am aware of, and will have to see what I can do to get around it. CSSPECs says that the magazines will only fit ammo with a COL of 2.80" maximum in their magazines, no idea if that limitation holds true for the factory magazine, but I'll be able to test it.

Again I do appreciate your input.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:45 PM
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I appreciate your input, as usual.

I have heard that the Promag and SGM Tactical magazines aren't great and that the Gen 1 CSSPEC magazines aren't good either, but the current generation CSSPEC Saiga magazines all I have seen outside of SI (which based on my research the owner of WT and CSSPECs appear to have had a falling out in business and has trashed CSSPECs products since) is praise for them. I'm guessing you have experience with the Saiga .308 rifles, so when you say one CSSPEC magazine works and another doesn't, what do you mean? If you mean fitment, that's standard fare for AKs and RPKs in my experience. I've had to fit magazines to most of my AKs with the exception of my WASR, so I am anticipating having to fit them to the Saiga.

I also don't see the merit of a push up test in general, but especially not on what was designed as a hunting rifle, not as a service weapon. Since the Saiga .308 rifles were never used in military service and have no standard for magazine quality I wasn't under the illusion magazines would be their strong point. Either way I had no intention of stockpiling an insane amount of magazines for the rifle. 5-6 20rd magazines and the factory 8rder will do it for me, even if I have to put a little bit of work in to it. I have 3 currently on the way

I've also still got my other AKs, HK-91 clones, and an M1A as well so even if this doesn't meet my requirements after I've done some testing and eval on it, I still have other rifles.

The COL problem you mentioned I am aware of, and will have to see what I can do to get around it. CSSPECs says that the magazines will only fit ammo with a COL of 2.80" maximum in their magazines, no idea if that limitation holds true for the factory magazine, but I'll be able to test it.

Again I do appreciate your input.
To answer your questions above......

1. The issues with the CCS mags were all related to the springs , followers, and feed lips for the most part. In paticular. ....the springs were the bigger culprit.

2. I had 2 Saiga 308 rifles , and also had a 3rd around the same time frame from a buddy of mine to evaluate.

3. The factory mags all worked well in all 3 rifles. No need to fit mags to a specific rifle, as all 3 were built to the same tolerances.

4. No real need to get around 2.80. A critter won't know the difference if you shoot it with M118 or M852. ( And plenty of 150 /165 grain bullets better suited for hunting in 308 also worth the mention.)



Hope that helps.

11B
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:59 PM
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To answer your questions above......

1. The issues with the CCS mags were all related to the springs , followers, and feed lips for the most part. In paticular. ....the springs were the bigger culprit.

2. I had 2 Saiga 308 rifles , and also had a 3rd around the same time frame from a buddy of mine to evaluate.

3. The factory mags all worked well in all 3 rifles. No need to fit mags to a specific rifle, as all 3 were built to the same tolerances.



Hope that helps.

11B

That does. I plan on marking each magazine and recording round counts and if there are any, malfunctions on an individual magazine basis using the factory magazine as the control magazine.

I still despite your issues with the magazines, have high hopes for them as I've had great experiences with other CSSPECs magazines for different rifles and after researching others opinions on the Saiga .308s they sing a different tale than yours.

From what I can tell they haven't done nearly as much field testing as you do on your guns in general (like your M14s) though so their glowing reviews could be based on limited use in a tame environment like an indoor shooting range or from a bench.
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Old 10-13-2019, 05:52 PM
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Well got the 3 CSSPECs magazines in yesterday. My first impression of them is great, all 3 locked in without any modification, the finish reminds me of the Gen 3 Glock frying pan finish which is cool, and they're fairly light weight, much lighter than my surplus AK magazines.

Gonna go shooting tomorrow, will update if anything worthwhile comes about.

Pic of the Saiga in its current setup next to my Norinco Hunter. I really like the furniture so I don't think I will be converting the rifle any time soon.

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Old 10-14-2019, 09:49 AM
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I had the Vortex 2-7 scout scope on my Brazilian Mauser. I didn't care for how much the eye relief changed when you cranked it up to 7 power, so I swapped it out for a Hi-Lux. (also a 2-7) Guess what? Same thing. I'm just gonna leave it on 3 power and call her done at this point. I know you don't really need 7 power on a scout rifle anyhow. It would just be nice...

Anyone else notice this with variable power scout scopes?

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Old 10-15-2019, 06:57 AM
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Try a pistol scope for variable power
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