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Old 08-28-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
See Star fort.
Again, Fort Jefferson as an example.
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Old 08-28-2019, 08:17 PM
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Round is much less than optimal for a defensible structure as it is not possible to mass fires against an attacker. Enfilading fires are essential to a successful defense and why the keep was abandoned as the sole structure a thousand years ago. Our Eurp ancestors discovered they needed outer walls, barbettes, bastions, etc etc etc to keep undesirables and muslems out. See Star fort.
Indeed. There is a reason they came up with this stuff

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Old 08-30-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
I have often thought that in any kind of urban setting the best stuff for your BOB or GHB is not fixed knives, hatchets, tarps, fire starters but rather bolt cutters, hack saws, and lockpicks.
That kind of makes sense. BO / GH is an E&E situation. Why not carry dream E&E kit items, since it's an E&E where you get to equip yourself in advance from Walmart--- instead of starting out with whatever you can have in your POW cell, or get out of your wrecked aircraft.

I was a little skeptical at first. But if I'm walking down zombie highway, and there's a big group of zombies I want to get away from, and a locked gate or a locked door between me and where I need to go to get away from them--

---then I guess getting that door or gate opened is the answer.

It's something that could happen anywhere, and yet 100% of the gear usually included in bags doesn't help with it.
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Old 10-18-2019, 10:55 PM
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In the case of society collapse or the purge I have decided my home is not such a great refuge. So when I drive around daydreaming of flesh eating zombies wanting me for their tender vittles I look at locations that might be easy to defend. I also think big with me as the head honcho of a complex of like minded defenders.

For the delusion of grandeur location there is a local high school built on a small mountain, difficult grade to climb and one winding road in. Plenty of fences.

Local prison would be good too if the residents cleared out.

Smaller scale is look for places hard to break into. CVS on the corner is all brick, windows only on one side placed very high, flat roof with a prominent waist high wall, plenty of open space around it. only weak spot is the glass door plus it is a damn drug store, numero uno place to raid SHTF. So probably not my best idea.

Maybe I should be looking for land and build my own perimeter defenses? Haul in trailers and RVs for shelter. What would be ideal? I would think in the middle of a big ass field a thousand yards from any point of attack. Hijack a bulldozer and build a moat and pile the dirt up high on one side? Always wanted me a drawbridge. Where would I get lots of barb wire? Such a site would be hard to find in urban environment.

Have seen debates like this and some would rather be hidden in the woods. Problem with that is too easy to sneak up on.

Get the idea? Just for fun how would you structure your mad max world?
I guess if you could block the doors very securely, and the windows were up high, a retail store might work. I'm thinking of those Korean shop keepers during the King riots with some firepower on the roof. You would have some supplies, maybe a lot. I also remember the barricades of shopping carts that looked OK.*But remember the Alamo- it was a mission compound, not a fort. IIRC correctly that's why the Mexican troops could put ladders up and got over the walls. The defenders couldn't easily engage them.Then again, you might not face an army.
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Old 10-19-2019, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnLaw View Post
it was a mission compound, not a fort.
Missions in Texas were part forts. Missions were built to withstand large Apache and Comanche sieges. Obviously a couple tribes of indians isn't a large army task force, but fort building took ages back in the day. Any map of the Alamo layout shows the old barracks that were there already. Barracks means troop quarters.

The Mexicans built the missions as multi-use structures. Church, monastery, indian fort, and trading post.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:28 AM
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There are those ready made bunkers the government has so they can still collect taxes, fire off nukes and molest interns during the Apocalypse.

I would think a nuke power plant would be pretty well fortified for defense. Security cams, razor wire perimeter, probably some other stuff we don't know about. And you should be well fixed for water and power for decades. (they probably have any sort of water you want. Hard, soft, heavy, wet, salty, distilled, R/O.

What about water towers? Plenty of water! and it's a tower, what for looking around and shooting at food or invading throngs of zombies. Also, you are up high, so any antenna will work better for HAM, local radio, or cell phones. And it is bullet proof on 1 side. Might even be a genny and fuel there if they have water pumps.

What about Epstein's island? He's not using it anymore.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:48 PM
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If one has to "bug out at home" making your home look like it has already been looted is a very good option. A small secret room behind "empty shelves" in your "root cellar" would not be very hard to put in place without the local government knowing. And, I have never heard of a building permit for a root cellar.

Additionally one sniper can hold off a large force because most people do not want to die for their friends. By being able to start taking out beyond 600 yards will limit the number one will have to take on closer to home.

The two problems I see as a real possibility are a EMP and the government coming to take all your guns. How many people have their home completely surrounded by Copper mesh? So your electronics will be worthless if one hits from the Sun or an unfriendly country nuke. If the government is coming for my guns, well I will die defending mine. But I wonder just how many police officers will obey such an order or will continue to enforce it when people like me and many of my friends fight back and some of the officers die? As St. Augustin said, "An unjust law is no law at all and does not need to be obeyed". However, if even a small, relative, number of gun owners nation wide stand up and say "we will not obey" will make the politicians take notice and back down. One good reason to fight against the so called "Code Red" laws. And a good reason to hide some of your guns and ammo. And the older your guns are the less likely the government will know you have them.

Now, if the government is willing to pay me one million dollars per stripped AR-15 lower and fifty thousand dollars for ever mag that can hold more than 10 rounds I might turn in the ones the government knows about, especially lowers, then I would have the money to build my secure home come what may.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Profreed View Post
And, I have never heard of a building permit for a root cellar.
Did you take a census of municipalities on the matter? Below water table buildings require a lot of special construction rules.

Most of the Gulf Coast and lower Atlantic seaboard has a water table within a couple feet of ground level. 50 miles inland from Virginia to Brownsville holds about a third of the US population.

Many municipalities require a permit for anything that reduces the ability of the land to naturally drain. Maximum square footage of construction as a % of property square footage happens all the time. Add a single overhead electric light and that's more permits. Anything that could flood in a rain runs into child protection regs for pools.

The ability of towns and cities to regulate construction holds no bounds.


Making your house look looted all the time has real issues for all the time there isn't a disaster. Any hint of shabby or shoddy home condition in my suburban neighborhood and the HOA will just send an expensive contractor out to fix it and then bill you punitively for it. Just try to let you grass grow too high and see what happens. Secret rooms? What commercial home builder puts enough dead space in the main floor plan to build a room? And it's not much of a secret if a contractor requires a permit and a has a change added to the county blueprints on file. Do it in secret yourself? Better plan to never move because it will be found at the time of house sale inspection.

People making disaster plans had better remember you still have an everyday life to live.
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Missions in Texas were part forts. Missions were built to withstand large Apache and Comanche sieges. Obviously a couple tribes of indians isn't a large army task force, but fort building took ages back in the day. Any map of the Alamo layout shows the old barracks that were there already. Barracks means troop quarters.

The Mexicans built the missions as multi-use structures. Church, monastery, indian fort, and trading post.
The SPANISH built the missions as multi-use structures. There was no Mexico at that time.
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:05 PM
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The SPANISH built the missions as multi-use structures. There was no Mexico at that time.
That is true. I was focused on the usage aspect.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Did you take a census of municipalities on the matter? Below water table buildings require a lot of special construction rules.

Most of the Gulf Coast and lower Atlantic seaboard has a water table within a couple feet of ground level. 50 miles inland from Virginia to Brownsville holds about a third of the US population.

Many municipalities require a permit for anything that reduces the ability of the land to naturally drain. Maximum square footage of construction as a % of property square footage happens all the time. Add a single overhead electric light and that's more permits. Anything that could flood in a rain runs into child protection regs for pools.

The ability of towns and cities to regulate construction holds no bounds.


Making your house look looted all the time has real issues for all the time there isn't a disaster. Any hint of shabby or shoddy home condition in my suburban neighborhood and the HOA will just send an expensive contractor out to fix it and then bill you punitively for it. Just try to let you grass grow too high and see what happens. Secret rooms? What commercial home builder puts enough dead space in the main floor plan to build a room? And it's not much of a secret if a contractor requires a permit and a has a change added to the county blueprints on file. Do it in secret yourself? Better plan to never move because it will be found at the time of house sale inspection.

People making disaster plans had better remember you still have an everyday life to live.
There was a man in Oregon who dug a whole series of tunnels and rooms under his house and the government knew nothing about it. He even had food supplies for up to 100 years with wheat packed in barrels in Nitrogen. So, it can be done. It just means that you have to have a good imagination.
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Old 10-21-2019, 02:59 AM
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There was a man in Oregon who dug a whole series of tunnels and rooms under his house and the government knew nothing about it. He even had food supplies for up to 100 years with wheat packed in barrels in Nitrogen. So, it can be done. It just means that you have to have a good imagination.
Well, if he's nitrogen packing then he's obviously clueless about food storage. That wheat will be trash within a decade.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. For most people their home is the most valuable thing they own. So why would you risk that just to skirt a law. If you bought a home in a specific place with building codes then you had already agreed to the municipality building code. Your ignorance of it doesn't excuse you. It only takes an inspector driving by, a licensed tradesman seeing your amateur handiwork, a friend or family member with a grudge, or a real estate agent to screw you out of your most valuable possession. If you don't like the building code then why the hell are you living there?

85% of the US lives in an urban area. That's where the jobs are. It's also where the building codes are. The ones you agreed to when you took possession of your home.

If your imagination is telling you to violate building codes then consider listening to your wife instead.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:05 AM
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There's a guy out in my neck of the desert that took an old decommissioned Atlas F nuclear bunker and silo and turned it into his house. Redid the on-site control center, which I believe all have some kind of funky suspension system to help protect against nearby detonations. However, he left the silo as-is, I think, because the silo doors got stuck with one open. Blast doors on that place are interesting. Another nearby silo in the same missile wing was turned into an underground dive site. I also know that the missile wings typically had a command center (at least the Titan missiles did) that were pretty hardened structures.

I'm sure if you could track down the land owners, these site may be for sale. Now, converting them to a livable structure would be a long process, but it can be done, clearly. Most Atlas F silos around here are well within reach of some city or town too, since they were all part of a missile wing stationed around an Air Force base at one time.
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Old 10-21-2019, 03:31 PM
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Under ground seems the best defense. If they can't see you and your entrance is hidden you've little to worry about.
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Old 10-22-2019, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Profreed View Post
There was a man in Oregon who dug a whole series of tunnels and rooms under his house and the government knew nothing about it. He even had food supplies for up to 100 years with wheat packed in barrels in Nitrogen. So, it can be done. It just means that you have to have a good imagination.
Tunneling under a house isn't that hard to do. I've done it or helped to it half a dozen times or so. For running plumbing, putting a basement under a house or making a basement deeper or replacing rotting piers.

At this moment I have a hole punched in my basement floor and a hole about 5 feet deep below the floor because of a stuck standpoint. If I wanted to it wouldn't be that hard to make the hole big enough to get into then using 5 gallon buckets to remove the dirt under the floor.

Proper support and bracing would be the most important thing. From there it wouldn't be that difficult to tunnel to the edge of the building and start working my way up, stopping about 1 foot below the surface as an emergency escape. From there, fill the hole back in, put carpet over it then put junk on top of the carpet. No reason for ANYONE else to know it was done. All sorts of stuff could be stored down there.
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