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Old 07-26-2019, 11:45 PM
hardcalibres hardcalibres is offline
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The person I responded to originally did.
Then you should have added that quote above that text so that we all know what you are trying to say (and to whom). That is what the +" button is for.....

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I find it funny that you have literally no idea what it’s like here, but you have all the answers.
I find it funny that I have literally no idea where you live, but I was still able to correctly calculate/assess that you were exaggerating (which you admit).
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:36 AM
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Every morning I see the snails outside our trailer heading back to bed and think I should grab some and purge them and give them a try with garlic butter but I haven't gotten around to it. I would cook them in wine, finish them off in garlic butter and serve on a bed of dandelion greens and purslane with a few blackberries all from the yard.
I like them done up in a stuffing. No one can tell them from turkey giblets. If there's any left, I dice up the stuffing and mix it with herbed rice and stuff it all into a green pepper and oven it again. I might cook weird sometimes but no one's ever not gotten full and folks often ask for my recipes.
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:43 AM
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I live in a hardwood forest area. Oak, hickory, walnut, and pecan. The forest produces a tremendous amount of calories, but it produces it once per year (at best). Gathering and storing the nut mast in the fall, is just as important for humans as squirrels.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:16 PM
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I thought the hazelnut harvest would be in fall but noticed evidence that the squirrels have been taking them now . My point is it is not enough to know what to find, but when and exactly where and to be able to harvest multiple things as efficiently as possible because your energy expenditure gathering food and heating fuel, if times were tough enough that you had to depend on it , then you will not be able to afford wasted calories wandering about . Indigenous populations managed but not at present day populations . I am betting the know how of how to do things most efficiently also meant survival . Also if only the cagiest of our wildlife are going to survive so those we are running across are either going to be hunted out or they are going to change behaviour to live , shifting territories and being far more cautious of humans and that would be taught for generations as well . I wonder if plants and fish would develop tactics to survive if preasured towards depletion ? I think any group would need to have a lot of discipline and skill to work together with that efficiency if it meant survival in a time of higher competition to survive . Maybe not because we are already pushing a lot of our ecosystems to extinction . I am into regenerative permaculture now because I want to be able to have a future for my kids , for certain there could be times when more skills than gardening and raising animals well are needed .
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:45 PM
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...My point is it is not enough to know what to find, but when and exactly where and to be able to harvest multiple things as efficiently as possible because your energy expenditure gathering food and heating fuel, if times were tough enough that you had to depend on it , then you will not be able to afford wasted calories wandering about. ...I am into regenerative permaculture now because I want to be able to have a future for my kids , for certain there could be times when more skills than gardening and raising animals well are needed .
Exactly! Being able to know when as well as what and where to harvest, forage and gather are incredibly important.
By far the best tool(s) that I have found to keep track of such things are two that don't necessarily spring to mind when thinking about this matter. A combination of maps of my local resources from Google Earth as well as a method I derived that uses Win batch files to label and categorize virtually everything I do on my computer with extreme granularity affords me a level of control unmatched by any other process I've tried to date.
Here, I partially describe the method I use: https://www.survivalistboards.com/sh...90&postcount=8
Every edible resource on my groups territory is cataloged with a unique resource ID, plotted on a map with a location and time stamped with availability.
I keep both 'hard' and digital copies of these mapped resources at mutiple locations.
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:28 PM
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The Cambium layer of most trees is edible and fairly nutritious, the average forest has many tons of food in the form of the trees themselves.

The cambium layer is high in vitamin c, fiber and at 500 to 600 calories per pound fairly nutritional. Most cambium is a bit bitter and strongly flavored but it beats starvation and rickets. Some trees are quite poisonous and contain cyanide and or tannin such as the Yew and cherry trees etc, but the vast majority of trees have edible cambium layers.

Pine trees, including fir trees which are also in the Pinaceae family contain a great deal of vitamin c in their needles as well as their cambium layer, one can boil the needles in water and make a tea for vitamin c intake.

Here in the Pacific Northwest we also have a great deal of wild roses growing in the forests. These are also a great source of vitamin c, go out in the fall and collect the rose apples as they dry by the gunny sack full and use the dried rose apples for tea in the winter. The seeds can also be roasted and ground into a nutritious food. The seeds do contain a form of cyanide like apple seeds cherry seeds etc but the roasting takes care of that. Most of the rose apples will stay on the plants even in winter and can be harvested throughout the winter if need be.

"Surviving" in the forest is a different thing from having a healthy happy life in the forest. Doesn't take all that much to simply survive, but to be healthy and happy it takes some know how and understanding of each region. What works here is not exactly the same as what will work in other regions.
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Old 10-16-2019, 05:12 PM
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Depends of the forest...Lewis and Clark almost starved to death coming through the bitter roots

they were armed as good as they could be

had native guides

were all soldiers under orders who had great wilderness skills
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Baddogg5 View Post
Depends of the forest...Lewis and Clark almost starved to death coming through the bitter roots

they were armed as good as they could be

had native guides

were all soldiers under orders who had great wilderness skills
I have trekked some of the L&C trail in Idaho & camped where they did in several instances. That crew was as tough as square nails. Amazing they only lost one in the whole trip & it appears that was from acute appendicitis.

https://sites.google.com/a/worcester...terroots-essay
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Baddogg5 View Post
Depends of the forest...Lewis and Clark almost starved to death coming through the bitter roots

they were armed as good as they could be

had native guides

were all soldiers under orders who had great wilderness skills
And the Lewis and Clark expedition was saved from starvation in "this" region by the Nez Perce in Sept of 1805...
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:09 AM
Major Mjolnir Major Mjolnir is offline
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Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
And the Lewis and Clark expedition was saved from starvation in "this" region by the Nez Perce in Sept of 1805...
They certainly were, Lewis wrote on the 18th: " this morning we finished the remainder of our last coult. we dined & suped on a skant proportion of portable soupe, [4] a few canesters of which, a little bears oil and about 20 lbs. of candles form our stock of provision, the only resources being our guns & packhorses. the first is but a poor dependance in our present situation where there is nothing upon earth exept ourselves and a few small pheasants, small grey Squirrels, and a blue bird of the vulter kind about the size of a turtle dove or jay bird. [5] our rout lay along the ridge of a high mountain course S. 20 W. 18 m. used the snow for cooking.ó" https://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.ed...jrn.1805-09-18

The previous 6 days they had eaten almost all of 193 pounds of 'portable soup', two days later the Nez Perce gave them enough salted salmon and camas root that some of them were rolling around sick.
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Old 10-18-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Baddogg5 View Post
Depends of the forest...Lewis and Clark almost starved to death coming through the bitter roots

they were armed as good as they could be

had native guides

were all soldiers under orders who had great wilderness skills
And then... There was the Donner party...
Got hungry enough to consider killing each other just to have meat....

When things get that bad with native guides....

It's gonna be worse when you don't have experienced guides.

Just because some of us grew up in the country, raising our own vegetables, killing our own animals for food... Doesn't make us prepared to find wild edibles... Even those of us raised eating "weeds" aren't near prepared to find enough wild food to survive on a day to day basis, for any length of time...

There just ain't that much out there... Anyone that has actually attempted to survive for any length of time on wild food will tell you... Anything that can be eaten is soon gone and then it's gonna be move on or starve...

There were a lot less people living off the forest back in the day... Once the farmers fields stop feeding the cities.... None of us are gonna find enough to eat... And while we'd all like to imagine growing our own munchies.... I suspect that we are all going to be in dire straits.... Very quickly.

May as well do everything we can to prevent the catastrophe for as long as we can.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:24 PM
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I don’t think there will be much forest left after the first year of shtf. The great burning will destroy everything from coast to coast. The nuke plants will be the finishing blow.

People rarely consider the multi million acre fires that will be burning throughout the continent. Unless you are on a boat or underground you will be facing that as the number one threat.

Cities will burn just the same.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:26 AM
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You guys are all doom and gloom... I think YOUR numbers are ridiculous (but my opinion of course). And regardless of where you are, you'll eventually get at least a "visitor"... my point which you missed, was that the average schmuck is going to die fairly quickly since they have no skills at all. And no, I don't worry about your 10's of millions, because most aren't going to be randomly wandering the countryside and off in my direction which is nowhere and off the beaten path.
Agreed. There are too many factors as to why the rural areas likely won't be overrun by those in the cities. Cities breed apathy when it comes to preparedness and many are extremely dependent on government services. Even in suburban areas, most will sit and wait...the waiting game will be their demise. Water will likely be a bigger factor than food for many regions, but even with water, lack of food will kill any thoughts of traveling long distance. I consume about between 3000-4000 calories backpacking, how far are weakened people going to travel on foot while undernourished? Not far.

Foraging? I don't buy it from the masses. Sure, knowledge is power, but is useless without practiced application. Again, aside from food and water, exposure will likely eliminate the majority within 72 hours on the road, in the woods. I honestly don't believe there is more than 10% of a city population with the knowledge, skills, physical fitness, and preparedness mindset capable of even having a chance to survive in a rural environment. Of that 10%, I would suspect only 10% would be lucky enough to survive the other rigors of a non-permissive or extremely hostile environment.

Nope. Major SHTF where people can sit at home, and they will. They will either die of dehydration, sanitation issues, weather conditions, or personal health conditions long before they even fantasize about foraging in some forest 100 miles away. I won't even consider this an urban population concern, there are millions in rural towns that will suffer the same fate.

You knock out power, transportation/distribution, communication, and government services for just a year, and you're looking at way more than 70-80% of the American population at significant risk of not living beyond the first 90 days and likely less if at the extreme seasonal weather conditions...the majority of those are not likely going to be far from their current domicile.

Sorry, mental fortitude and knowledge won't be enough to survive. Even with prudent preparations, supplies, good location, water and other natural resources, low population density, moderate weather conditions, and even limited security threats...you'll still need excellent physical conditioning and health, and a whole lot of luck to survive such a significant SHTF scenario. Foraging is fun and a good exercise to practice familiarity and comfort in plant identification, or even tracking small game, but if that's your plan, you've already failed.

ROCK6
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Old 10-20-2019, 12:53 AM
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Yes but these skills will be of use beyond the event, provided you make it... Learning after would be like starting all over= way harder.
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sonya1 View Post
If we had to survive right now on what's just out there in forest, we probably could if we had some basic carbs like rice for calories in addition. There are about a million rabbits, berries, fungi ( which I hate but would eat if I was really hungry) , other green plants you can eat. I am learning about new things one can eat all the time here. Some look like weeds, but they are ok if cooked right. But if SHTF people are probably going to hit the corn fields first. I don't think food is going to be any problem for us, but protection from whoever is going to try to take it away from us is. Almost nobody has a small army to defend what they have. I have stopped worrying about food a while ago.
If you don't have rice, you can get valuable complex carbohydrates from many wild edibles.

For example, such as cattails that are available in any season at almost any latitude. Most of the grasses are edible and their seeds are a rich source of complex carbohydrates as well. Lamb's Quarter seeds are another source of carbs, plus they have some of the richest levels of protein in the plant world.

There are lots of sources of carbs Out There, although they are not the comfort food that we are familiar with, like rice.
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:13 AM
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If you don't have rice, you can get valuable complex carbohydrates from many wild edibles.

For example, such as cattails that are available in any season at almost any latitude. Most of the grasses are edible and their seeds are a rich source of complex carbohydrates as well. Lamb's Quarter seeds are another source of carbs, plus they have some of the richest levels of protein in the plant world.

There are lots of sources of carbs Out There, although they are not the comfort food that we are familiar with, like rice.
You tried harvesting them?

I've done chestnuts and acorns this year.... Let's just say I'm going to increase my grain stocks!
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:53 AM
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And then... There was the Donner party... Even those of us raised eating "weeds" aren't near prepared to find enough wild food to survive on a day to day basis, for any length of time...

There just ain't that much out there... Anyone that has actually attempted to survive for any length of time on wild food will tell you... Anything that can be eaten is soon gone and then it's gonna be move on or starve...
The Donner party failed primarily because they were snowed in - the L & C exp. almost failed several times because of lack of knowledge leading to bad timing. It's impossible to say for sure but it's likely that they could have over wintered in the valleys but that would have probably meant failure of their mission.
Through no fault of their own they had no knowledge of the predominent plant food staples of the land they crossed: "Psoralea esculenta" aka 'Prairie turnip', "Lomatium cous" aka 'Biscuitroot', "Lewisia rediviva" aka 'Bitteroot', "Camassia quamash" aka 'camas' and "Sagittaria latifolia" aka 'wapato', several more.
It's likely, in that area, that the whitebark pine was important for it's nuts and the ponderosa was primarily used for it's cambium.
"Lewisia rediviva" aka 'Bitteroot' is an edible (root) sub-alpine relative of Purslane and a plant that was cataloged in bloom by Lewis when the party was coming back across the mountains in the Spring at Lolo Creek. It was enormously important to the Natives of that region and is the food plant for which the mountains are named.
The problem with the L & C expedition was that they were there on the ridges at the wrong time not that the region had no food. The ungulates as well as other game (protein) were still eating grass in the valleys and the predators - bears for fat, where there with them.

A study of pine nut seeds per pound by WSU: http://forestry.wsu.edu/wp-content/u...eNut_Sizes.pdf
Pinus monophylla Single leaf pinyon 500
Pinus sabiniana Digger pine 580
Pinus coulteri Coulter pine 620
Pinus edulis Pinyon pine 1900
*Pinus albicaulis Whitebark pine 3,000
*Pinus ponderosa Ponderosa pine 12,000
Pseudotsuga macrocarpa Bigcone Douglas-fir 23,000
Abies lasiocarpa Subalpine fir 34,400
Pseudotsuga menziesii Douglas-fir 60,000
Pinus contorta var latifolia Lodgepole pine 94,000

A study of trees 'bark stripped' by the Nez Perce and others in two areas of the Bitterroots.
https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_other/...fsson_t001.pdf
"On the steep slopes of the Fales Flat study area, the forest structure is patchy with inland Douglas-fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii var. glauca (Beissn.) A.E. Murray making up 62% of stems), and ponderosa pine 23%, and lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta Dougl. ex Loud.) 12%. Engelmann spruce (Picea engelmannii Parry ex Engelm.), whitebark pine (Pinus albicaulis Engelm.), and subalpine fir (Abies lasiocarpa (Hook.) Nutt.) also occur rarely. ..."

"Northern Paiute "Bitterroot and biscuitroot have long been major trade items exported by the Harney Valley PaiuteÖIn 1982, a gallon of cleaned, dried bitterroot sold for $80, and four gallons of fresh biscuitroot for $35." (Couture et al. 1986:157)" https://nhmu.utah.edu/native-plants/...%20Biscuitroot

In September 1805, Clark wrote about the abundance of camas bulbs he saw: "emence quantity of the quawmash or Pas-shi-co root gathered & in piles about the plains." http://www.lewis-clark.org/article/2129
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Old 10-22-2019, 03:02 AM
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Please do not eat raw leaves in a survival situation. They'll end up finding you in the fetal position with explosive diarrhea.
Leaves cannot provide you with the necessary nutrition, raw or cooked. Even animals equipped to digest leaves need to consume massive amount of leaves to derive the necessary nutrition. What edible leaves are good for is providing you with vitamins and minerals but those are needed in small amount. They are also a good source of fibre as well.

Now what should you eat in an SHTF situation (which can apply to a survival situation)?

Assuming you have at least 1 month of food ration on you.

You must first scout for trees such as oak (which is everywhere from where I am and in many places around the world). These produce acorn. Untreated acorns by itself have tannin which will prevent you from absorbing nutrients and hence cause starvation. But if you process the acorn over a few days by putting it in cold water and discarding the brown water over and over, you should have an amazing source of carbohydrate that can be turned into bread, powder, porridge etc. Even better acorns that have been dried can be stored for up to three years. A couple of trees alone can provide you enough acorn for a year! Untreated acorn can be turned into acorn oil through distillation. The oil can be used as cooking oil and a food source and fire starter among others. It can be used as a skin care product.

Now, while acorn is a good source of carb, it is not a good source of complete protein. You can start a cricket farm for example and baked the cricket and turn them into a powder that could be mixed with the acorn powder. You should only need around 10 kg of cricket powder a year, added to the acorn powder to complete the protein profile.

You can hunt for small animals, fish, and birds as a source of meat that can be turned into jerky and store for a long time. You can even have a mouse farm using a few breeding pairs mice that can be transported. Mice consume very little food and acorn will be a good feed.

Cattail stems can be sauteed with the meat to provide a morale boosting meal reminiscent of noodle or pasta. Note cat tail by itself is not a proper source of carbohydrate and protein. You can't survive on cattail alone

Edible leaves while not a good source of carb (in fact you take energy to digest these) and protein, are a good source of minerals, vitamins and fibres. Think of them as supplements rather than food in a survival term. NEVER consider them as food.

Pine pollen is a good source of protein and carb in spring.

You should be constantly harvesting berries, fruits, mushrooms etc to supplement your diet. By the sea, you can find all manners seafood and edible algae.
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Old 10-22-2019, 05:54 AM
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Agreed.
Foraging? I don't buy it from the masses. Sure, knowledge is power, but is useless without practiced application. Again, aside from food and water, exposure will likely eliminate the majority within 72 hours on the road, in the woods. I honestly don't believe there is more than 10% of a city population with the knowledge, skills, physical fitness, and preparedness mindset capable of even having a chance to survive in a rural environment. Of that 10%, I would suspect only 10% would be lucky enough to survive the other rigors of a non-permissive or extremely hostile environment.

Nope. Major SHTF where people can sit at home, and they will. They will either die of dehydration, sanitation issues, weather conditions, or personal health conditions long before they even fantasize about foraging in some forest 100 miles away. I won't even consider this an urban population concern, there are millions in rural towns that will suffer the same fate.

You knock out power, transportation/distribution, communication, and government services for just a year, and you're looking at way more than 70-80% of the American population at significant risk of not living beyond the first 90 days and likely less if at the extreme seasonal weather conditions...the majority of those are not likely going to be far from their current domicile.

Sorry, mental fortitude and knowledge won't be enough to survive. Even with prudent preparations, supplies, good location, water and other natural resources, low population density, moderate weather conditions, and even limited security threats...you'll still need excellent physical conditioning and health, and a whole lot of luck to survive such a significant SHTF scenario. Foraging is fun and a good exercise to practice familiarity and comfort in plant identification, or even tracking small game, but if that's your plan, you've already failed.

ROCK6
ROCK 6 = BULLSEYE....

Our isolated 18.86 acre BOL is situated in near wilderness like healthy old growth forest. Which in the warm months is teaming with birds, fish, large & small game, mushrooms, berries & various other edibles that can be foraged.

Caveat you have to have the gear, experience & skill to harvest those things properly, which most don't.

Winter months is a whole different story. Try fishing, hunting & foraging in sub 0 five 5 feet deep snow blizzard.

WINTER MONTHS = If you don't have considerable skills, well kept stores & a relatively "sustainable" BOL = STARVATION.

Over the years we installed a 25KW hydroelectric generator system, developed a very productive fenced 2 acre garden, 5 acres pasture, planted a fruit/nut tree orchard, a vineyard, built a fort Knox chicken coup, barn & sheds for livestock, , built a large green-house, built a walk in sized smoke-house, 3 root cellars, ect., to make our BOL refuge relatively sustainable.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:38 AM
Major Mjolnir Major Mjolnir is offline
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Originally Posted by Eenea View Post
...Edible leaves while not a good source of carb (in fact you take energy to digest these) and protein, are a good source of minerals, vitamins and fibres. Think of them as supplements rather than food in a survival term. NEVER consider them as food.

Pine pollen is a good source of protein and carb in spring. ...
Welcome to the forum. Good mention on the pollen I eat a little every Spring just to keep it in mind. While you are correct, in general, that the digestibility of most leaves, tree and otherwise, are increased by cooking there are some that are significant sources of protein - moringa, katuk, stinging nettle, Chinese mahogany, and others.
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