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Old 06-23-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by firewallsrus View Post
I couldn't agree more. I don't know if experience balanced against machine size and horsepower played a roll here, but I can't believe the number of people being sold oversize machines as their first bikes.

The Honda Goldwing is another example of the "first bike" for older newbies phenomenon.


It's really about being able to handle the bike under all conditions, including emergencies. If you can't ride yourself safely out of bad situations, like a sideways skid, you may have trouble somewhere down the line. Not that you should get into such a skid, but occasionally the back end wants to come around. Like I told my wife, being able to ride straight doesn't mean you know how to ride. Honestly, one of the best things a wanna be rider, even seasoned riders, should do is spend some time on dirt bikes. You learn a lot of things you otherwise wouldn't on a street bike.

None of this applies to the riders in this accident. It's likely things happen quickly and there was no time for an evasive action. There was a similar accident around five years ago in Arizona I believe. I think a dozen people died and it was all because of a reckless driver that hit them head on. I believe that driver went to prision. Such a waist.

Edit: Read another article on this and it said the truck driver wasn't injured. They have not been able to reach him by phone since the accident. I hope he didn't skip out..
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by firewallsrus View Post
I couldn't agree more. I don't know if experience balanced against machine size and horsepower played a roll here, but I can't believe the number of people being sold oversize machines as their first bikes.

The Honda Goldwing is another example of the "first bike" for older newbies phenomenon.
I was manager of a large Boston Honda dealership when the Gullwing first came out. Didn't see newbies buying them then, but as the years went on I'm sure it happened. I never liked them. Didn't like the CB-750 either. I was then and forever after a BMW man. Still have an R75/6. Don't want anything newer. Too many moving parts in 'em.

Our lawyers strictly prohibited me from training new riders. There was a kind of grim pool in the shop as to what the lowest mileage to the crash would be among newbies. It ended when a guy came in to take possession of a new CB-500 (the stroked 450). He got on the bike, wound it up to about 7500 RPM and dumped the clutch. Wheelied it for about 40 feet into a row of parked cars.
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
When civilians ask me about suicide among vets I tell them that is GD lie being spewed by the MSM , from my personal experience the number one killer of my brothers and their wives /GF's has been Harley Davidson Motorcycle wrecks I know of 2 that were ran over at a red light while stopped waiting on it to turn green , SNIP.
Exactly what happened to me, obviously I lived through it but Iíll never be the same.


Iím not talking about these riders because I donít know them but RUBS have been a problem for as long as I can remember, inexperienced riders who figure just writing a check makes them instantly Billy Badass.

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Old 06-23-2019, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LibShooter View Post
ďThe DragonĒ is the shortest route to my sisterís house in North Georgia. Itís a beautiful drive, but I hardly ever take unless itís on a weekday in winter. Bikers and folks in their little Z-cars and MX-5s be crazy!


Yup, it is hard to find a time when that route is actually safe. Between the leaf-lookie-loos, the biker boyZ from ATL, and the random fast and furious folks... it has a history of fatalities. Iíd always leave about midnight to head to blood mountain (etc) and crash in the parking lot before sunrise.
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:43 PM
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I wasn't there and won't speculate on what caused it. I just hope those that were injured make full recoveries. We all know if you tip a bike over it can get lifelong bad in a hurry, let alone getting into any kind of accident.
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
It's really about being able to handle the bike under all conditions, including emergencies. If you can't ride yourself safely out of bad situations, like a sideways skid, you may have trouble somewhere down the line.
The guy who was my road racing exemplar told me: "If you ain't slidin', you ain't ridin'". So I went out and taught myself to slide my Metralla on asphalt. I probably only survived because that Bultaco only weighed 200 lbs. Believe it or not, I only lowsided it once.

Flattrackers and scrambles riders transitioned easily to paved track. Kenny Roberts is a prime example. It usually didn't work the other way. Calvin Rayborn was magic on a roadracer, but he never made it on the dirt.

My private advice to newbies after I left the business was to spend at least one full season on a lightweight dirt bike. Enduro bikes of the time were ideal, but a 125 motocrosser was OK. Only then get on a road bike, and even so nothing over 250cc for the next two years. Still good advice, IMHO.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
On both a bike and in a big truck.

On a bike I know I'm screwed if a car comes into my lane.
In my truck I know the car is screwed if it comes into my lane.

I don't want to be involved in either.

The attitudes of just about everyone on the road today is far different than it was 20 years ago.
I seriously think cell phones should be jammed in moving vehicles.
This would be a huge saver of lives.
not just driving, but cell phones have been making people dumb, forgetful, or just not paying attention to what they are doing all around.. just the other days someone in my home (not mentioning names) was going to make something to drink, put some water on the stove, turned it on, then went back to their cell phone.. they werent paying attention to which burner the water was on, which burner they turned on, or the thick smoke coming from the kitchen as a cast iron griddle went up in flames

i put the flames out before the whole kitchen went up, so i nearly had my house catch fire because of some moron on their cell phone and not paying attention to what they are doing
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
Edit: Read another article on this and it said the truck driver wasn't injured. They have not been able to reach him by phone since the accident. I hope he didn't skip out..
I wouldn't be available either. Not until the dust has settled. Talking to the wrong people could cause some serious legal problems.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:00 PM
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I wish I could see all the skid marks in one picture.

From what I can see I am wondering if something appeared in the truck's lane, he hit the brakes but the trailer brakes locked up on one side or a tire raised up. This causes the tail to wag the dog, driving him in a diagonal into the trees on the other side of the road.

(or it pulling right and him overcompensating.)
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralioth View Post
I wouldn't be available either. Not until the dust has settled. Talking to the wrong people could cause some serious legal problems.


Or worse, the rumor mill starts spewing out false explanations and the truck driver gets a visit from angry jar heads. Bad things follow.
I remember many years ago there was a Ranger murdered by a Pagan in Savanah (over nothing). It started a small war which grew to the extent of rangers kicking in doors of pagans trying to locate the murderer. It took the pagan pres visiting the Bat commander to try and get it stopped. From what I understand the commander said "turn over the murderer and it'll end". The next day the guy was delivered, hog tied and duct taped.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
One thing that's become prevalent these days are cars coming across the center line, both in straight stretches and curves. It's poor driving habits and distracted driving/cell phones. I've had people all the way over in my lane before they wake up and discover where they are. It's unnerving as hell..
I see this all the time while in my car and on the bike. Taking their half out of the middle. I have followed cars that look like a drunk is driving it. Cross the yellow line, wake up, correct, drift off the side, wake up, correct, repeat. Cell phone - likely texting.

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Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas View Post
The really telling part is when your meet someone that is cheating in a curve, they know it and don't even bother to try to move back in their lane. In my view that's an arrestable offense. Doesn't matter if I'm in my truck or on the bike. Unfortunately it's all to frequent and I don't understand what is going through their minds. I've considered writing the Sherrifs department about it, but haven't..

As to the cell phones I'm in 100% agreement. I have one of course, but refuse to use/answer it if I'm driving. I'll check it out at my next stop, but not while driving..
Ditto! My car has hands-free so I never touch the phone. On the bike the phone is in the backpack.

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Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
Wasn't gonna be the first to say it, but yeah. 'Nother factor may be that a lot of older guys who are now in the money buy a Harley for their first bike. Image thing. Crash fatality stats from the '70s bore this out in Mazzachusetts. (My home state from birth to 1977 - now a refugee.) Lawyers were the worst, so maybe that's a feature, not a bug. OTOH the my-first-bike-is-a-Hog disease also kilt a disproportionate number of doctors.
My brother in-law bought a real nice Road King as his first bike. Sis refused to ride with him. It got ridden maybe once or twice and now sits in the garage. Wants to sell it.

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Originally Posted by Corpus View Post
Since you say youíre a rider Iíd guess you notice motorcycles which makes me wonder why you think that riding 2 abreast is limited to Harley riders.

I can assure you it is not.
You seldom see sport bike or adventure bike or any other riders but cruiser riders ride two abreast. Picture going into a turn where the inside one goes wide and the other stays the line.

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Originally Posted by The Old Coach View Post
The guy who was my road racing exemplar told me: "If you ain't slidin', you ain't ridin'". So I went out and taught myself to slide my Metralla on asphalt. I probably only survived because that Bultaco only weighed 200 lbs. Believe it or not, I only lowsided it once.

Flattrackers and scrambles riders transitioned easily to paved track. Kenny Roberts is a prime example. It usually didn't work the other way. Calvin Rayborn was magic on a roadracer, but he never made it on the dirt.

My private advice to newbies after I left the business was to spend at least one full season on a lightweight dirt bike. Enduro bikes of the time were ideal, but a 125 motocrosser was OK. Only then get on a road bike, and even so nothing over 250cc for the next two years. Still good advice, IMHO.
You're talking about the heroes of my youth. Cal Rayborn, Kenny Roberts, Malcolm Smith. I started on a Honda 90 Scrambler. Rode the wheels off it, then got a Kawasaki 175, took the lights off, raced it, won, then moved up to Husky 450, Maico 450, quit racing and moved to the street. Kawasaki H1, 750 Honda, back to the dirt with a TT-600 (sliding fool ), then Roadstar (cruiser phase), along with DR-350 dirt. Just bought a Yamaha Tracer 900. The twisties are calling.

I disagree about buying a 125 motocrosser as first bike. No power until 8000 rpm and then look out. Modern motocrossers are just TOO TALL. You need to stand on a rock in order to throw your leg over.

https://dirtbikemagazine.com/2018-125-mx-shootout/

Finally, learn how to use the front brake. That's where ALL the stopping power is. I could never understand why Harley riders think that laying it down and sliding on steel will stop you faster than using the brakes.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post
not just driving, but cell phones have been making people dumb, forgetful, or just not paying attention to what they are doing all around.. just the other days someone in my home (not mentioning names) was going to make something to drink, put some water on the stove, turned it on, then went back to their cell phone.. they werent paying attention to which burner the water was on, which burner they turned on, or the thick smoke coming from the kitchen as a cast iron griddle went up in flames

i put the flames out before the whole kitchen went up, so i nearly had my house catch fire because of some moron on their cell phone and not paying attention to what they are doing
Oh, I don't think that needs a smartphone. My wife did something like because a favorite show was on TV about 1976. Fortunately melted aluminum doesn't stick to porcelain. Double fortunate that the pan wasn't Teflon coated.
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
I disagree about buying a 125 motocrosser as first bike. No power until 8000 rpm and then look out. Modern motocrossers are just TOO TALL. You need to stand on a rock in order to throw your leg over.

Finally, learn how to use the front brake. That's where ALL the stopping power is. I could never understand why Harley riders think that laying it down and sliding on steel will stop you faster than using the brakes.
Well, 125s weren't so tall back then. (Remember how old I am.) And yes the front brake does all the work on pavement. But didja ever ride one of the Guzzi tourers with the one front disk linked hydraulically to the rear brake pedal? The other disk was worked the normal way. It actually worked quite well on a big, heavy bike. Harley should copy it, if they haven't already.

There was a time (before WW2) when Harley front brakes were a joke, by our standards. (So were the brakes on the fabled Vincents of the 1950s, to which I can testify from personal experience.) Harley had an excuse; powerful brakes are hard to control on gravel roads, and in most of pre-WW2 America, outside the major cities, everything but the major highways was gravel.** You used the rear brake because it was too easy to lock the front. And laying the bike down works OK on gravel. We forget these thing now that 99% of America is paved. But the legend of "laid it down" lives on.

** in the Amish country of central Ohio you can still drive 20 miles and never see pavement. My Garmin made me do it not three months ago.
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:29 PM
Nomad, 2nd Nomad, 2nd is offline
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Or worse, the rumor mill starts spewing out false explanations and the truck driver gets a visit from angry jar heads. Bad things follow.
I remember many years ago there was a Ranger murdered by a Pagan in Savanah (over nothing). It started a small war which grew to the extent of rangers kicking in doors of pagans trying to locate the murderer. It took the pagan pres visiting the Bat commander to try and get it stopped. From what I understand the commander said "turn over the murderer and it'll end". The next day the guy was delivered, hog tied and duct taped.
That's one of the few things I miss.

We might hate each other in the barrics, but we work great together in the field, and God help you if you mess with one of us on libbo!


Easiest way to get your ass kicked:
Mess with a Doc.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
SNIP



My brother in-law bought a real nice Road King as his first bike. Sis refused to ride with him. It got ridden maybe once or twice and now sits in the garage. Wants to sell it.
Perfect example of a RUB.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post

You seldom see sport bike or adventure bike or any other riders but cruiser riders ride two abreast. Picture going into a turn where the inside one goes wide and the other stays the line. SNIP
I see it all the time and I didnít think it was that odd, I figured even crotch rocket riders can be taught how to hold their line.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post

Finally, learn how to use the front brake. That's where ALL the stopping power is. I could never understand why Harley riders think that laying it down and sliding on steel will stop you faster than using the brakes.

Either all the Harley riders youíve been exposed to are RUBS who havenít been riding for long enough for their lattes to get cold or youíre basing that on out of date information from back when we used to ride with no front brake at all.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:20 PM
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This thread diverges, but on the braking I learned in the stone age and I brake with both. In an emergency stop the rear tire is just beginning to sing and pretty hard on the front. Kind of a 60/40 thing I guess. Gently stops it's just the rear or easy on both front and rear. NEVER 100% on the front. In my book that's a recipe for disaster. Find a little sand or grit on the road and you'll find out what I mean..
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:31 PM
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Well, lacking any new news, let's let the thread drift.

Things are different today. Crotch rockets have so much front brake that the rear is never used at all in a hard stop. The weight transfer is so great that the rear wheel is barely on the ground, or maybe not on the ground at all. You have of course seen videos of guys doing "stoppies"? Even the old drum-braked racers I rode, you didn't touch the rear once you'd leaned the bike over. Doing so was an engraved invitation to a low-side.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:38 PM
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New Hampshire Union Leader.

https://www.unionleader.com/news/saf...996ef59ab.html

https://www.unionleader.com/news/saf...109008272.html

Keep watching. The national news will have forgotten it by tomorrow, if they haven't already. Local paper won't.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:46 PM
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The front drum brake on my old Flathead was so worthless you couldnít even rely on it to hold you still on a hill.

I rode dirt bikes for years as a kid and past my teens.
Big bikes too, YZ400ís and 490ís, RM370ís, CR500ís...
My first street legal bike as in legal for the road was an Ď81 CB750.
And when I finally got my license I had been riding the Flathead with the suicide clutch for a few years as well as a Yamaha XS650 I hacked up and a barely legal Buell M2 with all the race goodies.
I took one of the rider safety courses to get my license and a break on my insurance and I quickly learned that I wasnít as great a rider as I thought I was.

There were two Dr400ís and some of those 250cc Honda ďcruisersĒ and while I breezed through the class by using that street and trail I definitely learned from the class.

IMO no matter how good you think you are itís worth taking one of those classes, here in PA they offer an advanced course for those who donít need a license or who are not a beginner.
Iíd imagine other states offer it as well.
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Israel Putnam View Post
The front drum brake on my old Flathead was so worthless you couldnít even rely on it to hold you still on a hill.

I rode dirt bikes for years as a kid and past my teens.
Big bikes too, YZ400ís and 490ís, RM370ís, CR500ís...
My first street legal bike as in legal for the road was an Ď81 CB750.
And when I finally got my license I had been riding the Flathead with the suicide clutch for a few years as well as a Yamaha XS650 I hacked up and a barely legal Buell M2 with all the race goodies.
I took one of the rider safety courses to get my license and a break on my insurance and I quickly learned that I wasnít as great a rider as I thought I was.

There were two Dr400ís and some of those 250cc Honda ďcruisersĒ and while I breezed through the class by using that street and trail I definitely learned from the class.

IMO no matter how good you think you are itís worth taking one of those classes, here in PA they offer an advanced course for those who donít need a license or who are not a beginner.
Iíd imagine other states offer it as well.
They offer the advance course here to and I've considered taking it. I have gone out and watched them, and I'm pretty much there already, but it still wouldn't hurt. What I'd really like to take is the motor office course, but I don't think theres a way to do it..
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