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Old 10-08-2019, 05:17 PM
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Well if running towards shots fired sounds attractive, then perhaps a career in law enforcement would sound equally attractive. Shots fired within hearing distance? Arm yourself and be prepared to defend yourself should it come to that. I've been within a short distance from a police stand off and trust me it's not cool...
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:50 AM
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Aerindel Aerindel is offline
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People are strange. Which given the overwhelming sentiment on this thread of cower in place, means that I am the strange one I guess.

I've been part of several police standoffs and I thought they where awesome.

I got to see a cop get shot in the chest with a 7mm mag (car door, plus armor plus badge saved him), I saw snipers in full desert camo and NODs deploy around me, I saw a robot fall through the front porch decking, got to see flashbangs deployed and in the end pronounced the two fatalities in that house. I though it was all pretty amazing. At one point I had to go run an errand in the middle of it and felt like crawling out of my skin because I wasn't there. The idea of not being there to see bad stuff going down in my AO is unimaginable to me. I guess its just my personality type, it manifests as almost physical discomfort to not be there when the **** is going down. Its all my circus, they are all my monkeys. Most of the people I know here feel the same way. (Of course most of the people I choose to associate with have certain qualities in common)

Yeah, it's probably not a survival trait, but I don't know how else to be.

The overwhelming majority of people who feel that trouble in their area isn't there business does point to SHTF playing out in the worst ways we imagine it will in the cities. Everyone on their own, waiting for the professionals to fix it for them because its not their problem, yet.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:52 AM
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I'm in the UK, so the sound of gunshots is not normal, so I'd stay indoors, and if out head in the opposite direction.

As for fighting in the neighbours garden, I'd call the police, as my neighbours are horrendous and report me for everything.
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:01 AM
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Best advice out there. Hunker down, protect your own, and stay inside. Wait for the all clear (which may actually come several hours after it actually is clear). One of the first things drilled into you as an EMT is "don't become another patient". Scene safety reigns supreme.

I live in a university town, relatively small, suburban, no freeways, closest metro area over 100 miles away. We still had an officer get shot and killed about 12 years ago. Some "Mr. Helper" decided when he heard gunshots that he should grab his .45 and jump on his bicycle and go be a hero. Ended up becoming another patient, making the situation even more complicated. At least he wasn't shot by law enforcement, he took one from the shooter. Had he stayed out of it, that second cop might not have gotten shot (he survived).

Seriously, don't complicate matters. You may think you're there to help, but if you're honest with yourself, you're just another lookie-loo. Leave it to the trained professionals.

and remember, this is the URBAN survival sub-forum. Rural area? Totally different.
A lot of us on this forum are former professionals... with military training... (I did 28 years, and 3 combat tours)

I, for example chose to live in a rural area... because I'm sick of people...

However, I and others like me, have plenty of wartime experience in urban the environment.

Not saying we're the "hero type,"
but most of us are the "can't stand to see bad guys win type."
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:47 PM
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People are strange. Which given the overwhelming sentiment on this thread of cower in place, means that I am the strange one I guess.

I've been part of several police standoffs and I thought they where awesome.

I got to see a cop get shot in the chest with a 7mm mag (car door, plus armor plus badge saved him), I saw snipers in full desert camo and NODs deploy around me, I saw a robot fall through the front porch decking, got to see flashbangs deployed and in the end pronounced the two fatalities in that house. I though it was all pretty amazing. At one point I had to go run an errand in the middle of it and felt like crawling out of my skin because I wasn't there. The idea of not being there to see bad stuff going down in my AO is unimaginable to me. I guess its just my personality type, it manifests as almost physical discomfort to not be there when the **** is going down. Its all my circus, they are all my monkeys. Most of the people I know here feel the same way. (Of course most of the people I choose to associate with have certain qualities in common)

Yeah, it's probably not a survival trait, but I don't know how else to be.

The overwhelming majority of people who feel that trouble in their area isn't there business does point to SHTF playing out in the worst ways we imagine it will in the cities. Everyone on their own, waiting for the professionals to fix it for them because its not their problem, yet.

Cower in place? hardly, prepare to defend yourself if it comes down to that, most definitely. There is a difference between caution and cowardice. You do know that...right?


Not saying one shouldn't be aware or concerned about what is going on around them, they should. How much bad stuff do you need to see before you've seen enough? How many times do you need to put yourself in harms way see what's going on, before it dawns on you it's not the brightest thing to do...


To equate violence with entertainment (a circus) is absurd. Really, who frames violence in that way. For starters it's probably someone who has little to no experience with violent encounters or is a stone cold sociopath. I get the whole sheep dog mentality thing, I really do but even that can be taken too far...
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Old 10-09-2019, 05:31 PM
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“Not my circus, not my monkeys” is a common saying and has been used several times on this thread.

And I do think circus and monkeys is a very apt description. I can think of few better. It’s hard to not look at the cops, bad guys, neighbors, etc all running around without thinking “what a circus”.

Interesting though to mention being a sociopath. It’s far from the first time that has come up. There is evidence that the same genetics behind sociopaths are the same genetics that create first responders. On my phone right now so I can’t post a link but if your interested google “extreme altruists and sociopaths”
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Old 10-10-2019, 11:33 AM
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I've been part of several police standoffs and I thought they where awesome.
If you want to be a part of it when the **** goes down, then join up. Become a cop/firefighter/emt. Just don't go charging in as a Mr. Helper, because there's a damn good chance you're going to end up shot as well.

Just sayin'
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
People are strange. Which given the overwhelming sentiment on this thread of cower in place, means that I am the strange one I guess.

I've been part of several police standoffs and I thought they where awesome.

I got to see a cop get shot in the chest with a 7mm mag (car door, plus armor plus badge saved him), I saw snipers in full desert camo and NODs deploy around me, I saw a robot fall through the front porch decking, got to see flashbangs deployed and in the end pronounced the two fatalities in that house. I though it was all pretty amazing. At one point I had to go run an errand in the middle of it and felt like crawling out of my skin because I wasn't there. The idea of not being there to see bad stuff going down in my AO is unimaginable to me. I guess its just my personality type, it manifests as almost physical discomfort to not be there when the **** is going down. Its all my circus, they are all my monkeys. Most of the people I know here feel the same way. (Of course most of the people I choose to associate with have certain qualities in common)

Yeah, it's probably not a survival trait, but I don't know how else to be.

The overwhelming majority of people who feel that trouble in their area isn't there business does point to SHTF playing out in the worst ways we imagine it will in the cities. Everyone on their own, waiting for the professionals to fix it for them because its not their problem, yet.
The strange people are the ones who go without a clue into harms way knowing absolutely nothing of the situation and think they can be a fly on the wall bystander without any threat applicable to them. Re- your police jollies... Were you armed, offering assistance, tell them you would rush the bad guy for them or were you just someone getting in the way?

In a hostile situation such as a barricaded situation, Everyone who is not a participating player is a liability that the cops have to deal with that diverts them away from the mission, keep people safe and keep the people who aren't smart enough to stay away safe from harm. IT is why there are perimeters. NOBODY should be within sight of the inner perimeter but cops and crooks. The outer perimeter is where people like YOU should be and you shouldn't be able to see anything or be shot at. IF you are not YOU ARE A PROBLEM.

IF you were close enough to see an officer taking rounds you were TOO FXXXING CLOSE and should NOT have been there. I don't care what kind of jollies you got from it. You are a distraction they should not have to deal with. Cops have a liability of having to look in 2 different directions and that is one too many when they have to keep the gawkers from becoming collateral damage, and they get sued if they can't keep the loons away.

IF you need to get your thrill, take the tests, go to the academy and then strap on the gun and take the sharp end of the spear along with all the crap that goes with it. Other wise stay way far away and let the adults do their job and you can read about it online. Seriously you sound like a little kid who left the yard without permission and ..it was soooooo exciting.

Really, anyone who blindly responds to a police confrontation where rounds can go astray so they can feel alive or excited..., has some serious issues that need a shrink.

Anyone who responds to the OP situation is asking to be a victim and could be shot by anyone including the cops. They don't know who the players are involved and they will have to sort it out and a nosy Nellie could get their nose shot off.
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:11 PM
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If you want to be a part of it when the **** goes down, then join up. Become a cop/firefighter/emt. Just don't go charging in as a Mr. Helper, because there's a damn good chance you're going to end up shot as well.

Just sayin'
As the song says, two out of three ain’t bad.

Come on, you had to see that one coming didn’t you? It’s not like I made any secret of it.

Also, I have been shot. Do not recommend, but also, life is short. Nobody lives forever anyway. Not so afraid of it happening again that I will let it stop me from living my life.

Additionally, surprised to see so much blind faith in the authorities here. Police are going to be the tip of the spear of what many of us are preparing for here, diverting the police may be the most important thing someday, but you will never know what side of the overpass guard rail to be on if your only ever reading about it in the news the next day. Hopefully you never find yourself the one in trouble and realize that nobody is coming for you because all your neighbors they are sitting in their houses making sure not to get in the way of the authorities.

I do think I understand Kitty Genoese a little better now at least.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:29 PM
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I do think I understand Kitty Genovese a little better now at least.
Again, that's a little harsh compared to what the folks here on the board are saying.

In the Genovese case, 38 people (allegedly) heard or saw the attack, but none of those people (allegedly) called the police (and that's really oversimplifying it, of course).

Would I have responded to that? Probably, but someone calling for "Help!" vs. just hearing shots fired is a whole different ball of wax. Also, while I don't consider myself the "tip of the spear", I'm a part of the shaft at least, so that's a different mindset.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:22 PM
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Again, that's a little harsh compared to what the folks here on the board are saying.

In the Genovese case, 38 people (allegedly) heard or saw the attack, but none of those people (allegedly) called the police (and that's really oversimplifying it, of course).

Would I have responded to that? Probably, but someone calling for "Help!" vs. just hearing shots fired is a whole different ball of wax. Also, while I don't consider myself the "tip of the spear", I'm a part of the shaft at least, so that's a different mindset.
A reasonable response.

Yes. I'm was little harsh. But some things really rub me the wrong way. One of those is the general publics selfishness, fear and apathy when it comes to emergencies in THEIR area. It seems many people just live in a place but they don't really consider it THEIR place and don't take any responsibility for it, they just dial 911 whenever the fancy takes them and send people like ME out there at 4AM to help out their neighbors, as if just because your a 'first responder' you are some kind of expendable superhero. Now, to be fair, I'm only a certified firefighter and EMT so I can do officially what I would do anyway but I will never cease to be amazed by how useless 'normal' people become when they think there is trouble.

I was the literally first responder on a car wreck once, there where probably twenty people standing in a circle around a car on its side, and underneath the driver was pinned. Nobody was doing anything. All I had to say was "Hey, help me roll this car over" and most of them jumped in and we had that car moved in about 30 seconds. But of course everyone had been standing there for ten minutes watching her die because they where all afraid to do something. I have a dozen other stories like that.

SHTF is only going to even happen BECAUSE people don't take responsibility for the world around them. They just keep their heads down and muddle through their own little life and have outsourced the nuts and bolts of making a society work out to everyone else.

We don't actually need firefighters or Emts or police, or military. Those tasks used to be taken care of by THE PEOPLE but at some point the people decided to just become a work force and everyone specialized to the point where now 99% of people are afraid to do anything because they may get in the way of someone in uniform.

This is the secret of first responders. Training didn't make us this way....we where just normal people would have been doing this stuff anyway, training just made us better at it, ANYONE could do this if they just pulled their head out of their....navel and decided to actually be a citizen in the Heinlein sense instead of the "I pay my taxes, let someone else take care of it" sense.
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Old 10-11-2019, 12:23 PM
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I do think I understand Kitty Genoese a little better now at least.
Except the truth behind it it is the only 3 people who realized what was going on did actually help. Two called the cops, one tried to help Kitty. The other 1 or so witnesses (there is no evidence of 38 witnesses originally claimed) had no idea it was anything other than a minor fight. It happened in two or three different places so no one saw it all, no one knew she was stabbed until the very end and she was stabbed in the lungs right away so she wasn't able to scream for help. What most people saw was a brief fight that lasted a short while and both people involved in it walked away.

There are three bars within sight of where I live. A few times a year we hear or see a fight that amounts to maybe one weak punch being thrown or a few yelled words. After everyone walks away it never crosses our minds to call the cops. That is pretty much what most of Kitty's bystanders saw/thought too. So I can see how most of them didn't think it was that serious.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:06 PM
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Not unless they have become a threat to me and mine. I'm not going to put myself in a position contrary to survival,unless my family is threatened. I will monitor the situation from a safe vantage point and move my family to opposite side of the house to put as many walls between them and the weapon fire.Render an all clear when danger has passed.
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