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Old 04-18-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Here’s an interesting question. When they asked to see the firearm, what if he says no? Or “it’s not here”?
Do they demand to look around, search the house? If he says no do they arrest him?
No search warrant. No permission.
And how can they simply confiscate it?
If you went online and told the state that you had an illegal gun in your house could the police come in and search for it without your permission? If they find it, can they confiscate it? If a warrant was needed, wouldn't they be prepared with one?

He could have delayed things by refusing to let them in, but eventually they will break down his door, shoot his dog (they always shoot the dog!) and maybe shoot him and/or his wife and kid. He can't win.

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Old 04-18-2019, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatpat View Post
I’m being careful what I post, not sure my next plan of action
Personally, I think your next plan of action should be one of wisdom and common sense. I speak from experience (10x more $ involved) when I say do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Consider yourself fortunate to have your family safe, intact , you’ll be with them tonight and your home is not looking like WACO. You haven’t enough money to hire lawyers to fight the govt. Their visit to your door proves that you’re on their radar. If you go poking an angry, rabid dog (fed govt.) in the ass with a sharp stick, you won’t win the battle or like the result. If you become an irritation to them, you might find the next time you try to buy a firearm, you can’t pass a background check.....ever again. I completely sympathize with you, but choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day. If this incident is the worst thing that happens to you in your lifetime....you’ve got it made.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:04 PM
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Very level headed advice from Mr. Kersey. In total agreement .

Although it sounds like the seize order was authorized by Special Agent Jack Offerman.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatpat View Post
They were legitimate, I have there info and a “property receipt”
Hope you handed them the stripped lower.

See if you can transfer it out of state.


If your ever giving up any guns..... Remember what is a gun and what is "parts"


Smart people registered at least one FA prior to 1986.
They retractable their Thompson out and train with it no matter if that's their only one or one of 6.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCalHippie View Post
As far as I know under the new laws, you are not allowed to loan a gun out and you are required to notify the DOJ if the gun is stolen or sold. I'm not sure about destroyed, I had two ARs burn up in the Saddle fire but have no way of knowing what the numbers were.



Personally, I made mine featureless so I didn't have to register them.



And to the OP, sorry to hear about this but thanks for the heads up.


Maybe I’m not understanding what exactly they are saying he did illegally? The purchase of it was done wrong? Or a separate “registration” of it was the issue??
The other aspect maybe I mis-expressed was the possession of it. Ignoring the BS laws Kalifornia has established (no loaning/notifying anyone if its sold), suppose he had property outside of Kalifornia and stored the weapon there? Would they incarcerate him until he produced the firearm? Could they? Would they notify the claimed state and have them execute a search warrant on that property?
This seems very big brother, Fahrenheit 454-ish.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulKersey View Post
Personally, I think your next plan of action should be one of wisdom and common sense. I speak from experience (10x more $ involved) when I say do yourself a favor and leave it alone. Consider yourself fortunate to have your family safe, intact , you’ll be with them tonight and your home is not looking like WACO. You haven’t enough money to hire lawyers to fight the govt. Their visit to your door proves that you’re on their radar. If you go poking an angry, rabid dog (fed govt.) in the ass with a sharp stick, you won’t win the battle or like the result. If you become an irritation to them, you might find the next time you try to buy a firearm, you can’t pass a background check.....ever again. I completely sympathize with you, but choose your battles wisely and live to fight another day. If this incident is the worst thing that happens to you in your lifetime....you’ve got it made.


I’m not saying your advice is wrong. From a realistic perspective it’s probably very good advice.
But SHAME!
Shame on US for allowing our government to be allowed to act in such tyrannical ways and do nothing but accept it and “leave it alone”.
Doing nothing will simply allow them to have gotten away with yet one more in a massive number of infringements. They will continue to expand as long as nobody pushes back.
I see wisdom in you saying “don’t poke the rabid dog”. It WILL bite. We know they will bite and will use every tooth in their mouth to kill you. They will tear you to shreds and then **** on the remains. After they let you suffer a period of being infected.
But rabid dogs in society require those willingly to stop it. They often risk themselves to put a stop to the out of control creature.
If this OP can not petition his government to have his property returned which was Stolen under the guise of failing to follow their rules (which he seems to have followed!), then we are a lost nation. We may as well all hand in our firearms and tell the government we wish to be labeled as slaves.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:08 PM
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I would file a theft report with the local police ASAP. Get the rifle listed as being stolen in LEADS/NCIC police computer systems. Make those "agents" account for their conduct one way or another if you're legal and can prove it, there should be a group out there that will help you make your point and either get your rifle back or restitution for it.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:15 PM
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I got the impression that it was state agents not federal (ATFE) agents it was the California paperwork that was rejected.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Herd Sniper View Post
I would file a theft report with the local police ASAP. Get the rifle listed as being stolen in LEADS/NCIC police computer systems. Make those "agents" account for their conduct one way or another if you're legal and can prove it, there should be a group out there that will help you make your point and either get your rifle back or restitution for it.


I’d consult a lawyer before trying that one. Too easy to get hemmed up for filing a false report.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:32 PM
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Thanks for sharing.Sharing this up at CalFudds.net, er I mean Calguns.net would be great so you can let them see that this IS happening to normal folks.

Please contact a lawyer. Even if you don't want to take it up against the State at least get a consultation with a knowledgeable attorney. I see you have made other posts on SB regarding your handguns. Since this was such easy pickins for them they might use this to come after those too.

Good luck.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:34 PM
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As a former LEO and being pretty well-versed in this kind of thing... I really dont know what to say... my mind is running in circles.
1. Regarding the legality. What is the statute? What is the verbage of the regulation. Usually if it isnt caught and corrected in a stated period of time it falls into a grey area. Possession is 9/10ths and it is one them to PROVE their statements. That's going to require an order signed by a judge.

2. No way they could enter based on that. No way... warrant or exigent circumstances and a warrant would NEVER be issued for that!

3. With the constitutionality of Californias law in question I wouldn't cooperate with ****.

4. I would normally say hire a lawyer... but not in that place. California will be ground zero for the coming disarmament.

5. I say this as a LEO with 10 years dealing with this anti-second amendment movement. Never cooperate. Never let them in. Never speak to them. Nothing. If you are at that point they have made their decision a f believe they have what they need. Use your rights.. they will ask you to freely forego your rights... that's what Miranda is...

6. I cant even tell you how much this horrifies me.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
I'm going to ask the OP to prove this happened. Not being disrespectful, just expect more than a story told in a few posts.
"Yes" Virgina, there is a SATAN CLAUS.....

https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releas...ersons-program

From the California DOJ

This report for 2018 analyzes historical information such as APPS caseload and workflow since July 2013, including an examination of the total number of persons in APPS over time, paired with examinations of the removal of individuals. Some of the key highlights from the report include:

The task of addressing the original backlog of 20,721 cases neared completion. The remaining 538 active cases are under investigation.
In 2018, we set an annual record of 10,681 individuals were removed from the APPS list.

Agents seized a total of 2,290 firearms in APPS enforcement actions.
We averaged 50 filled agent positions working in six teams dedicated to the search and seizure of firearms from prohibited persons spanning California’s 58 counties.

In just over 10 years, the number of known firearm owners in California has more than doubled, going from 927,686 in 2008 to 2,516,836 as of January 1, 2019. Since 2013, over 56,000 armed and prohibited persons have been added to APPS, while over 53,000 armed and prohibited persons have been removed.

Everyday, CA DOJ agents face numerous APPS challenges, such as a growing caseload, seizing firearms from uncooperative individuals, locating current addresses, obtaining search warrants, and locating the particular firearm registered in the database. In 2018, CA DOJ agents made approximately 22,119 contacts with individuals in their efforts to remove firearms from the hands of prohibited persons.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:48 PM
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As for considering yourself lucky and "you cant afford the fight the Government". I've done it. I sued my Agency, I sued the city, I had an entire Dept terminated. You want to MAKE SURE this action continues... then do nothing.
I recently sued a massive Insurance Company after a Budweiser truck committed a hit and run on my 100k Z06 Corvette in front of the Police Station in front of 2 detectives!! It was over diminished value. I did the entire thing Pro Se. Put together the case, case for punitive damages, filed complaints against appraiser and adjuster for intentional deception and unethical practices. They will both lose their licensure.. and put together the PC for criminal charges...
Just filed a couple weeks ago. They are now offering me TEN TIMES their "final offer". I'm not taking it though... because money doesnt buy you out of misconduct.
There's nothing you can do now.. not in California... but people have the wrong idea about fighting big business and Govt. It is our DUTY.. and if I'm being forthcoming... it is also highly profitable. I bought that Z06, along with my Duramax, and my Florida home in cash... from my settlement with the City and Dept. I then went back to school... on their dime... and got 2 graduate degrees. I now make 2.5 times what I did in LE working 50 hours a week... in a straight 40 hour work week.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauser6863 View Post
"Yes" Virgina, there is a SATAN CLAUS.....

https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releas...ersons-program

From the California DOJ

This report for 2018 analyzes historical information such as APPS caseload and workflow since July 2013, including an examination of the total number of persons in APPS over time, paired with examinations of the removal of individuals. Some of the key highlights from the report include:

The task of addressing the original backlog of 20,721 cases neared completion. The remaining 538 active cases are under investigation.
In 2018, we set an annual record of 10,681 individuals were removed from the APPS list.

Agents seized a total of 2,290 firearms in APPS enforcement actions.
We averaged 50 filled agent positions working in six teams dedicated to the search and seizure of firearms from prohibited persons spanning California’s 58 counties.

In just over 10 years, the number of known firearm owners in California has more than doubled, going from 927,686 in 2008 to 2,516,836 as of January 1, 2019. Since 2013, over 56,000 armed and prohibited persons have been added to APPS, while over 53,000 armed and prohibited persons have been removed.

Everyday, CA DOJ agents face numerous APPS challenges, such as a growing caseload, seizing firearms from uncooperative individuals, locating current addresses, obtaining search warrants, and locating the particular firearm registered in the database. In 2018, CA DOJ agents made approximately 22,119 contacts with individuals in their efforts to remove firearms from the hands of prohibited persons.
I have no doubt, if this is the case, that DOJ are using clerical errors on registrations as a way to pad their numbers to show progress to their Sacramento handlers. It is the lowest hanging fruit in terms of safety and expediency.

****ing disgusting.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Maybe I’m not understanding what exactly they are saying he did illegally? The purchase of it was done wrong? Or a separate “registration” of it was the issue??
The other aspect maybe I mis-expressed was the possession of it. Ignoring the BS laws Kalifornia has established (no loaning/notifying anyone if its sold), suppose he had property outside of Kalifornia and stored the weapon there? Would they incarcerate him until he produced the firearm? Could they? Would they notify the claimed state and have them execute a search warrant on that property?
This seems very big brother, Fahrenheit 454-ish.
I am just as confused as you are, it seems he did everything he was supposed to do, except for some mistake in the paperwork.

I chose not to register and just make mine legal instead because of the last registration mess. People that registered their Tec9's could legally have them but only in their own homes? What a mess.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:30 PM
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I am just as confused as you are, it seems he did everything he was supposed to do, except for some mistake in the paperwork.



I chose not to register and just make mine legal instead because of the last registration mess. People that registered their Tec9's could legally have them but only in their own homes? What a mess.


It is confusing...I wish the OP would offer more explanation. Would it not stand to reason that a clerical error should not result in ones property being confiscated? If the clerical error were on the part (or failure resulting from) the government's agent/website/etc, it seems logical a solid ground for a fight. If the error were the OPs... I'd guess he's screwed but it seems a visit to a lawyer for a consult would clarify it.
The idea that a government has moved beyond infrimgment of firearms to widespread confiscation is inconceivable. That they can show up to an unSUSPECTingcitizens home and demand the weapon be turned over... What are we become...
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by tedlovesjeeps71 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCalHippie View Post
I am just as confused as you are, it seems he did everything he was supposed to do, except for some mistake in the paperwork.



I chose not to register and just make mine legal instead because of the last registration mess. People that registered their Tec9's could legally have them but only in their own homes? What a mess.


It is confusing...I wish the OP would offer more explanation. Would it not stand to reason that a clerical error should not result in ones property being confiscated? If the clerical error were on the part (or failure resulting from) the government's agent/website/etc, it seems logical a solid ground for a fight. If the error were the OPs... I'd guess he's screwed but it seems a visit to a lawyer for a consult would clarify it.
The idea that a government has moved beyond infrimgment of firearms to widespread confiscation is inconceivable. That they can show up to an unSUSPECTingcitizens home and demand the weapon be turned over... What are we become...
The agent told me my application was not completed, making it void. Even though some how I received a confirmation email and a receipt for fees paid.

He could not directly tell me what was incorrect, just that it wasn’t completed. He could not answer why I had a confirmation email and receipt for fees.

I was dumbfounded and did not think fast enough on my feet.

I
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatpat View Post
The agent told me my application was not completed, making it void. Even though some how I received a confirmation email and a receipt for fees paid.

He could not directly tell me what was incorrect, just that it wasn’t completed. He could not answer why I had a confirmation email and receipt for fees.

I was dumbfounded and did not think fast enough on my feet.

I
`

Did you or someone in your family record it? That would be HUGE if you did. Get it on UGEtube or gunstreamer as YT would probably ban it. I suspect a video like that would go viral in no time & you'd have lawyers knocking each other over to represent you pro bono.

.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:27 PM
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Just filed a couple weeks ago. They are now offering me TEN TIMES their "final offer". I'm not taking it though... because money doesnt buy you out of misconduct.
Quote:
..... it is also highly profitable. I bought that Z06, along with my Duramax, and my Florida home in cash... from my settlement with the City and Dept. I then went back to school... on their dime... and got 2 graduate degrees. I now make 2.5 times what I did in LE working 50 hours a week... in a straight 40 hour work week.
Your story is confusing. You say you just recently filed the suit. You say you’re not going to accept their offer. Then you say their money “bought that Z06”. How did the settlement money buy the Corvette before the Corvette was in the accident? Corvette, Truck and house and your continued education to obtain 2 degrees...... all paid for with cash you refuse to accept? As you said about their settlement offer, “I'm not taking it though... because money doesnt buy you out of misconduct.”.

Sounds like you received a minimum settlement payment of $500k, all because an insurance adjuster undervalued your car. If you have a lawyer who required 1/3, make that a settlement of $750k. ( which you say you won’t accept).

Please forgive me for doubting your story. It just sounds like bs.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:28 PM
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`



Did you or someone in your family record it? That would be HUGE if you did. Get it on UGEtube or gunstreamer as YT would probably ban it. I suspect a video like that would go viral in no time & you'd have lawyers knocking each other over to represent you pro bono.



.


That was my same thought! Probably didn't but that would have been YUGE!
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