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Old 10-17-2019, 09:39 AM
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WOW! Crickets!
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:09 PM
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WOW! Crickets!
In this case Crickets are good. On any other forum I am on this thread would have been shut down several pages back and a few members banned or at least given some stern warnings.

I wish we could go back to talking about the original topic. The 9mm vs 40 cal. I don't own a 40 anymore but I sure want another one. I found a good deal n a S&W M&P 2.0 NIB for $300.00. I am tempted.
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Old 10-17-2019, 05:45 PM
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In this case Crickets are good. On any other forum I am on this thread would have been shut down several pages back and a few members banned or at least given some stern warnings.

I wish we could go back to talking about the original topic. The 9mm vs 40 cal. I don't own a 40 anymore but I sure want another one. I found a good deal n a S&W M&P 2.0 NIB for $300.00. I am tempted.
Unless you already own a lot .40sw ammo I wouldnt. No new .40s are coming out and fewer and fewer companies are making them. As time progresses the cost of ammo will climb. Since there is no added benefit to the round over 9mm it really doesnt justify the ammo costs.

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Old 10-18-2019, 09:12 AM
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Unless you already own a lot .40sw ammo I wouldnt. No new .40s are coming out and fewer and fewer companies are making them. As time progresses the cost of ammo will climb. Since there is no added benefit to the round over 9mm it really doesnt justify the ammo costs.

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This. 40 is no better or worse than 9mm. It's a fine caliber. Right now, there is a ton of ammo, and guns, available, as departments transition away from it. That surplus translates to awesome prices...right now. When that surplus dries up, and the new "normal" production cycle is what you have to select from, the prices of everything 40 will increase.

I still have an excellent stash of 40. I'm not getting rid of it. But, I'm not buying any more. If I could afford to buy 40-50 pallets of 40 right now - enough to assure my shooting future, and those of my kids/grandkids, I'd be all over it. But unless that goal could be met, longterm, 9mm is still a better investment.
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:27 PM
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This. 40 is no better or worse than 9mm. It's a fine caliber. Right now, there is a ton of ammo, and guns, available, as departments transition away from it. That surplus translates to awesome prices...right now. When that surplus dries up, and the new "normal" production cycle is what you have to select from, the prices of everything 40 will increase.

I still have an excellent stash of 40. I'm not getting rid of it. But, I'm not buying any more. If I could afford to buy 40-50 pallets of 40 right now - enough to assure my shooting future, and those of my kids/grandkids, I'd be all over it. But unless that goal could be met, longterm, 9mm is still a better investment.
The 40 cal is a handloaders dream. I've got 12,000 rds of once fired brass, thanks to local Cops practicing on a public range. Now they are selling off used police guns at bargin prices, so I'vs also got a couple spare 40 cal pistols. Love you Cops.

Shooting a lot is the only way to becoming real proficient at with a major power caliber, so unless your boss pays for your practice ammo, reloading is the key. Save your brass and stack up on molly coated cast 180g LFN bullets. I can load 500 rounds in a couple hours for $70.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:01 PM
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The 40 cal is a handloaders dream. I've got 12,000 rds of once fired brass, thanks to local Cops practicing on a public range. Now they are selling off used police guns at bargin prices, so I'vs also got a couple spare 40 cal pistols. Love you Cops.

Shooting a lot is the only way to becoming real proficient at with a major power caliber, so unless your boss pays for your practice ammo, reloading is the key. Save your brass and stack up on molly coated cast 180g LFN bullets. I can load 500 rounds in a couple hours for $70.
Logical and excellent thinking.

I have no doubt you and your .40 would be great to "ride the river with".
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:40 PM
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I think what finally sold me on the 9mm, and took 30+ years to do that, was the FBI report on actual shootings where round count to achieve critical shot placement counted far more than single shot effectivity. Toss in that my wife never did find all her other automatics fun to shoot due to tight slides or hard recoil, and the 9mm won out.

I now have a Sig P320 with 21 round magazines. Toss in 124gr Speer Gold Dots at 1230fps, and it makes for effective firepower.

For the .40 S&W, I loaded 155gr Speer Gold Dots at 1230fps, so I am only losing 30gr of bullet mass by moving to the 9mm, but going from 10 rounds in the .40 S&M to 21 rounds in the 9mm. As the FBI shooting report demonstrated, that 30gr of bullet mass isn't going to make any difference.
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Old 10-19-2019, 02:20 PM
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I have a HK USP .40, the .40 all other 40's wish they were. The USP was actually designed around the .40.
With that said, it has the 357Sig barrel in it. So a little gas thrown on the fire.

For me, I shoot the 9's because no ones gets into a firefight/shootout and says they wish they had less bites of the apple aka less ammo.

Go look at some of the recent LEO shoots. How many on target, compared to how many shot? This is why I typically just nod my head at LEO's when they talk about how to shoot. Same can be said for many in the military.
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:37 PM
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I have a HK USP .40, the .40 all other 40's wish they were. The USP was actually designed around the .40.
With that said, it has the 357Sig barrel in it. So a little gas thrown on the fire.

For me, I shoot the 9's because no ones gets into a firefight/shootout and says they wish they had less bites of the apple aka less ammo.

Go look at some of the recent LEO shoots. How many on target, compared to how many shot? This is why I typically just nod my head at LEO's when they talk about how to shoot. Same can be said for many in the military.
Yeah, and they nod right back at anyone that's never been in a real gunfight......


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Old 10-19-2019, 04:01 PM
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I have a HK USP .40, the .40 all other 40's wish they were. The USP was actually designed around the .40.
With that said, it has the 357Sig barrel in it. So a little gas thrown on the fire.

I had one, and traded it after 20 years and barely 1000 rounds fired. Nice gun, but didn't do anything for me. Jammed when shooting steel ammo, and wasn't that comfortable to hold in the least. If I want a 40, I've got my 96G that fits like a mold from my hand.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:05 PM
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Logical and excellent thinking.

I have no doubt you and your .40 would be great to "ride the river with".
Exactly the reason to have a .40 S&W cylinder custom made to fit your single-action .38-40 revolver! Now I need to see if any of the .40 or 10mm full-moon clips made for DA revolvers have the same charge hole spacing as a 1920 Colt New Service and I'll have .40 S&W cylinder made for one of those too!

In my crystal ball I can see a .40 S&W lever action cowboy rifle project coming... Only takes money.
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:45 PM
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In my crystal ball I can see a .40 S&W lever action cowboy rifle project coming... Only takes money.
Here you go.....

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...cision-1040ss/
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Old 10-20-2019, 02:29 PM
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Now that's a neat idea.
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Old 10-20-2019, 04:23 PM
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Now that's a neat idea.
It it wasn't for the silly NFA, they would probably selling a lot of those in 11" or 12" "Trapper" versions. Now that would be really nifty.

I may have to SBR a pistol caliber lever one of these days.
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Old 10-20-2019, 10:17 PM
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The overwhelming majority of LEO's have never fired their service weapon, aside from qualifying. According to the WaPo a very anti gun/ anti LEO rag. 994 police shootings in 2015. There are 18,000 LEO agencies in the country, employing almost 500K LEO's. That is a rate of .00198 shootings per officer, but you know, every officer has their story.

80% of all military personnel have never fired a round in combat and that is because there has not been more than 20% of our military that is combat operational...ever, but you know, every military person, has their story.

This is me nodding my head.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:35 AM
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The overwhelming majority of LEO's have never fired their service weapon, aside from qualifying. According to the WaPo a very anti gun/ anti LEO rag. 994 police shootings in 2015. There are 18,000 LEO agencies in the country, employing almost 500K LEO's. That is a rate of .00198 shootings per officer, but you know, every officer has their story.

80% of all military personnel have never fired a round in combat and that is because there has not been more than 20% of our military that is combat operational...ever, but you know, every military person, has their story.

This is me nodding my head.
Your awesomeness is apparent.

Obviously you would do better than any of that tiny percentage of military and LE personnel that get in gunfights.

Thanks for that head nod, Champ.....


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Old 10-21-2019, 06:52 AM
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The overwhelming majority of LEO's have never fired their service weapon, aside from qualifying. According to the WaPo a very anti gun/ anti LEO rag. 994 police shootings in 2015. There are 18,000 LEO agencies in the country, employing almost 500K LEO's. That is a rate of .00198 shootings per officer, but you know, every officer has their story.

80% of all military personnel have never fired a round in combat and that is because there has not been more than 20% of our military that is combat operational...ever, but you know, every military person, has their story.

This is me nodding my head.
Not every one of those officers are in positions where they are likely to use their weapons. Peel out almost all detectives, outside of Narcotics, and some fairly specialized units. Peel out Admin and Training. Peel out entire agencies - when was the last time an IRS or NOAA agent shot anyone? School police, outside of the freakish few with school shootings, are unlikely to shoot anyone...

According to one study, 87% of US police departments have less than 25 officers. Not saying small departments aren't dangerous (they have dangers large departments do not), but the likelihood of an officer in a small town getting into a gunfight is far smaller than an officeron a large department. On large departments, assigned areas and shifts make a huge difference. All of my shootings occurred while working late shift on a beat where every dept LOD death in the last 40 years had occurred. Not many dudes working that area for 5+ years didn't have at least one OIS. Contrast that to Day Shift in our ritzy areas, and they haven't had a shooting in decades.

Finally, there was a study years ago that showed that once an officer was involved in one shooting, they were far more likely to be involved in subsequent shootings.

Sure, most cops never get into a shooting. Then again, I personally know dozens that have...
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Old 10-24-2019, 04:10 PM
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I am throwing a vote in for the Sig P320, you can buy kits for 9MM, 40 and I think a 380. It's pretty awesome and the trigger pull is phenomenal!
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:14 PM
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Not every one of those officers are in positions where they are likely to use their weapons. Peel out almost all detectives, outside of Narcotics, and some fairly specialized units. Peel out Admin and Training. Peel out entire agencies - when was the last time an IRS or NOAA agent shot anyone? School police, outside of the freakish few with school shootings, are unlikely to shoot anyone...



According to one study, 87% of US police departments have less than 25 officers. Not saying small departments aren't dangerous (they have dangers large departments do not), but the likelihood of an officer in a small town getting into a gunfight is far smaller than an officeron a large department. On large departments, assigned areas and shifts make a huge difference. All of my shootings occurred while working late shift on a beat where every dept LOD death in the last 40 years had occurred. Not many dudes working that area for 5+ years didn't have at least one OIS. Contrast that to Day Shift in our ritzy areas, and they haven't had a shooting in decades.



Finally, there was a study years ago that showed that once an officer was involved in one shooting, they were far more likely to be involved in subsequent shootings.



Sure, most cops never get into a shooting. Then again, I personally know dozens that have...
Which is exactly why us vets can't stand it when cops act like badasses.

I'm well aware 9/10 I talk to fall into the region of not much action, in the distribution of data. The other 1/10 I consider a peer.

Just like walking out of the DMV with your DL doesn't make you a nascar driver, minimal training and zero field experience doesn't make you a superhero. So spare me the baseless ego and attitude and leave me alone.

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Old 10-24-2019, 11:13 PM
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Which is exactly why us vets can't stand it when cops act like badasses.

I'm well aware 9/10 I talk to fall into the region of not much action, in the distribution of data. The other 1/10 I consider a peer.

Just like walking out of the DMV with your DL doesn't make you a nascar driver, minimal training and zero field experience doesn't make you a superhero. So spare me the baseless ego and attitude and leave me alone.

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The same goes just as strongly for military folks, even Combat Arms. A blue arm cord ain't proof of anything.
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