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Old 09-07-2018, 05:21 PM
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I've been looking at getting a .454 for a while and had been considering the Ruger Toklat. In my reading I stumbled across the Taurus Raging Judge in .454/.410. I really liked the idea of being able to shoot .410 shotshells out of a pistol. I know the quality would probably not be the same as the ruger, but the raging judge seems to have a good rep. Plus it's supposedly able to handle hot loads. For pistol rounds, I would mainly just be shooting some hot .45 colt loads so it should be able to handle them. My biggest question is the barrel length. Is there any advantage with the 6 inch or 3 inch barrels? I like that the 3 inch is more compact, but the 6 would give more velocity and accuracy. Would the longer barrel make the .410 shot spread faster? Let me know what you all think. I'd most likely carry it in a chest rig.
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:25 PM
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I have the regular Judge. .410/.45LC. It's a fun gun. The .410 isn't really effective at anything. Barrel is too short to get any real velocity. Pattern spread is about 1" for every foot of distance so the spread is less than I had expected.

I like my Judge but it's not especially useful - just fun.
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Old 09-07-2018, 10:00 PM
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I have the regular Judge. .410/.45LC. It's a fun gun. The .410 isn't really effective at anything. Barrel is too short to get any real velocity. Pattern spread is about 1" for every foot of distance so the spread is less than I had expected.

I like my Judge but it's not especially useful - just fun.
What makes me like the raging judge is that it's a combo gun. You can shoot so many different things out of it. Maybe the 6 inch barrel would give more velocity to the shotshells? I would have thought it would have made them spread faster though since they go in the rifling.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:09 AM
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Umm, I know several people that own the Judge and/or Governor. None of them really find them useful.

If you want a .454 get one of the 4 different Ruger offerings (Alaskan, Super Redhawk, Bisley Blackhawk, or Toklat) or save up for the Freedom Arms.

IF it is mainly for 45 Colt (which works for me) and you want versatility then get the Redhawk 45 Colt/45 acp version.

Just my .02!
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:16 AM
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By the way, I have the Ruger Bisley Blackhawk convertible (45 Colt, 45 Acp cylinders). I love it. I also have the standard Ruger Redhawk 45 Colt, it is not the convertible. I love them both.

The only reason I have not purchased the Redhawk that uses the 45 acp moon clips is the fact I do not know if there are issues with high pressure 45 Colt loads causing a bulge in the case were there is a slight gap at the base where the spacing for the moon clip is cut in. I do not how to explain it better than that, but my GUESS would be when you are shooting really heavy handloads or hot ammo from the likes of Buffalo Bore there MIGHT be a chance it cause a bulge thus screwing up the case for reloading. I could be completely off base, but I am not sure. Maybe someone in the know will chime in with the answer.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:18 AM
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I sure like my Governor. The worst part is the cost of .45 Colt unless you reload. Using the .45 acp clip is a pain except as a speed loader. That is my backup ammo regardless of where my Governor is.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:44 AM
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I sure like my Governor. The worst part is the cost of .45 Colt unless you reload. Using the .45 acp clip is a pain except as a speed loader. That is my backup ammo regardless of where my Governor is.
I picked up 500rds of the 200gr 45 Colt from here 6 months ago
https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pisto...long-colt-ammo

Not a bad price compared to what I see on the shelf.
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:51 AM
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I picked up 500rds of the 200gr 45 Colt from here 6 months ago
https://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pisto...long-colt-ammo

Not a bad price compared to what I see on the shelf.
That is a great price. I have seen retail twice that.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:53 PM
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As I grow older, I am less and less impressed by all of the gun hype that I see in the press/media, etc. Therefore I see very little to zero use, need, utility for these giant revolvers capable of firing huge cartridges.

The shot shell revolvers are a solution to a non-existent problem. These have zero real world use, except in fantasy land scenarios. They are big, heavy and many are not built very well and can't handle prolonged firing of heavy loads, etc.

Let me do you a solid, follow my advice and you will be a happy man.

Purchase a Ruger Redhawk (Not the Super Redhawk) in 45 Colt/45 ACP. This revolver is a very high quality and will render yeoman service to your grandchildren and their children.

The Redhawk is smaller and lighter (44 oz vs 60 oz for the Raging Judge) than the other big revolvers and its easier to carry daily with its 4" barrel. If you plan to carry it in the woods, etc. get a quality chest holster as this will keep the gun ready, but out of the way when sitting on vehicle, backpacking, fishing and going to the outhouse.

If you're planning on using 45 ACP in the gun buy a moon clip loader/un-loader, as life is much easier if you have the right tools. For heavy loads, change the wood grips out for a quality rubber type. Having a gunsmith install a lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip and buying and using a lanyard is also a good idea. Dropping the gun in the river, having a boat tip over, etc. could ruin what's left of your life. That little strong cord hooked to the bottom of the gun might be the best investment you ever make?

The Ruger is strong and can handle heavy 45 Colt loads and you can elect to shoot cheaper 45 ACP when you want to do so. Snake Shot is available in 45 Colt and will take care of snakes and small critters and should not be used as mini-shotgun for anything else.

"But I need the 454 for Grizzly Bears", no you don't. What you need is ammunition designed to stay together and drive deep into game. Big heavy flat nosed hard cast solids are what you want and they work great in 45 Colt. You should carry Bear Spray too, as it may be a better option in some cases and also works on annoying humans too.

If you need a bigger gun than a modern 45 Colt, buy a shotgun or a rifle or an armored vehicle. Want a 410 shotgun, then buy one, don't drink the revolver/shotgun Koolaid.

You're Welcome
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:31 PM
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As I grow older, I am less and less impressed by all of the gun hype that I see in the press/media, etc. Therefore I see very little to zero use, need, utility for these giant revolvers capable of firing huge cartridges.

The shot shell revolvers are a solution to a non-existent problem. These have zero real world use, except in fantasy land scenarios. They are big, heavy and many are not built very well and can't handle prolonged firing of heavy loads, etc.

Let me do you a solid, follow my advice and you will be a happy man.

Purchase a Ruger Redhawk (Not the Super Redhawk) in 45 Colt/45 ACP. This revolver is a very high quality and will render yeoman service to your grandchildren and their children.

The Redhawk is smaller and lighter (44 oz vs 60 oz for the Raging Judge) than the other big revolvers and its easier to carry daily with its 4" barrel. If you plan to carry it in the woods, etc. get a quality chest holster as this will keep the gun ready, but out of the way when sitting on vehicle, backpacking, fishing and going to the outhouse.

If you're planning on using 45 ACP in the gun buy a moon clip loader/un-loader, as life is much easier if you have the right tools. For heavy loads, change the wood grips out for a quality rubber type. Having a gunsmith install a lanyard loop at the bottom of the grip and buying and using a lanyard is also a good idea. Dropping the gun in the river, having a boat tip over, etc. could ruin what's left of your life. That little strong cord hooked to the bottom of the gun might be the best investment you ever make?

The Ruger is strong and can handle heavy 45 Colt loads and you can elect to shoot cheaper 45 ACP when you want to do so. Snake Shot is available in 45 Colt and will take care of snakes and small critters and should not be used as mini-shotgun for anything else.

"But I need the 454 for Grizzly Bears", no you don't. What you need is ammunition designed to stay together and drive deep into game. Big heavy flat nosed hard cast solids are what you want and they work great in 45 Colt. You should carry Bear Spray too, as it may be a better option in some cases and also works on annoying humans too.

If you need a bigger gun than a modern 45 Colt, buy a shotgun or a rifle or an armored vehicle. Want a 410 shotgun, then buy one, don't drink the revolver/shotgun Koolaid.

You're Welcome
I agree the .410 feature is mainly for fun. The whole reason I was looking at the Raging Judge was the fact that it was chambered in .454 (allowing me to shoot that and .45 colt) and I figured the .410 shotshells could be fun. I see it as something I could use to shoot squirrels, rabbits or snakes when I'm working out on my tractor or something. I don't own anything in .45 acp.
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:04 PM
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I agree the .410 feature is mainly for fun. The whole reason I was looking at the Raging Judge was the fact that it was chambered in .454 (allowing me to shoot that and .45 colt) and I figured the .410 shotshells could be fun. I see it as something I could use to shoot squirrels, rabbits or snakes when I'm working out on my tractor or something. I don't own anything in .45 acp.
I disagree. A Governor will fill a doorway with .410 shot with zero next room penetration. It may not result in a kill shot but no one is going to keep coming. Plus the second shot need not be a .410 with plenty of time for the kill shot.

So the .410 option permits a good bit of latitude especially when it comes to nightstand strategy.
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:07 PM
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I disagree. A Governor will fill a doorway with .410 shot with zero next room penetration. It may not result in a kill shot but no one is going to keep coming. Plus the second shot need not be a .410 with plenty of time for the kill shot.

So the .410 option permits a good bit of latitude especially when it comes to nightstand strategy.
Do you know how the barrel length affects shotshell spread? I can't seem to find any comparison. I would think the increased velocity from the 6 inch barrel would cause smaller shot to spread more.
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Old 09-08-2018, 08:25 PM
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I heard that the purpose of the Judge's 410 was, (for instance), you are fixing barbed wire fences on your property and you see a snake close by. Sure the spread is too wide for duck hunting. But isn't it ideal for a snake that is almost in range to bite you?

It's also ideal for home defense. Some one breaks into your house, you want a subsonic round, or shell, that can stop them without the sound breaking your eardrum.

It's a close range pistol that is too large to conceal. As such the uses are limited but they are there.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:48 PM
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Do you know how the barrel length affects shotshell spread? I can't seem to find any comparison. I would think the increased velocity from the 6 inch barrel would cause smaller shot to spread more.
Not exactly I measured my bed to doorways target points and set up at the range. If my point of aim is center mass shot will fill the width of the doorway with half that above and below a center mass aim. I expect I would be shooting from a lower position than a standing man so shot will pretty well populate the head and face area.

I will not actually be aiming since the Governor as a auto squeeze crimson trace. So I will put dot on center mass and fire. Since we have a home alarm system I do not expect it should come to this but I should have adequate warning.

If you see a flaw in my thinking please advise.
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:16 PM
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Not exactly I measured my bed to doorways target points and set up at the range. If my point of aim is center mass shot will fill the width of the doorway with half that above and below a center mass aim. I expect I would be shooting from a lower position than a standing man so shot will pretty well populate the head and face area.

I will not actually be aiming since the Governor as a auto squeeze crimson trace. So I will put dot on center mass and fire. Since we have a home alarm system I do not expect it should come to this but I should have adequate warning.

If you see a flaw in my thinking please advise.
Seems logical to me. I was just thinking that the longer barrel would suit my needs better. It just makes for a big ol hand cannon. I'm not sure if it would spread more or not. Since the shot gets in the riflings (when using smaller shot) I would think it would spread more with the increased velocity of the 6 inch barrel. Not sure though.
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Old 09-08-2018, 10:18 PM
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It's also ideal for home defense.
Seriously?

You guys really need to do some research.

This is always the starting point that I point people to:

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf

If you think a .410 is an ideal home defense weapon this is going to rock your world.

After that I will tell you about the time I was shot with a 9mm +P hollowpoint...and how I didn't even feel it. It only stopped me because it shattered my femur and when I tried to take a step my leg bent backwards in the wrong place and I fell over.

You have no idea what it takes to stop someone. Its very very hard. Much harder than killing them.

Read the FBI article. Read it twice if you need to.

And then make better choices.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Seriously?

You guys really need to do some research.

This is always the starting point that I point people to:

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf

If you think a .410 is an ideal home defense weapon this is going to rock your world.

After that I will tell you about the time I was shot with a 9mm +P hollowpoint...and how I didn't even feel it. It only stopped me because it shattered my femur and when I tried to take a step my leg bent backwards in the wrong place and I fell over.

You have no idea what it takes to stop someone. Its very very hard. Much harder than killing them.

Read the FBI article. Read it twice if you need to.

And then make better choices.
No. I should have been more specific in my wording.

I never said to rely on the weakest shell you can put in the judge.
But a 230 grain hollow point is nothing to sneeze at. Sure there are plenty of other rounds that hit harder.

But when I defend my home, (which is huge, and has many small rooms), I think about what my invader may have. Odds are good he has some kind of tool he will use as a club, like the crowbar he used to get in.I want to use my
off hand to protect my revolver and give me a second to shoot him.

I like a subsonic revolver because I want to keep my hearing. If I shoot a .357 inside my house without hearing protection I will seriously damage my hearing. But if you slow down a .357, 9mm, or other rounds to subsonic you neuter them to some extent. When someone breaks into my house, I wake up and have to identify where they are by sound.


If the home invader is in the same area my dogs are, I want a round that won't go through him to hit them.


But that's just me, go ahead and use the most powerful round you want, them make yourself deaf or use hearing protection.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Seriously?

You guys really need to do some research.

This is always the starting point that I point people to:

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf

If you think a .410 is an ideal home defense weapon this is going to rock your world.

After that I will tell you about the time I was shot with a 9mm +P hollowpoint...and how I didn't even feel it. It only stopped me because it shattered my femur and when I tried to take a step my leg bent backwards in the wrong place and I fell over.

You have no idea what it takes to stop someone. Its very very hard. Much harder than killing them.

Read the FBI article. Read it twice if you need to.

And then make better choices.
Here is the conclusion in YOUR link...



Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed."42, 43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet




It agrees with me. I say use a very large, bullet that will penetrate but not over penetrate. Remember, we are talking about from 15 feet on average if not less.

This large hollow point, will create a very large wound, which your article loves. But because of the relative low velocity of the huge bullet, it won't go out the other side with proper placement. Because this revolver is huge, but with a short barrel, it should be good for quick follow up shots, or to pistol wip your opponent if your inside the 21 foot radius that gives an advantage to some one with a knife.

If I have to shoot some one out in my yard, that's when I grab the 12 gauge.
But I live in a Blue state, and the chances of shooting some one in my yard without getting in trouble are very low. More likely that my dogs chew on them, they hurt my dogs, and I then hurt them.
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Old 09-09-2018, 08:54 AM
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I have a Govenor. Love it. Anyone who thinks that four #000 Buckshot balls at 750 fps is not adequate is an idiot. In ballistic gel they go 16" and with denim over gel 13 to 14"
Ballistically it is the same as get hit by Wild Bill four time at once, and his .36 caliber six shooters had zero problem in killing a man with one shot. So let's set that stupidity aside.
It also shoots .45 Colt and .45 ACP with moon clips. Very versatile.
I use #7 shot on snakes, and they dead real fast.
I carry it on my tractor with #7 for poisonous snakes and keep it loaded with Federal Personal Defense #000 Buckshot in the house. It patterns real good in distances one would need around the house. It is not a primary house gun, but one of several I have stashed. It really is my tractor gun more than anything. My primary house gun is a full size XD(M) .45 ACP.
As to the OP, I would not buy another Tarus. The only gun I would get in .454 Casull is a Ruger. In West Virgina I fail to see the Utility, but why not. In that power range I would just step up and get a S&W 460.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:08 AM
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For you all that think 410 is just for fun,I ask do you want hit with it at HD distance? The judge/gov is a good all purpose gun around the homestead. If expecting or looking for trouble yes, something else may be better.
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