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Old 06-06-2018, 09:12 PM
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@Fenrell...
Don't discount at least a basic understanding of room to room clearing proceedures even if it's your own domain. If you have a great hidey-hole in your room and detect others have entered your house, a couple things could happen.
They discover you, rush you, and following the firefight (provided you survive), you will eventually have to search your home. You won't likely know how many entered, how many survived, wounded playing possum, etc. At the point where you decide to leave your secure location you are now forced to clear your own home. Sounds easy but it isn't. It's a crap shoot at best even though you have an intimate knowledge of the layout. Room clearing without explosives is a very dangerous and butt puckering event. Chances are you won't want to use explosives if you have them since you'll be destroying your own home.


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Old 06-06-2018, 09:54 PM
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I have enough training to understand the scale of what I don't know...a few courses that included room clearing, urban street movements, etc. with simunitions/UTMs.

The first time we were leaving the room onto the street, the guy in front of me had about one second of inattention when the guy in front of him began moving...and then he ran up, putting a one-second gap between us just as we left the building. A one second gap is a lot when you're supposed to be in a stack. It was enough to get me killed leaving the doorway. There's no way to be current enough to eliminate one-second gaps unless this is what you do for a living, and you're constantly practicing with the team.

So basically, I learned enough to know how to stay out of the way of people who do this for a living.

Another thing that stuck with me was how easy it was for the folks shooting at us, because they were posted up in stable shooting positions (often with cover) while we were trying to get off the X...returning accurate fire while moving fast, under effective fire, isn't easy.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:04 PM
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During basic room clearing courses, they put good-guy/bad-guy targets in the rooms. You have to enter the room, assess the target, decide whether to engage, then act (shoot, move to the next target, etc). While you're doing this, the bad guy targets already have a gun pointed at you as you come through the door.


Room clearing is something I'd try to avoid, in SHTF or any other time. Especially solo.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:23 PM
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There is a reason why doors and windows are called fatal funnels.
......And bad guys inside waiting with weapons trained at those funnels are just one concern. Mantraps are only limited to imagination and the time it takes to construct them. Urban areas already supply the materials required for thier construction, and some are very easy and fast to make. ( example= A hole cut in the floor right inside of a door....on the second floor, or first floor with a basement.....and a piece of cardboard thrown over it.)

Happy go lucky bursts thru the door, crashes thru the cardboard and falls to his death. The guys on the other side didn't have to waste ammo, use explosives, or participate directly in the act.

Note: Leave that hole open , construct a " screen on the far side, and you have an improvised grenade sump...in case your enemies have access to grenades. The hole also acts as obstacle and forcing those who enter to bypass it and smack into the " real" death traps".

I won't even get started on stairwells

Sound like fun yet?





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Old 06-08-2018, 05:28 PM
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Knock knock mutha****ers... Any bad guys at home?


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Old 06-08-2018, 05:43 PM
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Knock knock mutha****ers... Any bad guys at home?


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They heard that coming from 8 blocks away, so I dought it.

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Old 06-08-2018, 05:46 PM
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They heard that coming from 8 blocks away, so I dought it.

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Lol... Probably. We weren't known for our stealth.


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Old 06-08-2018, 05:52 PM
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:02 PM
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Lol... Probably. We weren't known for our stealth.


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We weren't either when these were around......Lol.
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:03 PM
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This is a great thread.

I also think its a great counterpoint to the anti-prepper sentiment you see here sometimes, the people who say that bunkers, guns, food stockpiles etc are a waste because they will just be taken away from you.

Yes....some will, but with the high attrition rate of entry teams I don't think they will make it very far in disarmed and taking supplies.

I have no credentials but I've tried to apply what I have read about CQB work to build my house from the ground up to resist such attacks. I have multiple 'funnels' Super reenforced doors, no windows larger than 9" wide on the ground floor, (and those are just glass blocks) and firing ports in the floor that line up with the doorways so if the doors are forced I could fill the doorway with lead from a different floor than the door was on...which seems like it would have to be harder for an entry team to quickly deal with.
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
This is a great thread.

I also think its a great counterpoint to the anti-prepper sentiment you see here sometimes, the people who say that bunkers, guns, food stockpiles etc are a waste because they will just be taken away from you.

Yes....some will, but with the high attrition rate of entry teams I don't think they will make it very far in disarmed and taking supplies.

I have no credentials but I've tried to apply what I have read about CQB work to build my house from the ground up to resist such attacks. I have multiple 'funnels' Super reenforced doors, no windows larger than 9" wide on the ground floor, (and those are just glass blocks) and firing ports in the floor that line up with the doorways so if the doors are forced I could fill the doorway with lead from a different floor than the door was on...which seems like it would have to be harder for an entry team to quickly deal with.
Good ideas.

A cache program would be another suggestion.
Both of the rifles in pic below are " expendable. "



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Old 06-08-2018, 09:31 PM
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I took a class on it with some guys at work a few years ago. It was definitely eye opening and a little bit of a pucker factor knowing a guy I work with has his gun at his chest and he's stacked up behind me as we were preparing to move in and fire live rounds. Lots of practice went in on the dry runs but that still had me a little uneasy.

We each took turns being in one of the rooms during the practice runs with fake guns and flashlights to see both sides. Really made me want to practice clearing my house with my wife in tow so we'd at least be on the same page if we had to get across the house to the kiddos. Sadly she isn't up for all that...lol
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:15 PM
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YOU would be amazed at how a wet freshly waxed floor can break up a group of intruders.

I used to set up scenarios for our team activities in one of the houses the city had taken back and eventually slated for destruction.
People said I was ... devious.

How about trying to run up a set of steps after someone has pushed over a bunch of stacked newspapers.
Simple things that are not "dangerous" until deployed.

Before I was done I "killed" more team members than the plague.
and
BOY.. did they become paranoid.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:05 PM
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Some people need to gain perspective. If you think CQB would be dangerous consider the simple act of patroling your property, or even stepping outside to take a pee. Anyone with simple camouflage and really any weapon system from a bolt action deer rifle to a .22 handgun could change your world form a concealed position.

I'm not suggesting that CQB isn't dangerous only that everything is potentially dangerous, staying in your house and not patrolling your property could result in danger if people feel comfortable getting close. Making "friends" could be dangerous and the thing that does you in. Its all relative. It comes down to problem solving, that's it, and its all dangerous. The better you are at it the less danger there is, in some ways the goal is to create your own luck, although its competitive so in all scenarios you can do everything technically right and still get it.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
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Some people need to gain perspective. If you think CQB would be dangerous consider the simple act of patroling your property, or even stepping outside to take a pee. Anyone with simple camouflage and really any weapon system from a bolt action deer rifle to a .22 handgun could change your world form a concealed position.

I'm not suggesting that CQB isn't dangerous only that everything is potentially dangerous, staying in your house and not patrolling your property could result in danger if people feel comfortable getting close. Making "friends" could be dangerous and the thing that does you in. Its all relative. It comes down to problem solving, that's it, and its all dangerous. The better you are at it the less danger there is, in some ways the goal is to create your own luck, although its competitive so in all scenarios you can do everything technically right and still get it.
In the Balkan wars they learned the hard way that Individuals & small groups died and Larger more committed trained groups survived .
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:19 AM
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Some people need to gain perspective. If you think CQB would be dangerous consider the simple act of patroling your property, or even stepping outside to take a pee.
I think CQB, in particular the clearing of buildings, is the most dangerous activity anyone might have to do in SHTF. Patrolling your own land pales in comparison, though no activity will be truly safe.
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Old 06-11-2018, 12:37 AM
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I think CQB, in particular the clearing of buildings, is the most dangerous activity anyone might have to do in SHTF. Patrolling your own land pales in comparison, though no activity will be truly safe.


Ones own property can at least be somewhat "hardened" or modified to allow monitoring it a little less risky. A slew of cameras and warning systems could be monitored from a safe location and allow one to monitor activity and develop a plan of attack.
Clearing buildings sucks as does creeping through Indian country. When anyone you encounter or anywhere you go could lead to a firefight and possible injury or death, it will probably weed out those who don't get it, become complacent, or risk it too often.


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Old 06-11-2018, 07:32 AM
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I think CQB, in particular the clearing of buildings, is the most dangerous activity anyone might have to do in SHTF. Patrolling your own land pales in comparison, though no activity will be truly safe.
It doesn't work that way in reality, you can't know what is more dangerous, or which task is safer. Its all dependent upon the threat. For instance when I worked undercover people thought it was more dangerous than patrol, but what is safer not wearing a uniform and buying drugs undercover or going to a restaurant in uniform to eat? You can't know the answer to that because both are potentially dangerous, and both are completely safe until something happens.

A better example would be that I went to an all Muslim country in Africa last year to train some people and our friends and family thought I was crazy for going and taking my wife. But other than a minor security incident nothing happened over there. However when I take the wife and kids on a family vacation and we stop a night in Vegas we all get shot at and are stuck in the middle of the Vegas shooting. So the reality is you don't know where the threat will appear, you just live your life and do what needs to be done or what you believe is the right thing to do and be as prepared as possible to deal with threats.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:36 AM
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Ones own property can at least be somewhat "hardened" or modified to allow monitoring it a little less risky. A slew of cameras and warning systems could be monitored from a safe location and allow one to monitor activity and develop a plan of attack.
Clearing buildings sucks as does creeping through Indian country. When anyone you encounter or anywhere you go could lead to a firefight and possible injury or death, it will probably weed out those who don't get it, become complacent, or risk it too often.


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You can also have a plan and use tools to make CQB much safer. Again I'm not suggesting you do CQB becaue you want to, but more because it makes sense to solve certain problems. It will likely come up, and the only way to make it safer when its time to go is to be good at it. That includes both knowing when it makes sense not to enter a structure, and knowing how you want to approach it if you think you should.
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:42 AM
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Regarding the small flares (in pans), I have a question: Do you throw the pans in first and then try to get the flares in...or do you light the flares, put them in the pans, and then toss the combo into the room?
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